Stealth Kills?

[dmarkwick 261]

This argument can only be won with a nuke.

[metalcraze 290]

In the Seal Team Six missions, fan missions, it kinda was a 50/50 killing one enemy let most of the other enemies know where you where at and so on regardless of headshots...

Absolutely not true.

If blind and deaf enemies are the main thing that doesn't let you to kill enemies silently it isn't game's problem.

I was killing enemies from the same squad with ACE, ASR and Zeus which all make AI eagle-eyed and not as deaf as in AA2 and I still managed to stealthily kill dudes 3 meters apart without being noticed (in fact sometimes it took many seconds for AI to notice that his bro is dead)

It isn't even stealth man. AI is not all seeing.

Explanation: I kill one guy then hide behind the toilet to reload. When I come from behind it it looks like his buddy followed him but checks out a completely different side. And I didn't even do any headshot.

Edited July 5, 2011 by metalcraze

[rye1 21]

Stop trolling. I understand a rifle or pistol over knife arguement. And I have mentioned 110 times about it.

[Primarch 10]

This argument can only be won with a nuke.

Just saying, you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

Pistol is anyway the knife is arma, takes multiple shots to kill, you have to stab with it to hit something, it is really bad to use and gives you all disadvantage, no advantages.

---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 AM ----------

Stop trolling. I understand a rifle or pistol over knife arguement. And I have mentioned 110 times about it.

You keep using that word, but I don't think you know what it means.

[rye1 21]

Just saying, you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

Pistol is anyway the knife is arma, takes multiple shots to kill, you have to stab with it to hit something, it is really bad to use and gives you all disadvantage, no advantages.

In reality yes and no. You can't predict a situation and they often turn out to be not what you expected. 21 foot rule unholstering, in CQB by this time the enemy has either shot you or ontop of you.

Close quarters:- rat holes, tunnels, buildings, wardrobes and other household items. The enemy could be anywhere and what do you do when your pistol jams, runs out of ammo?

It's not just used as a stealth weapon either but the bayonet, knife on the end of a barrel, can be used for assaulting:

http://www.defence.gov.au/media/download/2004/dec/031204.cfm

I mean stop taking the discussion elsewhere, with comments that aren't needed. Stupid comments of which do not add to the discussion but take away from it or throw it elsewhere.

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

Absolutely not true.

If blind and deaf enemies are the main thing that doesn't let you to kill enemies silently it isn't game's problem.

I was killing enemies from the same squad with ACE, ASR and Zeus which all make AI eagle-eyed and not as deaf as in AA2 and I still managed to stealthily kill dudes 3 meters apart without being noticed (in fact sometimes it took many seconds for AI to notice that his bro is dead)

It isn't even stealth man. AI is not all seeing.

Explanation: I kill one guy then hide behind the toilet to reload. When I come from behind it it looks like his buddy followed him but checks out a completely different side. And I didn't even do any headshot.

In that video the enemies around is alerted, even if they dont "see" you well because of a silencer, that wasnt my point.

[metalcraze 290]

Yes they are alerted because they are getting killed en masse.

And yes your point was "most of the other enemies know where you where at and so on regardless of headshots"

Unless my knowledge of english is very bad.

As for "Solid Snake" - you shouldn't be comparing a game that is built around enemies specially being blind, ignorant and deaf to a reality. There are much better examples of proper stealth games.

If you kill a guy in AA2 nobody gets insta-alerted. The commander first calls out that guy and if he doesn't respond then he is considered dead (with all the consequences). Even if the current implementation isn't ideal it's much better than a bunch of silent bots totally ignoring that they are not alone in the same squad.

Don't forget that silenced does not mean soundless at all. Silenced M4 gunfire can be perfectly heard 10 or more meters away.

[Cdogwoof 11]

Put a Silencer on that thing is just as unrealistic as knife kills in modern day combat

[rye1 21]

In modern wars today seen in Afghanistan it is hardly used, correct. They have reduced the amount of training time with a knife and bayonet. But that's Afghanistan and that's regular units. Not Arma 3, near future, all-out + guerrilla war with unconventional units.

But this is a stealth topic I don't mean to isolate it, it's just I thought a knife would be better than hand-to-hand to create.

