They better have female soldiers...

[Zordon 1]

I've argued with several feminists on the feedback ticket on feedback.arma3.com over the past day, and my view on it is that it's too late for this now, and there is no point to it. It doesn't add anything to a military simulator, so I don't see why bohemia should have to waste their time on something that doesn't change their game in any way at all.

This

Sadly i don't see any point to it, and it would be both ways if arma 3 was a military simulation with girls instead of males i wouldn't make male avatars a priority as it doesn't adds anything important to the game at least not in an alpha, besides im guessing that if that was really necessary the community modders would've released something already lol.

I guess the + to it would be adding variety to the civs but still thats not really important as most of the time the map doesn't has civilians or are dead/hiding.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Zordon

[pathetic_berserker 4]

^^ if you had bothered to read the entirety of the thread and new why this thread exists then you might think again about your post. Females have gone from being entirely capable avatars in OFP to usless stage hoars in A2. As a uniquely flexible sandbox I see nothing wrong with requesting fully functioning female avatars to broaden story arcs and add some realism. And thier inclusion shouldn't be any more emotive than selecting any other unit or asset to include ingame. But I understand the tacticool dreamers have trouble seeing the need for mission makers to be able to include story elements, past thier fear of females damaging MP. Though I don't recall female avatars being a problem for OFP gameplay.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Pathetic_Berserker

[AussieStig 10]

^^ if you had bothered to read the entirety of the thread and new why this thread exists then you might think again about your post. Females have gone from being entirely capable avatars in OFP to usless stage hoars in A2. As a uniquely flexible sandbox I see nothing wrong with requesting fully functioning female avatars to broaden story arcs and add some realism. And thier inclusion shouldn't be any more emotive than selecting any other unit or asset to include ingame. But I understand the tacticool dreamers have trouble seeing the need for mission makers to be able to include story elements, past thier fear of females damaging MP. Though I don't recall female avatars being a problem for OFP gameplay.

Neither do I, but in this stage of development? Seriously?

There are far far more important things to work on than just cosmetic features that add nothing at all. It's something that should be worked on after full release, not right now.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Neither do I, but in this stage of development? Seriously?

There are far far more important things to work on than just cosmetic features that add nothing at all. It's something that should be worked on after full release, not right now.

How does anyone know they havn't already done the work, or planned to have it or not? Thing is no-one has been told openly either way, all we have is a female running on a beach in a bikini from a video shot quite some time ago. And as we are not priviy to their gant chart it is not our place to say that they don't have the resources or that its too late to include. BIS have always included constant updates to thier games so I'd be inclinded to say there no such thing as too late for BIS.

Its fine to say that this isn't a big priority for you personaly and that there are more important things for BIS to do. But how many of those important things require people who can create the required animations. And for me the addition of full functioning female avatars expand the possibilties of story and game play more than any other animation or modeling task that I can see needs filling.

[AussieStig 10]

How does anyone know they havn't already done the work, or planned to have it or not? Thing is no-one has been told openly either way, all we have is a female running on a beach in a bikini from a video shot quite some time ago. And as we are not priviy to their gant chart it is not our place to say that they don't have the resources or that its too late to include. BIS have always included constant updates to thier games so I'd be inclinded to say there no such thing as too late for BIS.

Its fine to say that this isn't a big priority for you personaly and that there are more important things for BIS to do. But how many of those important things require people who can create the required animations. And for me the addition of full functioning female avatars expand the possibilties of story and game play more than any other animation or modeling task that I can see needs filling.

Alright then. If they've added it to the game, great, it won't enhance the game for me in any way, but great. If they haven't added it in yet, then I don't see why it should be added at such a late point in development.

I see no way of it expanding gameplay in any way at all, but that's your opinion. It's literally just a female. I don't quite get how you think that's game changing.

[Zordon 1]

^^ if you had bothered to read the entirety of the thread -post

I made my reply based on the OPs wich im guessing its the main idea of this thread and to be honest stopped reading around page 4 i didn't felt like reading through 108 of people posting pictures of girls in military clothes to prove the fact that there are some females enlisted in the army lol.

