Statistic tracking for arma 3

[Alwarren 2766]

Common people, do you really think statistics will change the gameplay or bring the CoD crowd to ArmA ?!

One of the issues I had with a lot of servers in CoD 4 was that they "valued" kills more than achieving the goals. You got a good score for kills, but only a handful of points for e.g. disarming the bomb or defending the HQ. The result was that on these servers people were not playing the game unless it was a server where the owner/admin actually punished/kicked those. I remember seeing one guy through the spectator camera (he was the last guy in our team) just lying on the room of a house while the bomb was being planted, not even making a move. He was just lying there hoping to get a few more kills before the round ended.

If I had my will, games would not track kills at all, and would stress the importance of game modes and achieving mission goals. If a single kill in a game gives you more points than disarming the bomb, then yes, those that want to see their name up in the top spot of the statistics will try to kill and not bother with the game mode. The only reason why they don't play FFA is that they know that there are certain hotspots on the map where people have to go, and thus become easier sniper targets.

Certainly, the Counterstrike community was not happy about scoring being added to the game.

I am not saying that kill tracking/scoring will ruin the game. However, it will "educate" people to play for kills and distract from the mission goal. In a game mode like Headquarter (in the above CoD 4 example) kills should not be counted at all, or given so little weight that the achieving of a goal becomes the utmost importance. While the dedicated players WILL do that no matter what, the world is full of players that want to continuously compare the length of their genitals, and that is exactly the type of gamer that will spoil the game.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with wanting to play for kills in this or any other game. That's why there are Free For All and Team Deathmatch modes. But the emphasis on killing in game modes that aren't about killing as many players as possible is what bothers me.

Tracking how many kilometers you walked, how many bullets you fired, etc, is fine. Just not kills; or at the very least, make sure that playing a game mode or achieving goals is valued higher.

(and sorry for the length of this)

[bansku 10]

Howabout BIS exposing a decent (well detailed) API for collecting stats on server side. From there on, any 3rd party could create what ever kind of stats/ranking/blingbling they want. If it turns right and with a bit of luck, it might even promote the game and help selling for broader audience. Ok, im not such a fan of ranks (even more so if there is something locked up in the beginning) nor playing game just for some stats. On the other hand, some post game breafing analytics could turn out to be cool actually. Even more so if it emphasize team playing and team skills and team success (and failures too).

Ups:

1# BIS do not need to turn valuable time to think about actually stats implementation, only API (which they probably have to do anyway...just expose it externally with some docs and maybe minimal source library or something)

2# some 3rd party could invent something huge (like Bungie community in Halo Reach, no i do not play it myself at all...)

3# this might eventually satisfy both parties, those who do not like stats that much and those who are stats junkies (and wants those colorful commendations..all of them)

4# make a server option to turn API on/off

5# even today, some servers do stats collecting (i believe it is through battleye but im not sure)

Downs:

1# are there any if applying stats is volunteer and BIS do not need to take any time on this? (actually it would not change attitude from what it is currently, just expose some better, well mannered API)

2# community driven stuff can not be predicted and then obviously K/D for the masses will occur

Last but not least, this "feature" is not very high on priority list. Maybe even first make the game and then later on introduce API with a patch or something.

Edited June 7, 2011 by bansku
Forgot to say

[nuxil 2]

i would like the devs to improve the stats that are already logged by the server.

on our server we already log mission stats. for each mission. but this can be improved.

example of log from server..

class Session 
{ 
   mission="c&h120 Valhalla [s/1] Staroye v.0.98 beta"; 
   island="Chernarus"; 
   gameType="Hold"; 
   duration=3693.3762; 
   class Player1 
   { 
       name="foo"; 
       killsInfantry=3; 
       killsSoft=1; 
       killsArmor=0; 
       killsAir=1; 
       killsPlayers=3; 
       customScore=9; 
       killsTotal=19; 
       killed=4; 
   }; 
   class Player2 
   { 
       name="bar"; 
       killsInfantry=2; 
       killsSoft=0; 
       killsArmor=0; 
       killsAir=0; 
       killsPlayers=2; 
       customScore=15; 
       killsTotal=17; 
       killed=3; 
   }; 
   class Player3 
   { 
       name="moo"; 
       killsInfantry=3; 
       killsSoft=1; 
       killsArmor=0; 
       killsAir=0; 
       killsPlayers=3; 
       customScore=6; 
       killsTotal=11; 
       killed=2; 
   }; 
}; 

they should make more like this.. which also include which side the player was on. also when he connected/disconnected should be placed in here. if player was playing until end of round a NA or empty string else date/time is shown.

