Stop the AI 'cheating'

[malau 10]

If you used LokiKeys with God Mode on then you can see that the AI cheats alot - such as Tank/APC machine gun turrets not bothering to turn in your direction to shoot you, or that the AI can run AND shoot at the same time with 100% accuracy. Or that the AI soldiers can see and shoot through tents and trees whilst lying in long grass.

Without Lokikeys you don't get to appreciate what a raw deal you are getting as a player because you are dead.

Also, Tanks can, instantly, after being whacked by an AT-13 missile, machine gun you down from 600+ metres away (not with a prolonged burst even, but a single shot), whereas the tank crew should be concussed and confused.

[metalcraze 290]

AI can run AND shoot at the same time with 100% accuracy

Lies. The engine doesn't allow running and shooting for anyone.

Or that the AI soldiers can see and shoot through tents and trees whilst lying in long grass.

And why shouldn't they be able to shoot through the tent or a tree if they suspect an enemy to be there?

Set AI precision to lower values in your config if you find them too precise. Configs are there for a reason.

[dmarkwick 261]

If you used LokiKeys with God Mode on then you can see that the AI cheats alot - such as Tank/APC machine gun turrets not bothering to turn in your direction to shoot you, or that the AI can run AND shoot at the same time with 100% accuracy. Or that the AI soldiers can see and shoot through tents and trees whilst lying in long grass.

Without Lokikeys you don't get to appreciate what a raw deal you are getting as a player because you are dead.

Also, Tanks can, instantly, after being whacked by an AT-13 missile, machine gun you down from 600+ metres away (not with a prolonged burst even, but a single shot), whereas the tank crew should be concussed and confused.

ArmA AI does not cheat. There is plenty of examples showing this to be the case if you'd care to look. I don't know what this LokiKeys is, Google didn't return anything useful, but if it is itself some sort of ingame cheat-spy mechanism, you might be seeing instances where the game engine simply isn't rendering what it's calculating. If you'd care to use a more robust camera script you will see entirely different activity.

Or, you might be posting "crap that you've heard". Either way, you're wrong.

[sickboy 13]

AI 360 view possibilities inside vehicles has been found as bug and fixed/improved in one of the latest beta's.

[dmarkwick 261]

AI 360 view possibilities inside vehicles has been found as bug and fixed/improved in one of the latest beta's.

I've heard this, but it doesn't sound quite like the OP's description.

*edit*

Unless you mean this:

Also, Tanks can, instantly, after being whacked by an AT-13 missile, machine gun you down from 600+ metres away (not with a prolonged burst even, but a single shot), whereas the tank crew should be concussed and confused.

In which case I'd say that maybe it's the same thing.... but in any case the player under similar circumstances also doesn't suffer concussion, so not a cheat IMO. Maybe a missing feature... ;)

Edited July 25, 2011 by DMarkwick

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Well, I have observed AI machinegunners laying on the ground spewing bullets towards me (visible tracers) when I can clearly see they are oriented about 90° from the direction of fire.

But I more suspect bug in the visual system rather than cheating. Only place I know AI is kinda cheating is the system how they know they obtained their kill. Don't see it feasible any other way either.

[viper[cww] 14]

Loki'sKeys == Lost Key by Loki

Well, I have observed AI machinegunners laying on the ground spewing bullets towards me (visible tracers) when I can clearly see they are oriented about 90° from the direction of fire.

I get that all the time, and agree fully with the OP. Happens with vehicles and units, though it mostly occurs with units and distances at more then 300m and vehicles at distances less then 200m.

[suma 8]

;1989883']Loki'sKeys == Lost Key by Loki

I get that all the time' date=' and agree fully with the OP. Happens with vehicles and units, though it mostly occurs with units and distances at more then 300m and vehicles at distances less then 200m.[/quote']

Is this MP or SP? If it is SP and if it is frequent, as you write, would it be possible to create a repro? To me it seems like an impossible thing. (In MP it is possible, as in MP you what you see can be a bit different from what is, but in SP both seen and is always agree, and no entity in game can fire in a direction different than its weapons show).

