Nobody plays anymore, atleast for MP

[Infam0us 10]

I play 3 times a week PvP with about 12-15 guys on organised matches, like others on here have suggested private communities are the way forward :)

[76 0]

I like others on here have suggested private communities are the way forward :)

Closed/private communities are definitely NOT the way forward...

Free, Open and Public is the way forward, closed/exclusive mens

clubs have produced nothing but for its members.

There are always enough people in AA2 MP.

There are just not many people who want to constantly get TK'ed by morons (aka public gaming). See the difference?

HEY Bob.... I only EVER play on public server... I'm not a member of a

fucking clan and lots of ppl are the same, so its all I/we have.

But where the fuck do you get off basically calling every public server shit

and full of TK'ing "morons". Don't be such an asshole.

Are you actually trying to discredit public servers, which my little winy

friend is trying to discredit BI.

Back the fuck up mate.

Except PR for BF2 is primitive compared to AA2 and doesn't offer anything even close to what I get in this game.

Oh... and let me proof this for you...

"Except for BF2 is primitive IMO compared to A2 and doesn't

offer anythink even close to what I get out of this game.

PS. before you say "ohhh ban stick blah blah" I know what I'm doing and

the consequences.

Edited June 3, 2011 by 76

[Steakslim 1]

Sector Control, Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch, Capture The Flag, etc.

Or even Celery's gametypes like Road Rage, Camel Rage, etc.

inb4 typical comments of "Go play COD", "Can't be bothered with the n00bs who play those types", "Have fun with the hax". :rolleyes:

I've seen fewer cheaters in those gametypes for Arma 2 than I have in every other gametype for Arma 2 being played right now.

Fair enough. Having played the previous PR for BF2, I kinda prefer it's PvP over deathmatch style games under any engine, I just don't prefer it's use of the BF2 engine. As for it's game modes, I like them not so much as a preference for ArmA2 so much as I'm genuinely bored with most DM, TDM, CTF in games unless I'm playing with some friends who prefer it.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Steakslim

[PuFu 4600]

rant

You want something changed? Get your own server up (alone or with some mates) and do whatever you please with it.

Public play is provided by people who pay a damn fee montly for keeping these servers up, so it is their rights to do whatever they please with it, and play whatever missions they want to.

I am so fucking sick of people demanding things without even thinking of the possibility of getting their own hands dirty..

even if you admit it or not, private games are on a completely other level. Better or worse, everyone can have an opinion. But as a general rule, you can't really compare the two

[Atkins 10]

I doubt no one doubts that generally private clan games are better than regular public play.

But I still insist that it is not the answer to the whole general problem and it definitely is not "the way forward".

To Zipper, PR has several game types, at least in BF2 engine. Those may not be to your likings but they seem to draw quite many ppl to PR at least. PR is just a mere mod but at any given time it has more ppl playing pure PvP game than A2 even though I would imagine it would be the other way around considering what can be done with A2.

I just wish BI would learn from these rants in here that there something wrong with the game. Find out what is holding back the mp and fix it.

Though I might be in the wrong place, asking wrong stuff. If BI designed A2 to be mostly played as a out-of-body-experience-with-crosshair shooting warping bots from hill tops while using TS then ignore everything I said... cos it definitely has succeeded in that area.

[PuFu 4600]

Though I might be in the wrong place, asking wrong stuff. If BI designed A2 to be mostly played as a out-of-body-experience-with-crosshair shooting warping bots from hill tops while using TS then ignore everything I said... cos it definitely has succeeded in that area.

You still don't get it...BIS is NOT responsible about the missions that are played, or they way servers are maintained. I have actually never seen any of the box mission on any of the servers.

There are plenty of PvP games out there, i guess the reason A2 is more coop that pvp is that there is no other game out there that is able to do what A2 does.

regarding PR: that is not a game, it is a full conversion mod. But i guess is what you want out of A2 is a BF game withing A2 engine, right? Because you keep going back to the same things over and over again.

What is holding the MP experience for you then? It would be a lot more productive to actually say what is the issue that all those rants posted around, comparing games that have no similarities besides being able to move around in 1st person with a gun and having some vehicles to work with.

