Steamworks, add it in or not?

[LeeManatee 4]

speaking about arma 2 and steam:

i don't even start steam to play arma. i use six updater and i don't see anything wrong in buying arma via steam. i run it from time to time to get updates etc, but thats it. simple n shit.

[Hicks_09 10]

speaking about arma 2 and steam:

i don't even start steam to play arma. i use six updater and i don't see anything wrong in buying arma via steam. i run it from time to time to get updates etc, but thats it. simple n shit.

Cold War Assault, ArmA and ArmA 2 are sold through steam. They're not steamworks titles though.

[jonneymendoza 10]

Don't like Steam being run in-game? Disable it. Steam needs to be running to launch the game be it online or offline mode. Disabling steam means you won't be able to run the game. I'm guessing you're talking about the overlay.

If it's shackled to steamworks then you're going to need to run steam. Let the people who want to buy it via steam get it there, they can have it in their list and launcher. Why should the rest of us that want nothing to do with steam be shackled to it? And what about those that want to launch it via GFWL or Origin? Or is it more a case of EA and Microsoft are too nasty but fawning over Valve is fine?

67.37% of potential customers that have answered that poll so far, a majority do not want it shackled to steam. What kind of reason do you want? That for some people it is unreliable, for some it has features they cannot disable and do not want, for some they simply do not want an online drm included. How about those that have no interest in achievements or the social features? What about those that have no desire to give money to valve?

Why shouldn't it be a steamworks title? Why shouldn't it be an Origin or GWFL title? Because for some customers they are nothing but a hassle that for them does not work reliably. They pay money for the title why should they have to jump through even more hoops to get it working? Example I had no desire to use origin but when using it with Mass Effect 3 I've had no problems. Compare that with Deus Ex Human Revolution tied to steam and I've had connection issues and there was a problem patching at first. I still see no reason to force origin on someone just because it worked fine for me. Removing origin from Mass Effect 3 wouldn't take away any feature I use. Removing steamworks from DX HR wouldn't remove anything I use either. So why include either origin or steamworks?

Please tell me what is wrong with running steam in the background that uses less resources then you opening up firefox and displaying this post in the background?

You do know you can have connections issues on Arma 2 standalone done you? Take DayZ mod for example. people have LOADS of connection issues in that game and guess what, those connection issues have nothing to do with Steam.

Point is, connection issues happens regardless if its a steam game or not.

And what is wrong with giving money to valve? no different to giving money to shoto, GAME and the zillions of shops both online and retail that sell pc games.

What hoops do you need to jump into? by clicking on arma 3 > buy > enter payment details > confirm > steam begins downloading arma 3 for u and patching it up to the latest?

And then simply clicking on the arma 3.exe to launch it? what hoops are you on about?

The idea of Steamworks is to make life easier installing mod and keeping your game up to date.

If and i mean IF BI implemented a fully fledge six update UI in Arma 3 along with a centralized friends list where you can add friends and join the server their playing and host private voip chat amongst your friends without TS/mumble then sure. no need for steamworks, but the chances of that happening are slim.

So to rephase my question to you all, give me one valid reason why this should not be in steamworks.

[LeeManatee 4]

Cold War Assault, ArmA and ArmA 2 are sold through steam. They're not steamworks titles though.

ah.. excuse my ignorance then.

if steamworks means game servers etc.. idk. gamespy/steam doesn;t really matter for me. it should work like clockwork, thats all i actually care.

[jonneymendoza 10]

ah.. excuse my ignorance then.

if steamworks means game servers etc.. idk. gamespy/steam doesn;t really matter for me. it should work like clockwork, thats all i actually care.

Gamespy is a pain and achient. hardly anyone uses gamespy for there game browser

[Redjevel 1]

Well i would like to see a 2 cd keys in a box one would be for a steam and other one just normal install from cd?

[dmarkwick 261]

So to rephase my question to you all, give me one valid reason why this should not be in steamworks.

2 reasons:

I had my Steam account hacked. For a week, I had no access to ANYTHING Steam related. When I eventually got it back (after proving who I was) my games had been played by someone else, which included online games, for many hours. How this person conducted themselves while playing under my account I obviously had no control of. While my Steam account was hacked, the person had downloaded & installed all my games to their machine. My cloud saves were all fouled.

Lose your Steam access, and you lose ALL your Steam purchases. Get banned from their forums (even erroneously) and that's it. All your games are gone. No comeback.

