They better have female soldiers...

[dm 9]

I just want people to cut to the chase, stick to the topic and not cloud the topic with any 'the game doesn't need them coz they're different'

They're not needed in the game because when its hidden away under all the body armour, load bearing equipment and baggy uniforms they look no different to the men. The only way they'd look any different is if they werent all geared up, but were in PT kit or just underarmour, and anyone asking for that in game is even more guilty of sexualising them than those saying "we dont need them coz they're different".

ALL we DO NEED is:

Female head models

Height adjustment

BMI adjustment

Then you can have male and female combatants until you're blue in the face.

Anything else (OMG BOOBS, tiny shorts & tshirts or whatever) is just as sexist as the "we dont need them cause they cant fight" bullshit.

Edit to add:

Also, lol at the thread title... "They better have female soldiers..." or what? You're going to cry about it?

[STALKERGB 6]

Not to plug my own trade but modders could always add it in if it's not there (I know there has been very little for ARMA2/OA but still). I think although *generally* the only really difference is indeed the head, there are still some subtle differences that it might look weird without. Pretty much covered by DM with height and BMI though.

To use the ARMA2 attempts as an example, sticking female heads on the models does sort of work, it's just they do look slightly as though they have been drinking testosterone out of their camelbaks instead of water :) Again that's mainly down to the BMI and Height. Anyway sticking with what DM said, in my attempts at creating decent female models I've found it very hard to stay away from the obvious ways of making them look female (of which there are examples below).

As you can see I've removed the body armour so the female shape is far more obvious but it's not exactly practical for combat lol

Anyway, yeah, basically a VERY long winded way of saying I'd also like BMI and height as variables :)

[pathetic_berserker 4]

They're not needed in the game because when its hidden away under all the body armour.....

I get your point, and your right. If we only had to concern ourselves with pure soldiers theres sweet FA to be bothered about esp' condidering solutions such as Stalkers above, or Schaps' female heads for those that like the extra level of imersion. But you when take into account the attcahed poll, the topic broadens and the shortfalls of using anything other than uniformed miliatry personel for anything becomes glaringly apparent. To the point where I wonder why they bothered including unplayable civi's in the game at all.

And I can't see how they could not include playable civ's in A3 if the indications are correct and there is an element of a resistance movement, and/or undercover subterfuge (wher stuff like body armour becomes problematic), and there is plenty of good factual arguments both current and historical to include females particularly in this sort of arena. And not so very good ones against the idea.

Sure they could continue to drag thier feet on this and maintain the path of sidelining females except for the token background visual or cowering hostage objective. Or they could breakout from the generic looking boys club and go for something better. With some emerging competition in the mil sim arena there may not be an A4, and I don't want to wait that long to see this done

Anyway I think I've pretty much run out of shit to say on the matter. A3 is still a long way off, and I'm expecting plenty of juicy stuff from BIS in the lead up. Heres hoping better character models, some variety, and females are included.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Pathetic_Berserker

[rye1 21]

Not to plug my own trade but

:clap: Plug it all you want, that's awesome.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

The only way they'd look any different is if they werent all geared up, but were in PT kit or just underarmour

Well perhaps that is not outside the realm of ArmA 3. :rolleyes:

[ryguy 10]

Well perhaps that is not outside the realm of ArmA 3. :rolleyes:

HA! Oh and BTW DM, wonderful point, putting boobs on women characters would be so sexual and sick! I mean, it's not like they have them in real life!

Besides, without arma 3, where am I gonna get my "material"?

[Gir 10]

Man, I don't read a thread for a week and all the chauvinists come out of the woodwork.

I'm not sure where these sexist guys come from, I can't say I've met them in real life, perhaps they come to us via a wormhole from 1966? Haha no, I know, they're cowardly little mice when it comes to expressing their views anywhere but the internet.

Would be great if femanazis could just stop bumping this stupid thread.

There won't be female soldiers in Arma3, just deal with it...

Operative;2051002']

I'm against female soldiers in ARMA3 because:

- Male soldiers are averse to the presence of female soldiers in the battlefield (it distracts them and' date=' in case of death, is way more shocking. Also, if captured, there's an increased risk of sexual abuse by the captors).