Okey these were some of the answers i got so far;

* Ppl don't know what they are doing in public PvP

* They don't use TS/VON

* They TK

* They lolz

* It is a chaos

Some A2 players still believe that domination, evolution and some other missions are designed by BIS - wrong

1. Ppl don't know what they are doing in public games (pvp and coops alike) - there is the i don't wanna read all that syndrome, and not only with the games. A2 is not one of the quick fix games, where you can jump in and out (with some pvp game modes, that is possible though).

2. VON still has issues, and it is most of the time switched off.

3. TK happens because - they can't tell apart friendly from enemy, or because of the mentality of being able to shoot them all. There is no friendly fire switch allowing some sort of control over those TKs (it can be scripted though).

Now, BI should look into why these type of things happen.

Why ppl don't know what to do or who to shoot in public? Is there perhaps some room for improvements for the mission description itself or the way this info is laid out to players. Or perhaps something else?

Doubt BIS can do anything about how custom missions are designed, played, managed or the way a mission designer chooses to lay down the description...

They are realising a sandbox game. Some choose to play long coops, some to play small ones, some small pvp games, and other cops and robbers. There is no right and wrong, you make your own game within the engine.

Edited June 4, 2011 by PuFu

[Alwarren 2767]

But I still insist that it is not the answer to the whole general problem and it definitely is not "the way forward".

Personally (and I might have this completely wrong because I am not a very active online player) I think the biggest issue is anonymity, which is also why community servers run better.

Yesterday, I thought "what the heck" when I saw Black Ops was free-to-play over the weekend. Installed it, went onto a server. Just the first one I found, really. I logged off a few minutes later. Why? Campers. Glitching. Lack of teamplay. Playing for kills instead of playing for the objective.

Same with BC2. Sometimes you find a server were you actually have squadmates that use their brain, and usually in that case one side dominates because they work together. But most of the time, you already see at least half of your side with ghillie suits and sniper rifles, and you know that this round will suck because everybody is playing for kills and will completely ignore the goal of the mission, and just lie somewhere to baserape.

If you are on the internet, nobody will know you're your dog.

In an organized group, things look different. Most of the time people know each other somewhat, and therefore treat each other completely different.

The only real solution to the issue I think is an all-seeing "dungeon master" type observer, or at least players that are also admins and can (and do) act on such cases. Someone mentioned taking the chopper and flying off alone. This is a prime example. Players like that just ruin the game for the others. All of a sudden all transports are gone and you have to either wait for a new one to spawn or walk all the way. In the meantime, the guy that took the first chopper most likely got brutally murdered trying to capture a missile silo, and is back wanting another chopper. I've seen people TK just to get the vehicle. So the result is, the decent players stay at the base because one fool is constantly crashing choppers.

As long as people like this exist and a game or supervisor doesn't enforce a different behavior, public gaming will be like that - it's a gamble, and whether you enjoy your evening of play or not is completely up to the roll of the dice. It doesn't matter whether it is CoD, BFBC2, or ARMA.

[76 0]

I misread 76s post and went off on a tangent

Where am I demanding stuff? did you read my post mate? pretty sure I was

defending public servers... I'll defend clan and any other server too... just

happened we're talking about PvP ones... right?!

When someone narrow sighted person tries to claim all public servers are full of morons who TK etc

etc blah bla blah, I'm bloody well going to correct them.

So anyway wtf are you having a go at me for?

[Infam0us 10]

Closed/private communities are definitely NOT the way forward...

Free, Open and Public is the way forward, closed/exclusive mens

clubs have produced nothing but for its members.

Private communities are not closed or exclusive, least not the ones I play in. Anyone is free to join. Organised, pre-arranged matches are much more satisfying than those played spur on the moment with little thought.

[jblackrupert 14]

I just wish BI would learn from these rants in here that there something wrong with the game. Find out what is holding back the mp and fix it.

There is a "Why isn't this game more popular?" thread that has had tons of suggestions and the issues causing low MP counts. http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=94503

There is of course a smaller but very vocal crowd who's goal it seems is to keep Arma as user unfriendly as possible even suggesting making it even worse to keep out the so called "COD crowd".

The people who suck the fun of of things.

[metalcraze 290]

HEY Bob.... I only EVER play on public server... I'm not a member of a

fucking clan and lots of ppl are the same, so its all I/we have.