And no i don't have anything against having more avatars/character models in the game, i just don't see that as a priority at the moment as they would need to make whole new set of animations, character model, clothes, skin recolours, different faces and VO for the females, seems like quite some work doesn't it.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

I made my reply based on the OPs wich im guessing its the main idea of this thread and to be honest stopped reading around page 4 i didn't felt like reading through 108 of people posting pictures of girls in military clothes to prove the fact that there are some females enlisted in the army lol.

Fair call I supose. Admitedly, sticking to the OP literaly is the best thing to with threads like this, its a complete mess in all directions. But it became clear to quite a few that the OP's request was indicative of a larger issue with female avatars.

And no i don't have anything against having more avatars/character models in the game, i just don't see that as a priority at the moment as they would need to make whole new set of animations, character model, clothes, skin recolours, different faces and VO for the females, seems like quite some work doesn't it.

I don't doubt that it's a lot of work but consider also how many skins, equipment models etc the community is likely to make for the male model. Then consider that it appears BIS is going so far as to including female character models (wearing bikinis) anyway. So connecting the dots, the 'only' thing that is really being asked here is that the female model be fully animated comparable to the male one. Then atleast the door is open for BIS and modders to expand later instead of difficult band-aid approaches similar to A2.

[WarMachine45 10]

Ah... no. Please show me some evidence of women in firefights. This would just be absurd to add to Arma, a bunch of guys are just going to play as women like they do in many mmos and maybe 1/1000 women would. Leave it out of the base game and just add it as a mod if you want it that bad.

[metalcraze 290]

That ticket is amazing.

Some dude goes like "There's a reason why there are so few female soldiers and most are in the support roles away from frontlines - like being less fit compared to men due to lower muscle mass which is human physio-"

"ZOMG u sexist misogynist bastard why you hate women we need equality, we need feminism!" - most of that is posted by males no less. Why is this happening? DayZ + the ability to undress your avatar attracting people from skyrim nexus? Why is this not happening to even stuff like CoD or BF?

If anything this ticket seems to be a perfect response to all those people "zomg we need to bring more people into ArmA, make it accessible". Well here you go. Be happy now.

I voted for 3rd option in this poll (e.g. don't care) but now I'm strongly against.

[johncage 30]

well if it's already mainstream there's no stopping it, the best thing to do would be to beat them to it and set the precedence with realistic female soldiers.

[Oshi7 1]

There are females who play this game who would like to be immersed into the game more and playing as a male doesn't immerse them. Too many straw-man arguments in here, suggesting that ARMA will become like Skyrim with people undressing their characters or something else equally stupid. It's almost a non-issue, as far as realism goes (this is set in 2030) and even in regards to authenticity. People who suggest its "too late" to add female character models seem to over estimate how hard this would be to accomplish, especially since you would only need to add a few female models... you wouldn't even need to change the skeleton for the models at all.

It might not be a priority, but for a finalized and finished product to allow everyone to enjoy and become immersed, I think its something that should be added.

[metalcraze 290]

Oshi7, I think you should let females speak for themselves, bro.

well if it's already mainstream there's no stopping it, the best thing to do would be to beat them to it and set the precedence with realistic female soldiers.

There's stopping it. Don't cave in into demands of children who want their barbie dolls.

I mean I really didn't care but reactions to not having female soldiers in a game show me that it will just make it even worse for ArmA if they were to be included.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

.......If anything this ticket seems to be a perfect response to all those people "zomg we need to bring more people into ArmA, make it accessible". Well here you go. Be happy now......

I get your point but they're here now and functioning female avatars or not theres no getting away from them. My view is, I'll be playing with the functionality of this game longer than I'll be playing with them. I'll happily delude myself into believing they'll move on eventualy or get educated

[lugiahua 26]

Ah... no. Please show me some evidence of women in firefights. This would just be absurd to add to Arma, a bunch of guys are just going to play as women like they do in many mmos and maybe 1/1000 women would. Leave it out of the base game and just add it as a mod if you want it that bad.

actually, a few US female MPs were award medals for direct combat performance.

here is my argument...it's true female is minority in western military, but would you argue that US unit models shouldn't have Asians because they are even smaller minority? (And BIS spent effort to Asian models in Arma2)

I really don't care if there is female soldier or not, I just think female character should have full function like OFP.