class Session 
{ 
   mission="Warfare 3 sided"; 
   island="Chernarus"; 
   gameType="Cti";
   gameStarted="2011-06-07 11:30:20" 
   duration=3693.3762;
   class Faction
   {
       class USMC
       { 
           class Player1 
           { 
               name="foo"; 
               killsInfantry=3; 
               killsSoft=1; 
               killsArmor=0; 
               killsAir=1; 
               killsPlayers=3; 
               customScore=9; 
               killsTotal=19; 
               killed=4;
               connected="2011-06-07 11:30:25";
               disconnected="NA"; 
           };
       };
       class RUS
       { 
           class Player2 
           { 
               name="bar"; 
               killsInfantry=2; 
               killsSoft=0; 
               killsArmor=0; 
               killsAir=0; 
               killsPlayers=2; 
               customScore=15; 
               killsTotal=17; 
               killed=3;
               connected="2011-06-07 12:12:12";
               disconnected="2011-06-07 12:15:00"; 
           };
       };
       class Guer
       { 
           class Player3 
           { 
               name="moo";
               killsInfantry=3; 
               killsSoft=1; 
               killsArmor=0; 
               killsAir=0; 
               killsPlayers=3; 
               customScore=6; 
               killsTotal=11; 
               killed=2;
               connected="2011-06-07 12:10:45";
               disconnected="NA"; 
           };
           class Player4 
           { 
               name="boo";
               killsInfantry=3; 
               killsSoft=1; 
               killsArmor=0; 
               killsAir=0; 
               killsPlayers=3; 
               customScore=6; 
               killsTotal=11; 
               killed=2;
               connected="2011-06-07 12:20:40";
               disconnected="2011-06-07 12:25:10"; 
           };

       };         
   };            
};

i still think a global stats tracking is wrong.

but im all for server specific stats.

so for the people who host a server. can deside them self if they want to parse out the stats from the logfile and uploade it to there website.

but a local stats profile would be fun.. i would also like to know how many Kilometers i have walked in arma on foot.

@ bansku . if they would use gamespy4 you would have the api you need to track stats.

Edited June 7, 2011 by nuxil

[bansku 10]

@ bansku . if they would use gamespy4 you would have the api you need to track stats.

Well, then it might be even simpler task than i originally thought.

I usually check out http://arma2.swec.se/server/list or similar game server browser to check out which CTI to join and also try to figure out which side needs more my "help" :). However, that stat is missing some vital information like which side each player is on. In server where there are a lot of people, it is awful (manual) task to sum up all points to see which side really is loosing.

Change in log structure proposed by you might even help in this balance problem too. Maybe some autobalanced scripts could be developed based on opfor/blufor/guerilla information.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Remove the scoreboard so you can't compare to others during the game, but can be nice to see after the fact or when you leave.

Then replace the statistics screen in the map with a tabbed interface, showing a ton of stats:

This game | Today | This Week | This Month | Grand Total

I don't care if k/d ratios are shown here, you can't compare to others at least during the game, without asking for a comparison. Should be enough to take away the score focus, but allows you to keep track of own progress.

[nuxil 2]

Remove the scoreboard so you can't compare to others during the game, .

this can already be done in arma2 by using expert settings..

people also keep on forgetting there is Statistics on the map as you pointed out..

so there is in fact 2 types of stats already in the game..

Edited June 7, 2011 by nuxil

[LJF 0]

Stats are horrible, and the DCS example isn't very good as it's not really a competitive environment. Also, it's miles above ArmA in realism and learning curve which helps stop the negative effects of statistics.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@nuxil: Yeah we've disabled it ourselves, on all difficulties. I don't mind the map statistics, as you can't compare. In fact I like it for keeping track of own progress. There are games where realism is thrown out the window anyway, or times when you're soloing waiting for others to show up.

I guess you could also suppress the 'i' key in missions, where you don't want scoreboard, even if scoreboard is activated on server. Like spacebar blocking in Domination. But since we have it turned off, it's never been a concern to try it out.

[Innomadic 10]

I like the scoreboard. Run at me.