[wipman 1]

Hi, it happens in MP, at random; i use to see it on EVO missions as are the only ArmA2 v1.10 fun coop like missions available that don't be a damn DOM mission, where this happens very often too. Can be seen in other standard coops too but i've never seen it on SP, since the ArmA2 v1.08. May be related to scripted units (groups), but i've never seen it too on vehicles created in the same way. Let's C ya

[CarlGustaffa 4]

For me, only in MP afaik. Dedicated server coop against server AI.

[hellfire257 3]

If the AI are better than you, you're going to have to adapt or face annihilation!

[malau 10]

Or, you might be posting "crap that you've heard". Either way, you're wrong.

You seem an angry guy. Let me explain what I meant by the term 'cheating' - back in the day 'cheating AI' was the description given to AI that 'knows' where the player is at all times, rather than it's 'knowledge' of the player's position being based upon on it's line of sight and 'hearing'.

Lies. The engine doesn't allow running and shooting for anyone.

"Lies" ? Well that's abit mean for a forum where we should be able to discuss as adults our differing experiences of playing the game. If you don't agree with me that's cool, I expected that of alot of people, but there's no need to be disrespectful and provocative.

You need to install 'Loki' and you'll see the AI doing all sorts of unfair things that BIS never intended you to see.

But also anyone, be warned, installing this addon just to play as God WILL totally ruin the game. It is meant for map testers.

Loki Lost Keys Link to Armaholic

[hellfire257 3]

I've never actually seen what you're referring to personally. Making a video of your observations might be a good idea. Coming up with a reproducible scenario would help the developers too.

[dmarkwick 261]

You seem an angry guy. Let me explain what I meant by the term 'cheating' - back in the day 'cheating AI' was the description given to AI that 'knows' where the player is at all times, rather than it's 'knowledge' of the player's position being based upon on it's line of sight and 'hearing'.

"Lies" ? Well that's abit mean for a forum where we should be able to discuss as adults our differing experiences of playing the game. If you don't agree with me that's cool, I expected that of alot of people, but there's no need to be disrespectful and provocative.

You need to install 'Loki' and you'll see the AI doing all sorts of unfair things that BIS never intended you to see.

But also anyone, be warned, installing this addon just to play as God WILL totally ruin the game. It is meant for map testers.

Loki Lost Keys Link to Armaholic

I have my own game cam addon, and I have spent many hours roaming about making sure stuff happened as I intended. Although I see many things that are odd, I've never seen AI cheating as you described. There is a good video that shows you what happens when you reveal yourself to an enemy, then teleport to another location. This video makes use of a small addon that allows you to view from the AI's point of view, shows where he's looking and where he thinks you are. The mission itself is available for download BTW and is very entertaining in itself :)

So no, the AI does not cheat. At least in the manner you described. It only goes by what it has experienced, and what it can predict. It never just "knows" unless the mission designer has made it so.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

So no, the AI does not cheat. At least in the manner you described. It only goes by what it has experienced, and what it can predict. It never just "knows" unless the mission designer has made it so.

Careful. This is a several months old bug which was recently resolved, and even shows why it happened. So no, it's not cheating, as in deliberate cheating. But it's still a bug that by many will be perceived as AI cheating.

[dmarkwick 261]

I can't help how people precieve things :D

[viper[cww] 14]

Is this MP or SP? If it is SP and if it is frequent, as you write, would it be possible to create a repro? To me it seems like an impossible thing. (In MP it is possible, as in MP you what you see can be a bit different from what is, but in SP both seen and is always agree, and no entity in game can fire in a direction different than its weapons show).

MP is when it happens mostly, I dont play SP much if at all, but for sake of advancement I'll play/record a few campaign missions and see if I can reproduce the effect...

[maturin 12]

By this point the glitches that give the AI an unfair advantage are well-documented. They are also few and far between. That never seems to stop excitable people misinterpreting what they see. With a game this complex I don't particularly blame them.

Most of the problems that do exist seem to be caused by MP. I've tried endlessly to break the AI and find out how it works. And it is always quite logical and fair in the end, clearly designed by human programmers.

[viper[cww] 14]

One time I recall sneaking behind an active abrams with his turret and commander's M240 facing the direction i was facing so gun would have to turn 180° to spot/shoot me, after placing my satchels on its arse might I add, I was killed by the commanders gun..... he was still facing the same direction and somehow managed to shoot through his own armour to kill me.... :D (My ping to the server was 50-60 which is hardly anything really....)