[falcos 14]

Id like to see this add for a few of our girls at CITYLIFE RPG community its sad to see how many of you guys think there are no girls that play this game I interview a large number of them for our community weekly. some of them stopped playing for the reason no girl models then came back when dayZ added them for us to use.

[phoboss 1]

The amount of work they would have to put into implementing this is so low I really don't see why this should not be added to the game. There are a few armed forces around the world who actually allow female soldiers on the frontlines (US/NATO is probably going to by 2030), so why would anybody be against this?

Every second post on this forum is about realism and this game being a war sim, so, if you want realism so much, I'd argue, there HAVE TO BE female models in the game, because female soldiers are real. And who cares if a male player wants to play a female soldier? There are white players, playing a black or asian char and vice versa.

[metalcraze 290]

If you are going to throw realism card around as you see fit would you agree that female soldiers are to be outperformed by male soldiers in carrying weight and sprinting while carrying said weight due to males having a bigger muscle mass - if said models are to be implemented?

And no - the amount of work will include making said models (because male and female frames are different and so are skeletons) and doing animations for them - unless you want for females to look like a male with feminine face (like it was in OFP the moment they got armed with a gun). It is also an extremely useless pointless request.

There are dozens of issues with gameplay - but they get 20... 30 votes at BEST. And something as stupid as "baaaawww there is no female soldier in the game" gets 350. People requesting it don't care about ArmA at all. This request shouldn't be fulfilled out of principle. If this is such a gamebreaker for those people - all the better.

Wind simulation? So snipers won't have an easy time sniping a dude 1 km away? No who needs that I want to have a barbie doll I can dress up durr.

Edited March 11, 2013 by metalcraze

[Kumeda 6]

@metalcraze

What is your real problem? Is it that woman by nature dont play games? Is it that men in some peoples view are always stronger/tougher...? Is it because woman will never play FPS? Is it maby this very reason people get so hung up on that topic, because they cant comprehend there exist another gender doing something what is "supposed" to be only a men thingy :D

No hard feelings but you are as much at fault as everyone else (man) that makes this topic bigger than it is.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Kumeda

[phoboss 1]

I ask myself the same thing. Why do you have such a strong opinion against female models? I believe there are more important issues to be addressed at the moment, BUT I also believe that in 2013 a Game that gives customization options of any kind, needs a male/female option period. This has nothing to do with muscle mass or anything. Women can serve in armed forced around the world, and please don't tell me that every man in the military has more strength or constitution than any woman. Because thats just rubbish. A well trained woman can serve just as good as the average male counterpart. Sure they'll probably not serve in Special Forces units like KSK or Navy Seals, but not every grunt is a navy seal.

Because if that were the case, why would they be allowed to follow any military career they choose? (At least in my country they can, and like I said, the US isn't to far behind on this)

Edited March 11, 2013 by phoboss

[metalcraze 290]

This has nothing to do with muscle mass or anything.

So basically when you use "there are females in real armies! It's realistik!"-realism card - it's ok. But when I parry it with a real fact - suddenly it's not ok?

A well trained woman can serve just as good as the average male counterpart.

What about well trained male? Of course a dude who doesn't do sports at all will be worse than a woman that does heavy lifting.

Again - you've thrown a realism card there and I'm sorry but I find this kind of hypocrisy really funny.

BUT I also believe that in 2013 a Game that gives customization options of any kind, needs a male/female option period.

I'm not sure you know what ArmA is.

Mod it in. You have the tools.

I believe there are more important issues to be addressed at the moment

Good for you. You should've ended your post right there.

[phoboss 1]

Dude, I'm not saying its not OK to use the "muscle card", I'm simply saying that its a none issue. You are ignoring the fact that there are armed forces that allow women to follow any kind of military career they want, thus making the difference in strength and constitution irrelevant. Or at least ignoring it. And if the military leader of a country can ignore it, I think so can a game like Arma.

I do know what Arma is, I've been playing the series since OFP so don't give me that condescending bullshit. Arma 3 has all sorts of soldier customization like ethnicity and so on, and because of that I believe the male/female option should be in there as well.

And I would like to state my opinion here without you telling me when to end my posts and when I'm allowed to speak.