...thats all though...

[tsb247 0]

I don't think the OP was implying to add unlocks or ranks; he didn't even mention it

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=120216

Well, there is this thread... :p

[*LK1* 10]

voted yes. would have stats to see specifical details of my game stile.

using a stat/rank/medal sistem in the proper way it could be a good solution to increase the teamwork ecc.

[no use for a name 0]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=120216

Well, there is this thread... :p

So what? I didn't know we were commenting on that thread..Did that thread have anything to do with this one?

And yet BIS has already confirmed in this video here that unlocks/achievements are not going to be implemented. :rolleyes:

Also, everyone against this seems to not realize that the actual military uses TONS of statistics for their procedures/rules/training.

[demonized 20]

Also, everyone against this seems to not realize that the actual military uses TONS of statistics for their procedures/rules/training.

that must be the sillyest reasoning ever for having ingame stats in Arma3 FPDR

*

If i wanted killer stats, id just fire up editor, create a mission, SP or MP and script in automated

killing, flying, driving, sniping, stealthing, jumping, climbing, swimming, exploding, dying, masturbating, civvi killing, building razing, repairing, refuelling, rearming etc etc etc for my playing unit.., leave it on for the night and next day i would be "ALMIGHTY GOD OF ARMA3".

Only way to control this online would be to remove the editor or drastically block the freedom to create whatever kind of mission and scripts you want.

So the stats are a big fail before even alive, but then again if its only client sided for personal usage with no whatsoever impact on play, its only yourself you are fooling.

[tsb247 0]

So what? I didn't know we were commenting on that thread..Did that thread have anything to do with this one?

And yet BIS has already confirmed in this video here that unlocks/achievements are not going to be implemented. :rolleyes:

Also, everyone against this seems to not realize that the actual military uses TONS of statistics for their procedures/rules/training.

Well, he did start that thread as well, so the two topics are obviously related in his mind anyway. However, I only mentioned it to simply point it out; not to discuss it any further here.

As for the real military using stats...

I doubt they care about K/D ratios, 'assists,' how many people a medic has healed, how many mines an engineer has diffused, etc.

What the military cares about are the overall number of casualties, the time it takes to accomplish a mission, and how organized the overall execution of a mission is (among other things). Hence, the, "After action review," feature in VBS2.

If we got an after action review feature here, that would be great! However, I would be heartbroken to see such things as K/D ratios and other things find their way in here. This is not an arcade shooter, and features found in arcade shooters generally have no place here. It's not about relating it to CoD or Battlefield. It's about keeping the franchise in it's niche. This is war simulation; meant to portray a plausible future warfare scenario. I don't see how stats such as those described by the OP are useful in achieving that overall goal.

Besides, if anyone really has their heart set on such things, some scripting in the editor could probably add stats fairly easily. There's no need for BI to add them when a modder could add them easily enough.

[rye1 21]

It's already in A2 with mods....

[5LEvEN 11]

Well, he did start that thread as well, so the two topics are obviously related in his mind anyway. However, I only mentioned it to simply point it out; not to discuss it any further here.

As for the real military using stats...

I doubt they care about K/D ratios, 'assists,' how many people a medic has healed, how many mines an engineer has diffused, etc.

What the military cares about are the overall number of casualties, the time it takes to accomplish a mission, and how organized the overall execution of a mission is (among other things). Hence, the, "After action review," feature in VBS2.

If we got an after action review feature here, that would be great! However, I would be heartbroken to see such things as K/D ratios and other things find their way in here. This is not an arcade shooter, and features found in arcade shooters generally have no place here. It's not about relating it to CoD or Battlefield. It's about keeping the franchise in it's niche. This is war simulation; meant to portray a plausible future warfare scenario. I don't see how stats such as those described by the OP are useful in achieving that overall goal.

Besides, if anyone really has their heart set on such things, some scripting in the editor could probably add stats fairly easily. There's no need for BI to add them when a modder could add them easily enough.

In my opinion, stats would not derail the arma series, nor would it make it more what it is. Scripting a single mission, is not global. I am talking about global stats.

Stats and leveling are not the same topic. That is why I made two threads. As I have posted many times now, I gave up on leveling... Yet I have not posted that on this thread, because they are different.

Stats for me is just to see what you have accomplished. In a way to give your self an idea about how much progress you have made within certain specifications.