I'm not a member of any clan too.

That doesn't stop me from playing with them.

Clans are not closed clubs for the selected few and are not being run by some elite society.

Clans are just a way for people to play together in an organized fashion with some standards completely missing from public play. Like at least forcing TeamSpeak on every single player on the server.

But where the fuck do you get off basically calling every public server shit

and full of TK'ing "morons". Don't be such an asshole.

I had my share of public gaming.

From old CTIs and A&Ds in OFP to all your PvPs and Domis - and there is never any kind of coordinated team work on public servers.

There are always people who run around about their own business, there are always people who have trouble distinguishing, say, brown marine from a green russkie, nobody will ever back you up.

Now compare to a random clan server. Let's take an Attack & Defend type of PvP mission as an example. You come to a clan's Teamspeak. People form teams, select commanders, go through tactics in their own channels on the map screen. The game starts - defending side chooses which defensive positions to take, maybe send out a few scouts in anticipation of the attack.

The attacking side at the same time tries to flank and get as close as possible without being detected.

There is always your teammate covering your back.

And as a result even PvP gets tactical and has a proper teamwork.

In comparison Public PvP offers nothing but chaos and frag-kiddie-lone wolfs.

Are you actually trying to discredit public servers, which my little winy

friend is trying to discredit BI.

I fail to see the connection. Besides I'm a big advocate of ArmA on other forums where people want to play tactical games.

PS. before you say "ohhh ban stick blah blah" I know what I'm doing and

the consequences.

I'm not a little kid who will go crying "moderatuh!" if that's what you mean. I know the meaning of "heated discussions" :>

[Atkins 10]

Yes, as I've said earlier in this thread that answers to the OP's question can be found in the "Why is this game not more popular?"-thread, as well my speculation why it is so, and as well my reasons why I don't play A2 mp as much as i would like to. To be honest this topic is redundant and could me merged with the other topic.

To Pufu, I did not say that I wanted BF game within A2. Whatever that even means. (I haven't played BF2 actually, just PR and FH2). I was using PR as an example how public gaming can be fun, organized and relatively easy to get in to and still drive towards realistic/immerse gameplay in huge maps with a lot of human players if the game developers decide to do it so without resorting to the "join a clan"-argument. By no means is PR perfect.

But seriously, PR has solved/alleviated many of the problems that were mentiond earlier like example;

The VOIP/TS issue is a bit alleviated; only 1 common Mumble server for every game server out there (each server has its own channel). This lowers the threshold to connect cos you don't have to find out ip address to every server you connect. This may seem stupid how ppl are so lazy for pathological players but casual players (which make the bulk of players) are indeed "lazy" (or ignorant) in that matter.

The current game mode is explained while connecting to the server. It pretty much takes conscious effort to not read this info.

And in general the easiness of connecting to a game. Find a server, click it and play. A2 server hunting usually ends up (if not to the fact that there is no PvP action going on) in the announcement that you are missing some weird ass mods/addons.

Basically anything that lowers the threshold for casual gamer to engage in a game increases the popularity of the game. Note that this does not mean that the game has to be easy to master and arcadish.

[PuFu 4600]

To Pufu, I did not say that I wanted BF game within A2. Whatever that even means. (I haven't played BF2 actually, just PR and FH2). I was using PR as an example how public gaming can be fun, organized and relatively easy to get in to and still drive towards realistic/immerse gameplay in huge maps with a lot of human players if the game developers decide to do it so without resorting to the "join a clan"-argument. By no means is PR perfect.

Then you are also aware that a game released by DICE/EA is in a whole different world when it comes to sales. PLUS:

* BF2 (no matter what mods) is a MP centered game. A2 isn't.

* If even 20% of the BF2 buyers are using PR, then the numbers are well higher than A2/OA combined.

The VOIP/TS issue is a bit alleviated; only 1 common Mumble server for every game server out there (each server has its own channel). This lowers the threshold to connect cos you don't have to find out ip address to every server you connect. This may seem stupid how ppl are so lazy for pathological players but casual players (which make the bulk of players) are indeed "lazy" (or ignorant) in that matter.