Edited March 11, 2013 by phoboss

[metalcraze 290]

@phoboss:

And did I say I have a problem with that? My problem isn't with females being able to carry or fire guns in the game. But since this is ArmA, an authentic military sandboxTM, they would have had to be represented properly. And guess what - yes they can take whatever path they want but only if they will fit different standards and limits for different genders which are there for, surprise, males too! And there's a reason for that called the 'sad reality'. Unfortunately that won't roll with 16 years old mostly male kids that seem to be invading our community (I'm sorry but that's the impression I get). And if not having female soldiers is that magical barrier that keeps them out or at least will force them to move onto whatever other game - then it's for the best. And before you play a "misogyny!" card like a dude above you did - I don't doubt that some fit muscular female can beat me up lol.

And what would happen if those same people learned about VBS2 - a software done by, yes, Bohemia, which real world military uses to train their soldiers - and you can kill and blow up pregnant women and kids there. Isn't it horrible?

[Kumeda 6]

@metalcraze

your riding your realism card man are in average stronger very well. But what he is saying just that woman should be included to the game as customisation option. One of the arguments is that in reality women take part in war and combat roles. As ARMA3 is a game about war (It states "This Is War" while loding the game!). Another argument is that Arma isnt just about war it can be about anything, just like the CITYRGP Sim for arma.

However, you are arguing that female chars in the game Arma3 should not be implemented because women are weaker than man in the real world. First thats a very basic and general statment not pointing out what this has to do with Woman in Combat roles. There are different typs of Combat roles to begin with. Secoondly Arma doesnt state "This is Special Infantry" it says "This Is War" and the infantry is an important but only a one aspekt about this game. Secondly Arma is a sandboxgame, and as such there are no rules about what a character is placed in or can do.

And last

If this should come and people think its a good and realistic thing to make all woman characters weaker and all man characters stronger it can be moded, or a mod that swaps all female with a male model, or a mode that gives pro and cons tradeoff to both genders. This should be possible to mod doesnt it? Some of these mods could be even clientsided! Additionaly this might be easier done as the other way round -- moding females soldiers into the game-- as it doesnt need expensive programms (3dmax, photoshop,audiorecording....)

Edited March 11, 2013 by Kumeda

[kyriel 10]

And of course all the girls that play arma 2 will probably love to have female soldiers in the game.

Meh.

I personally have no preference, except if I did have to choose between male or female I might pick a male soldier.

I've only played Arma 2 for about a year but quickly fell in love with it. I don't see myself playing a female, ever. *manly flex*

[phoboss 1]

@phoboss:

And did I say I have a problem with that? My problem isn't with females being able to carry or fire guns in the game. But since this is ArmA, an authentic military sandboxTM, they would have had to be represented properly. And guess what - yes they can take whatever path they want but only if they will fit different standards and limits for different genders which are there for, surprise, males too! And there's a reason for that called the 'sad reality'. Unfortunately that won't roll with 16 years old mostly male kids that seem to be invading our community (I'm sorry but that's the impression I get). And if not having female soldiers is that magical barrier that keeps them out or at least will force them to move onto whatever other game - then it's for the best. And before you play a "misogyny!" card like a dude above you did - I don't doubt that some fit muscular female can beat me up lol.

And what would happen if those same people learned about VBS2 - a software done by, yes, Bohemia, which real world military uses to train their soldiers - and you can kill and blow up pregnant women and kids there. Isn't it horrible?

See, thats an opinion I can accept and discuss about, but I can't work with comments like "you don't know what Arma is" or "you should've ended your post right there". Thats just condescending and rude.

I'm a 30 year old male and for me its just about equality. Nothing else. My girlfriend likes to play video games as well, and she always hates it when there isn't a female option. Thats just how it is. And because I wouldn't want to play a female character (where male would be a viable option, not like in tomb raider or anything), I kinda feel the option should exist for the female player base as well.

I read comments like "why would men ever want to play a female avatar". And even though I personally never would either, there are people out there who like to do just that. But thats not the point, if people ask, why men should play a female character, then you need to ask, why would women want to play a male character? If they do, or don't is not the point, IMHO the option should be there. Even if its just cosmetic.

Edited March 11, 2013 by phoboss