[neokika 62]

2 reasons:

I had my Steam account hacked. For a week, I had no access to ANYTHING Steam related. When I eventually got it back (after proving who I was) my games had been played by someone else, which included online games, for many hours. How this person conducted themselves while playing under my account I obviously had no control of. While my Steam account was hacked, the person had downloaded & installed all my games to their machine. My cloud saves were all fouled.

Lose your Steam access, and you lose ALL your Steam purchases. Get banned from their forums (even erroneously) and that's it. All your games are gone. No comeback.

You call that a valid reason?

What about this: Adding Steamworks would not require you to buy Steam version...

[dmarkwick 261]

You call that a valid reason?

No I call it two valid reasons :)

What about this: Adding Steamworks would not require you to buy Steam version...

Is it not the case that a Steamworks integration requires Steam?

[neokika 62]

No I call it two valid reasons :)

I have to disagree. :)

Is it not the case that a Steamworks integration requires Steam?

No! But Steamworks would only be available for Steam version.

[dmarkwick 261]

Hey look: if Steamworks can be used as an optional method of game management, then go ahead, fill your boots :)

[neokika 62]

Hey look: if Steamworks can be used as an optional method of game management, then go ahead, fill your boots :)

Thank you! I think this is pretty much what people that like Steamworks are asking for.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Steamworks games require Steam to be installed. Or in other words it forces customers to install Steam aka 3rd party software just to work with Steamwork titles.... One could say its just a little trick to lure people into buying games through Steam sales. People working for Steam do know how to sell candys and how to bind customers to their platform. Of course people will put a blind eye on as long as they can get their fix.... ;) Imo buying A3 online on BIS store is the best option. No need to split profit for things that can be done by BIS eg addon/mod launcher, mp browser....

[Hicks_09 10]

I have to disagree. :)

No! But Steamworks would only be available for Steam version.

Steamworks is a set of community tools and content delivery options as well as a drm packaged together. Tie a game to steamworks and it requires steam - has to be installed, ran through, updated through and is tied to. DX HR for example.

If you're asking for the possibility of two separate versions one steamworks and one not then you're looking at more costs for the developer which I doubt they'd be happy about. By tying it to steamworks it then forces steam on everyone that buys it as that is the drm that it uses. You could buy it from a physical store or from a digital distributor it would still be shackled to steam.

The idea mentioned of having a BIS made built in updater and community features would be great for those that want to use it.

It would be just that. A great set of features. Not just a drm with fancy wrapping paper.

You do know you can have connections issues on Arma 2 standalone done you? Take DayZ mod for example. people have LOADS of connection issues in that game and guess what, those connection issues have nothing to do with Steam.

Point is, connection issues happens regardless if its a steam game or not.

And what is wrong with giving money to valve? no different to giving money to shoto, GAME and the zillions of shops both online and retail that sell pc games.

What hoops do you need to jump into? by clicking on arma 3 > buy > enter payment details > confirm > steam begins downloading arma 3 for u and patching it up to the latest?

And then simply clicking on the arma 3.exe to launch it? what hoops are you on about?

The idea of Steamworks is to make life easier installing mod and keeping your game up to date.

If and i mean IF BI implemented a fully fledge six update UI in Arma 3 along with a centralized friends list where you can add friends and join the server their playing and host private voip chat amongst your friends without TS/mumble then sure. no need for steamworks, but the chances of that happening are slim.

So with existing connection issues you want to pile more potential connection issues on top :confused: You may have been fortunate with steam. Not everyone is. Just as people have had trouble with GFWL, Origin and Ubi's "always on" not to mention the recent Diablo III.

You are happy to give a cut of your money to valve. That's your choice. I've no desire to contribute to them, same for Ubi.

I buy physical versions when I can. Buy > Install (perhaps an activation) > Play. No making accounts > running clients > keeping them up-to-date > hoping that there are no connection issues > updating > play. You're happy with the way DD in particular works. Not everyone else is. Some have bandwidth caps on their internet. Some have slow internet. Some don't have internet and are perhaps viewing forums from a library or on their phone. Some are happy with the setup they know and that works for them. Titles ought to be sold through a variety of venues to enable the maximum exposure that can be reliably supported by the developer. Give the customer the opportunity to shop around to get the best price, the Australians get absolutely shafted on the costs for their entertainment. Shackle it to one client and it removes competition.

Steamworks is a drm with community features that ties into a store and a unified account. If you're happy with a unified account then great. Some of us aren't. I'm guessing that DMarkwick wasn't overly enamoured with unified accounts when it got hacked?