- There's the danger of abuse and rape (by soldiers in the same unit) because of the nature of modern deployments.

- Women are more prone to injuries and fatigue.[/quote']

Inane, victim blaming.

Operative;2050886']

And representing them in a game' date=' so the pervs can shoot them, is really helping. Thumbs up for you.[/quote']

Ridiculous, I don't even know where to start.

Boobs' date=' women's bodies are purely sexual objects by being represented

[/quote']

Grow up.

I don't even want to read more pages back.

---------- Post added at 17:07 ---------- Previous post was at 16:52 ----------

Oh hey, I should reply to this one, it was addressed to me!

Operative;2048914']You are in a convoy. Suddenly it's attacked. There are several wounded soldiers in the vehicles and scattered in the ground. You are near two of them' date=' and have only a chance to save them. You never met either of them. One is a male and the other is a female, both badly injured. Who to save?[/quote']

Whichever had a higher likelihood of surviving, as dictated by triage.

Operative;2048914']

It's not about killing either gender being moral' date=' but how letting a woman die is immoral.[/quote']

I don't want to be patronising here, but you really don't get it.

Women are not fundamentally more (or less) special than men, they are not deserving of better (or worse) treatment.

It is no less moral to let a woman die than it is to let a man die.

Operative;2048914']

It's easy to say when you are far from it: there's much more emotional appeal in saving the woman' date=' men can't simply ignore it.[/quote']

Your framing is fundamentally sexist, you assume that the person you are addressing is male, you assume that the soldier who is there to save ONLY ONE of their comrades is male.

Operative;2048914']

So let's bring it to the next level: there are child soldiers all over the world. Would you be confortable shoting a child holding a gun in ARMA3?

I wouldn't be comfortable shooting a person irl, but I do it all the time in videogames. Given a self-defense motive I'd shoot a child in a videogame, it's not real.

[-GR-Operative 10]

Ridiculous, I don't even know where to start.

Grow up.

I don't even want to read more pages back.

I really don't want to come back to this discussion, but how can you give an opinion if you didn't read it all? Taking words out of context is pretty easy.

Also, coward mice? You don't ever know from where I am, you have no clue of how I am and what I do. You are taking thing too much personally.

Just to add, I will not post in this thread anymore. Any issues please PM me.

[Gir 10]

Operative;2053627']I really don't want to come back to this discussion' date=' but how can you give an opinion if you didn't read it all? Taking words out of context is pretty easy.

Also, coward mice? You don't ever know from where I am, you have no clue of how I am and what I do. You are taking thing too much personally.

Just to add, I will not post in this thread anymore. Any issues please PM me.[/quote']

I know you have ridiculous opinions, that's a better thing to judge you on than your genitals.

I apologise for awakening you from your monk-like meditational exile.

edit: I read those posts I quoted, I can give an opinion on things I have read. I think they stand on their own merits as ridiculous opinions. Incidentally, the comment on sexism, mice etc, was not directed at any one person, "You are taking thing too much personally".

Edited November 8, 2011 by Gir

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@Gir: So you joined Jun 2009, and have only posted in "female threads"?

[Gir 10]

@Gir: So you joined Jun 2009, and have only posted in "female threads"?

Thankyou for caring enough to look at my posting history.

I've been playing and reading the forums since 05 or so, nothing about arma/ofp really disappointed me except the lack of female soldiers (although a real armor penetration model would be nice).

I'm not sure why I even replied to you, your post is akin to the chewbacca defense.

edit: out of interest I just went back and read the 09 thread asking about female soldiers in arma 2 and it is amazing how many of the posters are the same, also how the arguments against are identical. I really hope BIS is willing to put some time aside and finally implement this feature so that people can be happy and we can put an end to these threads. I don't want to be posting in the exact same thread in the Arma 4 subforum in 2014.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Gir

[tkullander 18]

My own personal opinion; I would prefer having female soldiers in the game. Even though i mostly don't play through the campaigns, i would certainly like to have the choice of using female characters in the editor, armed and kickin', civilian or enlisted. By not allowing female civilians to use weapons, the immersion is ruined - if it's female, it just cannot be a armed insurgent dressed as a civilian..