As I have posted a while back on this thread... If stats are private and do not include kills and deaths, then I see no reason why someone would have a problem with them.

If you have some other problem please say so. Otherwise you're just restating what everyone else has said, which is irreverent if those issues are solved with what I mentioned.

[Trauma.au 10]

Lets just get accurate scoring before adding useless fluff like stat tracking.

[rye1 21]

Lets just get accurate scoring before adding useless fluff like stat tracking.

And to get kills for blowing up enemy shiz. I hate it when I blow a tank with a satchel and get -1.

[LJF 0]

As for the real military using stats...

I doubt they care about K/D ratios, 'assists,' how many people a medic has healed, how many mines an engineer has diffused, etc.

What the military cares about are the overall number of casualties, the time it takes to accomplish a mission, and how organized the overall execution of a mission is (among other things). Hence, the, "After action review," feature in VBS2.

If we got an after action review feature here, that would be great! However, I would be heartbroken to see such things as K/D ratios and other things find their way in here. This is not an arcade shooter, and features found in arcade shooters generally have no place here. It's not about relating it to CoD or Battlefield. It's about keeping the franchise in it's niche. This is war simulation; meant to portray a plausible future warfare scenario. I don't see how stats such as those described by the OP are useful in achieving that overall goal.

Exactly, the military is about group effort, the individual is unimportant in the grand scheme of things, even in terms of special forces it's the mission and combined forces that matter.

I'd like to see scores only for units perhaps, so in MP instead of the current individual scores, they are added into groups like the squads, platoons or companies.

[metalcraze 290]

In my opinion, stats would not derail the arma series, nor would it make it more what it is. Scripting a single mission, is not global. I am talking about global stats.

They will. We can't find a way how to disable stupid statistics here which show how many people you have killed on the map screen no matter what the difficulty (and help confirm the kill in a very cheater-ish way) is and you are talking about pushing it further to ridiculous levels.

Anything that makes people kill more has no place in this game.

This game isn't about being leet. It's about the teamwork. The lack of global stats makes sure that the latter is a priority.

Stats for me is just to see what you have accomplished. In a way to give your self an idea about how much progress you have made within certain specifications.

Why do you care?

I care about having a good time. I don't really care if I do 4 kills or 22 kills during the mission or if I ran 10km on foot as long as my team gets the job done with minimum casualties because that's what makes missions fun, not the "guise I killed 1000 people I'm so leeet"

As I have posted a while back on this thread... If stats are private and do not include kills and deaths, then I see no reason why someone would have a problem with them.

Even if they have no kills/deaths they will still encourage people to do whatever it is in them.

At least you didn't start a thread about including achievements.

[andersson 285]

even if I personally dont care about stats I can see why it would be interesting and fun. But I'm afraid that it would distract me the same way as the kill scoreboard does today. If its disabled I play the mission with my friends, if its on I cant help but try to get a higher kill stat... Dont know why.

Anyway. Stats would not reflect me as a player anyway. As I make alot of missions it also means alot of playtesting. So if a retry a scenario I maybe kill a tank 10-20 times just to see how the scripts behave and so on, also alot of situations that could be considered as cheating as I give myself great advantages just to see how the scenarios unfolds.

So the stats would be of no use of me in anyway.

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

I dont want them to spend to much time on stuff like this, but I remember a game called

where the end of round screen had loads of stats for the current session which went far beyond just the kill stats and in that way also rewarded support roles with similar recognition.

While not a game breaker, I think its cool to see who was the best at "insert stuff". Who drove the longest that round, who flew the longest, who scored most points, who died the most, who killed the most, who camped (stood still) the most and so on.

Its funny when you in some games can deduct that the player with the most kills and fewest deaths also didnt move a inch. :)

[5LEvEN 11]

They will. We can't find a way how to disable stupid statistics here which show how many people you have killed on the map screen no matter what the difficulty (and help confirm the kill in a very cheater-ish way) is and you are talking about pushing it further to ridiculous levels.

Anything that makes people kill more has no place in this game.

This game isn't about being leet. It's about the teamwork. The lack of global stats makes sure that the latter is a priority.

Why do you care?

I care about having a good time. I don't really care if I do 4 kills or 22 kills during the mission or if I ran 10km on foot as long as my team gets the job done with minimum casualties because that's what makes missions fun, not the "guise I killed 1000 people I'm so leeet"

Even if they have no kills/deaths they will still encourage people to do whatever it is in them.