What do people want to see, hand-to-hand, knife, bayonet, scripts to work with AI, silencers + subsonics to accurately work as well as working with AI, camouflage to work with more fluidity, noise or weight to affect these scripts, what?

You obviously doubt knives very much and I'm the total opposite.

[Daniel 0]

The danger is that the AI would not be competent enough to deal with the player armed with a knife. There would have to be serious repercussions for the player not getting the kill exactly right, such as the AI shouting out, or overpowering the player, or simply not dying straight away.

Personally, I think stealthy throat slitting and take downs would be sort of cool and certainly useful under certain circumstances, but I believe it would take too much development to get it right, especially in Arma.

[Cdogwoof 11]

Just to Add to my first post the US Army does not Train with the bayonet any more the only Branch in the US Military that trains on it is the United States Marine Corp but this game seems to be simulated around the US army (so far what i have heard atleast) and i do believe the USMC is the only people that do train on the bayonet in all of NATO (I could easily be wrong though feel free to correct me).

As to Rye's Post I do believe that there are accounts of the IDF going in melee combat but simulating it in ArmA 3 as if it was WWE would be terriblely hard. As for Stealth weapons i wont mind them at all nor camouflage even though that would be hard to simulate with AI

[Daniel 0]

i do believe the USMC is the only people that do train on the bayonet in all of NATO (I could easily be wrong though feel free to correct me).

British Army Phase 2 Training

Edited July 5, 2011 by Daniel

[Cdogwoof 11]

Thanks i will check that out i do not know much about other countries military's so sorry if i offended any one

[rye1 21]

UK does, so do Australia, New Zealand, South Korea. It's apart of basic training and even SF training. I would think a next all-out conflict, you'd certainly see more stealth, bayonet and knive useage as you'd have more bunkered, dug-in enemy and house-to-house battles. It's happened in almost every conflict to the present day. Anyways, thanks for replying. I'm off to bed!

[Primarch 10]

UK does, so do Australia, New Zealand, South Korea. It's apart of basic training and even SF training. I would think a next all-out conflict, you'd certainly see more stealth, bayonet and knive useage as you'd have more bunkered, dug-in enemy and house-to-house battles. It's happened in almost every conflict to the present day. Anyways, thanks for replying. I'm off to bed!

Seriously, do you REALLY think anyone will use a knife or a bayonet in arma?

This is something like those woman soldiers, nobody will use them and they take a lot of resources to do it right.

[Daniel 0]

We had bayonets in OFP, we used them often enough.

[Primarch 10]

We had bayonets in OFP, we used them often enough.

And the amount of work needed to do them right is much more than 10 years ago, since you are used to much better quality in video games than 10 years ago.

[Daniel 0]

That's a fair point. Though in my mind they'd get used more than knives. I assume everyone else's minds work differently. :p

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Seriously, do you REALLY think anyone will use a knife or a bayonet in arma?

This is something like those woman soldiers, nobody will use them and they take a lot of resources to do it right.

Just yourself doesn't qualify as "nobody" bro.

[ProfTournesol 956]

And the amount of work needed to do them right is much more than 10 years ago, since you are used to much better quality in video games than 10 years ago.

Explain us how hard it will be to implement this feature, as you seem very aware of it.

[Primarch 10]

Explain us how hard it will be to implement this feature, as you seem very aware of it.

I think you did not even read my post, where did I say it is hard?

[ProfTournesol 956]

I think you did not even read my post, where did I say it is hard?

So, explain us what "amount of work" it'll demand ?

[Primarch 10]

Just yourself doesn't qualify as "nobody" bro.

Just yourself doesn't qualify as a majority, bro. The majority does not even have an account on these forums.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Just yourself doesn't qualify as a majority, bro. The majority does not even have an account on these forums.

And you do? Shut up and stop putting words in others' mouths.

[Primarch 10]

So, explain us what "amount of work" it'll demand ?

So, coding and animations? What else would there be? Getting them right is the problem. However if BIS wants to put their time into something niche like "stealth kill with a knife with special super moves", fine by me if the rest of the game is at the same level of quality.

---------- Post added at 02:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 PM ----------

And you do? Shut up and stop putting words in others' mouths.

Yes I do, why do you get really angry because I have different views than you?