I agree totally on the advantage of a BIS made inbuilt updater and community setup. They've taken steps over the ArmA series to include features and tools. They'll get there eventually.

Well i would like to see a 2 cd keys in a box one would be for a steam and other one just normal install from cd?

What would stop someone from selling the steam key and keeping the regular? That would mean they buy the game once, have one version for themselves and can recoop the money back by selling the steam key. Shafting the developer.

[batto 17]

Steamworks is a freely available application programming interface (API) that provides development and publishing tools to game developers, allowing them to take advantage of the Steam client's features.

After looking at Steamworks FAQ it doesn't seem so friendly though. However if I understand correctly it can be optional, no? I mean there could be ARMA version with Steamworks stuff sold on Steam. It would please some people. If they want to play games via Steam, well, let them suffer =).

From FAQ:

2. My game is in early development stages, don't I need to plan for the SDK integration now?

The Steamworks SDK is easy to integrate, so you can wait until your game is further along in the development cycle before worrying about it.

Edited May 21, 2012 by batto

[Hicks_09 10]

After looking at Steamworks FAQ it doesn't seem so friendly though. However if I understand correctly it can be optional, no? I mean there could be ARMA version with Steamworks stuff sold on Steam. It would please some people. If they want to play games via Steam, well, let them suffer =).

It would likely depend on the cost for making two versions. Say that you have one version that is tied to steamworks with the community features. How would that intergrate with the version without? What if BIS made their own community features - how would the two play together?

[batto 17]

Say that you have one version that is tied to steamworks with the community features. How would that intergrate with the version without?

The Steamworks version should've just additional Steam-related stuff if it's possible.

What if BIS made their own community features - how would the two play together?

Well, their implementation should be generic to be easily tied with Steamworks.

I just theorise.

[LeeManatee 4]

i actually changed my mind. there is no need in steamworks. just build in launcher/updater/mod manager in arma3

[Hicks_09 10]

i actually changed my mind. there is no need in steamworks. just build in launcher/updater/mod manager in arma3

BIS have always been ambitious :) Just give them time.

[jonneymendoza 10]

2 reasons:

I had my Steam account hacked. For a week, I had no access to ANYTHING Steam related. When I eventually got it back (after proving who I was) my games had been played by someone else, which included online games, for many hours. How this person conducted themselves while playing under my account I obviously had no control of. While my Steam account was hacked, the person had downloaded & installed all my games to their machine. My cloud saves were all fouled.

Lose your Steam access, and you lose ALL your Steam purchases. Get banned from their forums (even erroneously) and that's it. All your games are gone. No comeback.

Your BI arma 2 stuff can be hacked too mate and you lose your game.

Also, most steam account that get hacked are due to the steam user owner themselves clicking on dodgy scammed links or using some easy password too.

---------- Post added at 05:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------

Steamworks is a set of community tools and content delivery options as well as a drm packaged together. Tie a game to steamworks and it requires steam - has to be installed, ran through, updated through and is tied to. DX HR for example.

If you're asking for the possibility of two separate versions one steamworks and one not then you're looking at more costs for the developer which I doubt they'd be happy about. By tying it to steamworks it then forces steam on everyone that buys it as that is the drm that it uses. You could buy it from a physical store or from a digital distributor it would still be shackled to steam.

The idea mentioned of having a BIS made built in updater and community features would be great for those that want to use it.

It would be just that. A great set of features. Not just a drm with fancy wrapping paper.

So with existing connection issues you want to pile more potential connection issues on top :confused: You may have been fortunate with steam. Not everyone is. Just as people have had trouble with GFWL, Origin and Ubi's "always on" not to mention the recent Diablo III.

You are happy to give a cut of your money to valve. That's your choice. I've no desire to contribute to them, same for Ubi.

I buy physical versions when I can. Buy > Install (perhaps an activation) > Play. No making accounts > running clients > keeping them up-to-date > hoping that there are no connection issues > updating > play. You're happy with the way DD in particular works. Not everyone else is. Some have bandwidth caps on their internet. Some have slow internet. Some don't have internet and are perhaps viewing forums from a library or on their phone. Some are happy with the setup they know and that works for them. Titles ought to be sold through a variety of venues to enable the maximum exposure that can be reliably supported by the developer. Give the customer the opportunity to shop around to get the best price, the Australians get absolutely shafted on the costs for their entertainment. Shackle it to one client and it removes competition.

Steamworks is a drm with community features that ties into a store and a unified account. If you're happy with a unified account then great. Some of us aren't. I'm guessing that DMarkwick wasn't overly enamoured with unified accounts when it got hacked?