At least you didn't start a thread about including achievements.

Out of all of the stuff you mentioned only one was not an issue about kills and deaths. The others are useless because I said no kills and deaths. So what did you gain out of that, nothing.

I don't care about kills and deaths. So your argument about why you think I care and the statement about what you care about is invalid. Of course we like to have fun... Isn't that the point of games? :rolleyes:

Here is an example on how I would use statistics. If I wanted to see how much progress I have made flying within a certain amount of time, I could just look at how many hours I have flown and then asses my own flying capabilities. Same goes for anything else (infantry, crewman, pilot, ect.)

The only new thing you added to the forum was the following:

Even if they have no kills/deaths they will still encourage people to do whatever it is in them.

Which to be honest, I don't think a lot of people would just fly or walk aimlessly to get a big number for that. So again, this is a pointless statement.

[nuxil 2]

im not a big fan of global stats, altho i find it fun to log the stats for our server.

i think this is the best solutions. since if people want to check out the stats. or improve there stats or what ever. they can go play on servers who does log stats.

now.

i suggested that the bis improve the server log that the server generates after each mission.

i had some more thought about it and i noticed. that even with my suggestion. on page 8 isnt good enough.

example: 3 players with name "foo" connects.

we have no way telling who is who when reading the stats in the server log.

example: where. player "foo" connects and plays a bit usmc against player "bar" on rus.

player "foo" disconnects and a new player with name "foo" connects, same problem raises.. which "foo" is which.

example: 2 players are playing warfare. both have same name. "foo"

player "foo" on west disconnects. and rejoins on east team. again ..which foo is which,

problem can be solved by adding i pid to the class Player.

class Session 
{ 
   mission="Warfare 3 sided"; 
   island="Chernarus"; 
   gameType="Cti";
   gameStarted="2011-06-07 11:30:20" 
   duration=3693.3762;
   class Faction
   {
       class USMC
       { 
           class Player1 
           { 
               name="foo"; 
               pid = 1234567;
               connected="2011-06-07 11:30:25";
               disconnected="NA"; 
               killsInfantry=3; 
               killsSoft=1; 
               killsArmor=0; 
               killsAir=1; 
               killsPlayers=3; 
               customScore=9; 
               killsTotal=19; 
               killed=4;
           };
       };
       class RUS
       { 
           class Player2 
           { 
               name="foo";
               pid = 7654321;
               connected="2011-06-07 12:12:12";
               disconnected="2011-06-07 12:15:00";  
               killsInfantry=2; 
               killsSoft=0; 
               killsArmor=0; 
               killsAir=0; 
               killsPlayers=2; 
               customScore=15; 
               killsTotal=17; 
               killed=3;
           };
       };
       class Guer
       { 
           class Player3 
           { 
               name="foo";
               pid = 765123;
               connected="2011-06-07 12:10:45";
               disconnected="NA"; 
               killsInfantry=3; 
               killsSoft=1; 
               killsArmor=0; 
               killsAir=0; 
               killsPlayers=3; 
               customScore=6; 
               killsTotal=11; 
               killed=2;
           };
       };         
   };            
};

also there is no need to generate new classes for each faction the player has played on, this can be a section in the cass itself.

....
   ....
           class Player3 
           { 
               name="foo";
               pid = 765123;
               faction = "USMC"
               connected="2011-06-07 12:10:45";
               disconnected="NA"; 
               killsInfantry=3; 
               killsSoft=1; 
               killsArmor=0; 
               killsAir=0; 
               killsPlayers=3; 
               customScore=6; 
               killsTotal=11; 
               killed=2;
           };

maybe i should put all this in a3 wishlist. but since there is already a thread about stats. im using this one instead..

[Windexglow 10]

I've already posted before. But I'll add my cents again.

Any type of kill should be excluded - stats should be local (no one else sees them, they're just for you. Yes you can exploit, but who are you fooling?). Stats would be number of times firing X weapon. Average distance weapon is fired at. Longest hit with X weapon. Average life span. Distance walked. Wheels destroyed. Rounds passed over your head.

Ectect. I wouldn't want it to be a tab-screen of KDR of everyone on the server, but something to look at as the game loads or something mundane.