It just seems a bit conservative to me not to have female soldiers in the game. In Sweden the amount of women in the military have been increasing alot the last years. 22% of the recruits in 2010 were female, and it seems like it's a steady trend (source in swedish). What female recruiting statistics does you country have?

I also think that the fears of having 'lara-croft-look-alikes' are a bit exaggerated. Please take a look at the image below. It pictures four swedish MP recruits training Urban Combat. One of them is female, and a friend of mine. Can you guess which one is her?

My point is, from a distance of about 25 or more meters it can be hard to distinguish a female soldier from a male soldier in full combat gear. If implemented, i trust BI to present female soldiers in a realistic and nonsexist manner.

Thank you all. Over and out.

[dm 9]

I don't want to be patronising here, but you really don't get it.

Women are not fundamentally more (or less) special than men, they are not deserving of better (or worse) treatment.

It is no less moral to let a woman die than it is to let a man die.

Apparently it is you that doesnt "get" it...

For all your armchair expertise, real studies have been done that suggest in these situations the male soldiers will always offer more care and "protection" to female comrades...

I also think that the fears of having 'lara-croft-look-alikes' are a bit exaggerated. Please take a look at the image below. It pictures four swedish MP recruits training Urban Combat. One of them is female, and a friend of mine. Can you guess which one is her?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9474119/strid_i_bebyggelse.jpg

My point is, from a distance of about 25 or more meters it can be hard to distinguish a female soldier from a male soldier in full combat gear. If implemented, i trust BI to present female soldiers in a realistic and nonsexist manner.

1. Most sensible post in the whole fucking thread.

2.

Man, I don't read a thread for a week and all the chauvinists come out of the woodwork.

Boobs, women's bodies are purely sexual objects by being represented

Grow up.

tkull's post highlights my point exactly. In COMBAT (this is a combat game after all) there is NO CHANCE you're telling the girls apart from the boys unless they're some ridiculously over-proportioned or scantily clad version of reality.

I wont post the direct link here, but google search for: College Humor "Female Armor Sucks".

I have nothing against having females in the game, I just dont want the sexd-up "sex sells" or "this is the only way they look different from the men" versions. (The latter seems to be one of the key arguments for having them "we need female soldiers cause they look different", my point is that they don't look different...)

[NoRailgunner 0]

Guess BIS artist will need some extra time to create proper voices, models and animations of females/womans...

http://i.imgur.com/4wRkb.jpg

;):)

[Gir 10]

I wont post the direct link here, but google search for: College Humor "Female Armor Sucks".

I have nothing against having females in the game, I just dont want the sexd-up "sex sells" or "this is the only way they look different from the men" versions. (The latter seems to be one of the key arguments for having them "we need female soldiers cause they look different", my point is that they don't look different...)

I realise you're not against female soldiers being in the game, but I'd just like to add that being wary of their inclusion because of a feared temptation to "sex up" is also *sort* of victim blaming, since it puts women at a disadvantage (not being able to play mp with a soldier that vaguely represents themselves, something that men of average build have been able to do since ofp with face editing) for the actions of society (a tendency to design overly sexual depictions of women).

edit: if women with huge boobs are in the game, that can be toned down as an issue, if the issue is avoided because of every similar fear such an opportunity will never come. These attitudes make it the cheaper, safer option for BIS not to include women, something entirely unrealistic but politically safer.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Gir

[becubed 24]

Can you guess which one is her?

The one labeled Nookie?:D

Assuming it means the same there as it does here.

Hope you don't mind the joke, I do agree with your points, they recently cleared the way in Australia for women to serve in any position that they can qualify for.

[tkullander 18]

The one labeled Nookie?:D

Assuming it means the same there as it does here.

Hope you don't mind the joke(...)

Eh, Nookie is not a Swedish word, and i don't know what it means so the joke is lost on me, sorry. But you got me curious to what it means, so please tell!

[Gir 10]

Eh, Nookie is not a Swedish word, and i don't know what it means so the joke is lost on me, sorry. But you got me curious to what it means, so please tell!

It is slang for having sex.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nookie

Not offensive, a euphemism even.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Gir

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I'm not sure why I even replied to you, your post is akin to the chewbacca defense.

So you don't find it ironic that someone attacking sexist comments have only posted in "female threads"? Well, I did. Sorry for being easily amused :) Didn't even know I was defending anything, but...