I agree totally on the advantage of a BIS made inbuilt updater and community setup. They've taken steps over the ArmA series to include features and tools. They'll get there eventually.

What would stop someone from selling the steam key and keeping the regular? That would mean they buy the game once, have one version for themselves and can recoop the money back by selling the steam key. Shafting the developer.

If you have slow internet connections. Expect to have issues on a big standard DRM free Arma game or any other MP game. Again, steam is not the issuem, your own internet connection is.

I can bet u a million quid that 9/10 arma 2 players have decent net connection able to run a client like steam in the background that uses less resource then a web browser.

What arma and basically any online orientated MP game is a centralized account system that uniquely identifies a legit MP user in the arma universe. Steam/Steam works offers the tools to do this. right now, there is no such tool on arma 2 and this is what Arma 3 needs whether its done via steam or if BI implement a similar system(like battlelog) then fair enough. it needs it.

[batto 17]

Your BI arma 2 stuff can be hacked too mate and you lose your game.

Also, most steam account that get hacked are due to the steam user owner themselves clicking on dodgy scammed links or using some easy password too.

The point is that we don't need remote account to play games that are installed on our computers! The game is there, but it's intentionally f*cked up so you can't run it without connecting to Steam first. So if Steam screws up and someone steals accounts from their servers you will not be able to play games that are installed on your computer. Required dumb f*cked up DRM piece of crap? No!!! Optional? We don't care.

[Hicks_09 10]

The point is that we don't need remote account to play games that are installed on our computers! The game is there, but it's intentionally f*cked up so you can't run it without connecting to Steam first. So if Steam screws up and someone steals accounts from their servers you will not be able to play games that are installed on your computer. Required dumb f*cked up DRM piece of crap? No!!! Optional? We don't care.

Pretty much sums it up. :D

If you have slow internet connections. Expect to have issues on a big standard DRM free Arma game or any other MP game. Again, steam is not the issuem, your own internet connection is.

I can bet u a million quid that 9/10 arma 2 players have decent net connection able to run a client like steam in the background that uses less resource then a web browser.

What arma and basically any online orientated MP game is a centralized account system that uniquely identifies a legit MP user in the arma universe. Steam/Steam works offers the tools to do this. right now, there is no such tool on arma 2 and this is what Arma 3 needs whether its done via steam or if BI implement a similar system(like battlelog) then fair enough. it needs it.

You're missing the point. If there is an issue server side - on steams end then you could have a connection to make Seoul's internet connections blush and it won't matter. Steam would be a complication that couldn't be avoided if it were locked with steamworks, same with any client: steam, origin, ubi etc.

Would it be fair to say that all you want is an online profile, match arranging and matchmaking service? For those that dislike the idea of steamworks there's going to be a multitude of reasons, they'd likely see the centralised account as a beneficial thing though. Just not when it means being shackled to steam or another online client.

[dmarkwick 261]

Your BI arma 2 stuff can be hacked too mate and you lose your game.

I doubt it. The worst that could happen is that Fade gets activated in MP games. I haven't heard of anyone's ArmA game being hacked.

Also, most steam account that get hacked are due to the steam user owner themselves clicking on dodgy scammed links or using some easy password too.

There you go. My ArmA cannot be FUBARed by clicking on a dodgy link or having a poor password. 2 more good reasons thanks ;)

[jonneymendoza 10]

I doubt it. The worst that could happen is that Fade gets activated in MP games. I haven't heard of anyone's ArmA game being hacked.

There you go. My ArmA cannot be FUBARed by clicking on a dodgy link or having a poor password. 2 more good reasons thanks ;)

So just because you are clumbsy and click and share your user details to all means we shouldnt have steamworks for this game due to your ignorance? LOL.

---------- Post added at 09:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------

The point is that we don't need remote account to play games that are installed on our computers! The game is there, but it's intentionally f*cked up so you can't run it without connecting to Steam first. So if Steam screws up and someone steals accounts from their servers you will not be able to play games that are installed on your computer. Required dumb f*cked up DRM piece of crap? No!!! Optional? We don't care.

But you need REMOTE ACCESS to play online. got it?

PLus its been said a thousand times. steam has a OFFLINE mode

[b00ce 160]

There you go. My ArmA cannot be FUBARed by clicking on a dodgy link or having a poor password. 2 more good reasons thanks ;)

You have to click the link AND enter your user information to "log on" to the site. It is incredibly easy to avoid.