That is impossible in A2. Remember that server control for BF2 is a lot different than with A2 (PR for A2 won't be able to take the same route they did with servers in BF2). Each clan/squad community owns a TS3 or mumble server (if you ask me, TS3 is well above mumble). Not everyone forces ppl to jump on TS3, but its members are on a lot, not only when they play.

The right thing to do from BIS is to sort out the VOIP for good. Then maybe there would be some more coms in public servers, without a need of additional software.

The current game mode is explained while connecting to the server. It pretty much takes conscious effort to not read this info.

Yeah well, the in your face approach won't work in A2, since there is NO specific game mod. Anyone can make a hybrid, or invent their own. The briefing is most of the times self explanatory, there are even html/txt/pdf files for some. It's not BIS or mission designer fault ppl can't read or are lazy asses!

And in general the easiness of connecting to a game. Find a server, click it and play. A2 server hunting usually ends up (if not to the fact that there is no PvP action going on) in the announcement that you are missing some weird ass mods/addons.

I agree that there should be a better MP server browser, including favorites and a better server filter. More over, since addons and mods are a real part of BIS games (and i don't see that changing anytimes soon), there should be a automated way to download them (even though there are community made tools available such as six updater and yoma). Maybe A3 will do just that.

Basically anything that lowers the threshold for casual gamer to engage in a game increases the popularity of the game. Note that this does not mean that the game has to be easy to master and arcadish.

without any sort of elitism, the average casual gamer of today is the type i would rather not have around in MP games, public or private.

there is a very big difference between making the MP part of arma more accessible (which unfortunately nowadays means dumbing things down for your casual gamer - see all the NO-dedicated server support games like BFBC, COD are taking) , and taking the in_your_face_approach!

[bwc153 10]

PuFu, Gotta remember the 'dumbing things down' isn't as much of a thing of making stuff 'easier' to use, but just to milk more money out of people for less work, as the less features - the less time you need programming (or less programmers), and the less time you need bug-fixing, etc....

I mean it is CoD you're talking about after all... New Sequel every year consisting of 75% of the existing game.

[76 0]

without any sort of elitism, the average casual gamer of today is the type i would rather not have around in MP games, public or private.

there is a very big difference between making the MP part of arma more accessible (which unfortunately nowadays means dumbing things down for your casual gamer - see all the NO-dedicated server support games like BFBC, COD are taking) , and taking the in_your_face_approach!

Sorry, there is defiantly elitist there.

[PuFu 4600]

Sorry, there is defiantly elitist there.

no worries, i am not the one who fails to see how the average gamer behaves today (as in the one playing all those generic fps for 2-3 weeks the moving one, as well as other times of games).

I am entitled to an opinion just as you are. Plus i get to run my server anyway i like it

[metalcraze 290]

Sorry, there is defiantly elitist there.

There's no elitism. It's the truth

We constantly have posts "why doesn't ArmA play like Battlefield yet?! BIS needs to fix*cough*dumb down*cough* it!" popping up. No need to deny it.

Do you see any of the so called "elitists" on BF forums constantly whining about how BF doesn't play like ArmA yet?

Edited June 10, 2011 by metalcraze

[tacticalnuggets 24]

no worries, i am not the one who fails to see how the average gamer behaves today (as in the one playing all those generic fps for 2-3 weeks the moving one, as well as other times of games).

I am entitled to an opinion just as you are. Plus i get to run my server anyway i like it

So you run your server empty pufu? Are you the kind of guy who runs and arma 2 dedicated server and sits in the server alone running around empty towns, meanwhile nobody can get on because of a password that reads "casualplayersaredumb"

[EDcase 87]

Calm down guys...

The 'problem' with public servers is that there are alot of new players who don't know what they are doing or how ARMA works. The have become learning areas for new players.

Some will try learn how to play properly and get on with the mission. Maybe even joining a squad to play together.

BUT others will get bored and want instant action so they start to destroy things and TK.

The problem is that ARMA is not an instant action game (in general) and there is just too much of a mix of players in public servers to have a proper game. Its also very complicated to learn and this frustrates many (younger?) players.

I think BIS really needs to improve the in-game comms and server lobby. Mods are an integral part of playing ARMA but there should be options to auto-download them built in.