[Gir 10]

So you don't find it ironic that someone attacking sexist comments have only posted in "female threads"? Well, I did. Sorry for being easily amused :) Didn't even know I was defending anything, but...

The situation you describe, and that exists, could in no way be described as ironic.

An Inigo moment.

Also, of course:

Edited November 10, 2011 by Gir

[pvt_ryan 10]

I realise you're not against female soldiers being in the game, but I'd just like to add that being wary of their inclusion because of a feared temptation to "sex up" is also *sort* of victim blaming, since it puts women at a disadvantage (not being able to play mp with a soldier that vaguely represents themselves, something that men of average build have been able to do since ofp with face editing) for the actions of society (a tendency to design overly sexual depictions of women).

edit: if women with huge boobs are in the game, that can be toned down as an issue, if the issue is avoided because of every similar fear such an opportunity will never come. These attitudes make it the cheaper, safer option for BIS not to include women, something entirely unrealistic but politically safer.

Well, let me first say that I think that female soldiers would indeed be a nice addition to the game (especially since its setting is futuristic and therefore a society possibly if not probably more progressive with respect to this issue, and for that reason I think the otherwise significant realism argument against the inclusion of female combatants holds much less water). That said, victim blaming, really? Not to go off on a tangential diatribe, but it's grating enough to hear that little catchphrase over and over again in the context of other more serious gender issues... anyway I don't believe that this qualifies as an instance of victim-blaming regardless, and I really don't think that dropping such connotation-heavy buzzwords contributes much to the argument. The discussion is already politically charged enough without them, and using such powerful words unsparingly only serves to dilute their meaning. At any rate, I think it would be a cool thing to have in the game, and if any FPS community is mature enough for it, I guess it would have to ArmA's.

[dm 9]

At any rate, I think it would be a cool thing to have in the game, and if any FPS community is mature enough for it, I guess it would have to ArmA's.

OFP's maybe... ArmA's? Not so much.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Found something interesting in a book I picked up at Goodwill.

PFC Robert Stiles - L Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines *Guadalcanal*

McKelvy got ahold of me for what seemed to be a routine mission.

"Stiles," he said, "you know where company such and such is. Well, they're catching hell from a sniper no one can locate. Every-time a guy moves, he's fired on. No one has been killed yet, but they will be. Go get that bastard!"

So I moved over to where the company was and started moving through that damn konai grass and looking into the treetops. I was completely concealed by the konai yet I had a perfect view of the high trees.

Eventually I saw some movement in one of the trees. Pretty soon a head and then a rifle barrel came into view. I had my rifle sling nice and tight and my sight elevation was perfect. I let one go and, wham, out of the tree comes the Nip. I'm not bragging, but you asked me what I did on the Island and that was part of it.

Whenever one of us did hit a Jap sniper, we were supposed to search the corpse for any papers or unit identification.

My God, I started going through the dead Jap's blouse and I ran into breasts! Much to my utter amazement, the sniper was a woman. I don't know what the records say, but the Japanese has at least one female sniper on the Island. I know, I shot her.

Now you might ask if the shooting of a woman bothered me, particularly as this happened in an age when women were more on a pedestal then they are now.

My answer is simple-not at all. The woman had already wounded two Marines. She was bound to kill one sooner or later. As I look back, the killing of anyone is horrifying, but once that Japanese woman went up into the tree with a rifle in her hand, she became fair game.

Semper Fi, Mac - by Henry Berry

Edited November 16, 2011 by Darkhorse 1-6

[mobeus 10]

arma series is a combat simulator not a shopping simulator , I vote no.

[batto 17]

arma series is a combat simulator not a shopping simulator , I vote no.

Oh. You so smart! No really. Can't you just vote and STFU if you have nothing better to say?

By the way, Israel army has women. Why are you so offended? What's the big deal? I think you dig too deep into professional military and scientific research about role of women in battlefield... Are women in militias really so unrealistic? There will be only 2 prof. armies: NATO and Iran. The rest will be local resistance, bandits, ... Just look at http://www.arma3.com/arma-3-overview/factions/.

EDIT:

not a shopping simulator , I vote no.

I would add women just to piss of those morons (besides other reasons) ...

Edited November 16, 2011 by batto