Appart from that I don't see how BIS can imporve the play aspect. They are improving the animation system which is one of the big gripes for PvP so maybe that will improve in ARMA3

Edited June 10, 2011 by EDcase

[Drew 10]

arma 2 is not a game for pvp, im sorry but it's the truth. I myself don't enjoy the combat, the only real combat i do enjoy is the warfare mode other than that it becomes a nonstop corner camp fest, or grenade fest on CTF maps, not my style of gameplay nor is it for most others.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

arma 2 is not a game for pvp, im sorry but it's the truth. I myself don't enjoy the combat, the only real combat i do enjoy is the warfare mode other than that it becomes a nonstop corner camp fest, or grenade fest on CTF maps, not my style of gameplay nor is it for most others.

So just because you dont like arma2 pvp, its not the game mode for arma2. Hmmm. Well articulated.

[KorpeN 0]

ArmA 2 is the best PvP game ever. And there isn't more entertaining thing than make strategies, plans so you can win a human enemy which is unpredictable and add more realism for a war simulator. Playing with bots it's not realistic. Maybe these guys who blames PvPers are the ones who get killed before they even connect to the server. Also public servers are not the perfect way to play but still are a solution if you want some quick fun after you return from your job. Organized PvP it's perfect ( I myself played a lot clan matches) but it's not easy for everyone to be in a clan (lack of time, wife, kids) and in coclusion it's no need to be like a doctor's appointment. You must have the choice to play the moment you want.

[jblackrupert 14]

Making things easier doesn't always mean dumbing down.

Getting on ladders, into vehicles, opening doors etc can be a serious pain in the ass

especially if the vehicle is bouncing even slightly.

You see it almost everytime a bunch of people are trying to load into a helicopter

a couple of people make it in smoothly and the rest are looking around like they're trying to fit a key into a lock in the dark

or they dropped a contact lens.

Edited June 10, 2011 by jblackrupert

[76 0]

arma 2 is not a game for pvp, im sorry but it's the truth. I myself don't enjoy the combat, the only real combat i do enjoy is the warfare mode other than that it becomes a nonstop corner camp fest, or grenade fest on CTF maps, not my style of gameplay nor is it for most others.

What a wank, thats YOUR truth Drew, no one elses so don't speak of

it as if its what everyone believes because it ain't.

Don't like persistent campers/snipers... no one does but it makes

you a farrrrr better player trying to avoid or sneak up on them and the

satisfaction for it is nothing you'll find in coop...

Seems to me you just cant cut the mustard and get pwned on PvP hence

why you hate it so much.

There is a ton of PvP players getting a half-arsed fix for their PvP needs

from CTI or they just play boring coop to get by etc but they'd love a

dedicated real PvP server to hang out on. So dont think PvP players are only

a tiny section of this community, they just don't really have anywhere else to go

Sure there are tards that will always be tards but this weak ass generation

has to learn to TAKE THE GOOD WITH THE BAD.

Calm down guys...

The 'problem' with public servers is that there are alot of new players who don't know what they are doing or how ARMA works. The have become learning areas for new players.

True, I just see a serious lack of tolerance toward new players and to me

that is a definitely a form of elitism.

Its a hard game to master and I'm more than happy to be TK'd a few times

etc while someone learns, releases some frustrations from the steep

learning curve and eventually grows and becomes a respected/quality

member of the ArmA community.

Can you elitists see that no new blood = a dead community sooner or

later.... but you elitists don't seem to care about cutting off your noses to

spite ya face.... thats what I consider NOOB.

Making things easier doesn't always mean dumbing down.

+1 Bloody spot on, and anyway... who the f'k said PvP players wanted

it dumbed down??? cause they are not speaking for me.

Edited June 10, 2011 by 76

[kylania 568]

It's not all on the vets either. New players need to not be morons if they expect a warm reaction. Learning what ArmA is and is not will go away and playing as a team even further.

When they come on a server and whine and crash vehicles because they can't fly and refuse to get on TeamSpeak to coordinate, then yeah, we'll treat them like the trash they are. But if they show half a brain and realize they need to learn to play as a team then sure, they'll be accepted and well treated.

Sadly it's maybe 1 in 3 new players that I've met recently who actually play seriously vs just being a dolt. That's without PvP too, with PvP noobs I bet it's 1 in a 100. ;)