Some problems in ARMA2:OA CQB aspects

[kot1k 13]

I don't know how much you've heard that already, but arma2 oa desperately needs some help with CQB. It's in awfull state curently, and that really spoil fun sometimes.

Well, what should be done, in my opinion:

1) The game needs some means to throw a frag into the doorway without exposing yourself to the enemy behind it (reach a hand and toss it into the doorway - well, like in all those ARMA2 CG-animations, with "frag and enter" style of clearing the room), or risking make a slight mistake and killing all your fireteam. Beside it, the means to easly throw a grenade into the window (or even ANY breach into the solid wall) in close proximity. Probably, the best way would be some interaction menu option.

2) Some easly usable method of conveing your intention to the teammates in close proximity WITHOUT using your voice. Like "tapping someones shoulder" in ACE2 mod, BUT no way you can use interaction menu here (like ACE2's feature does), cause its SO frequenly used option, that you have to have a hotkey for it, no other way

3) Breaching into the room is another problem. Well, I can understand, that totally destructable environment of such scale would be almost impractical, so lets forget of option to blow a hole in ANY wall to make your personal entrance. BUT! What difficulties one could meet while adding feature like "attach" an explosion charge to the door? And, of course, adding a couple of such "low power" charges (like C4; in fact, that was already done by ACE2 creators)? So, developers of ACE2 mod was managed to add a feature to attach satchel charges to vehicles (like making an IED from a civilian car or mining an HMMVE), so, couldn't it possible to do something like that with the door object?

4) There is some problem with entering narrow doorways while strafing through it, you just get stuck. There is also a mod (but glitchy one) that mostly solve the problem with some dirty hack. Could it be solved on the main game side? The need to deal with minor 3rd party "pathces" is quite frustating.

5) Last, but not least - some easly usable hand signal system would be of great addition to the game. What we have currently (AFAIK, it was added by the same ACE2 developers) is clumsy and almost useless in the heat of close combat action - you have to open interaction GRAPHICAL menu and then select those gestures by MOUSE or pressing a numeric keys, and you CANNOT assign a hotkeys for invoking them directly. I really don't know how it can be done. Well, there is an almost astonishing idea, but don't know is it realizable on game's engine - you press and hold a special hotkey and then you "draw" a figurines with your mouse (your weapon or line of site doesn't change its position while hotkey is pressed), initiating one or another hand signal. For example, you move mouse left - and your character singaling "move left" to the team. You could even stack (5) and (2) together, like if you staying point blank behind your teammate and pressing that new hotkey - you tapping his shoulder (an textual indication in the bottom of his screen will do, no need for special animation), conveing him that he can start crossing the street, for example. That would have made all CQB interactions quite intuitive and introduce fantastic ease of use!

Yes, I know there are "those mods/scripts" that fix some ot mentioned above (but NO ONE fixs (1), for example). But there is a difference between solution from unknown amateur and original game developer, ESPECIALLY when you are running a server with online like 80-120 ppl at the same time, with ACE2 and similar mods installed. Those solutions may be fine for a small coops with your friends, but can add unexpected problems in huge battles. There are some some problems with them, that these 3rd party developers can't (or don't want) to fix, also. Besides, without adding it through the original game patch, there is no means to force all game server's admins to add all these fixes.

Edited April 17, 2011 by kot1k

[Gunter Severloh 3949]

Good points kot1k,

but if you could, outline this more as reading this is like reading one huge ass novel, or paragraph, make your

suggestions stand out more with each point by number you are making starts with a subject or title.

that way when and if BIS Devs do read this then they dont have to burn their eyes on reading half a book to see your points.

[NeMeSiS 11]

To be honest, we dont really have interiors that are large enough for any of this to matter.

Also, i think your point 4 has been solved since.. Either 1.57 or a betapatch right after that (So included in 1.59) and ever since then your weapon just moves around a bit and you are free to do what you please, but you cant fully aim everywhere. (Though i think if you turn forcefully you can still turn everywhere, however i would have to try it but i am too far from my PC right now)

[Gunter Severloh 3949]

we dont really have interiors that are large enough for any of this to matter.

What game are you playing?!

in the mission insurgency your doing cqc all the time, theres plenty of room to move around and do close quarters as well as

MOUT type of tactics, cqc does need improvement in terms of movement, and some things like better throwing anim like an underhand roll, or a short toss.

I think he has some valid points, some things are and have already been covered in one of the patches, but more could be done.

[metalcraze 290]

There is some problem with entering narrow doorways while strafing through it, you just get stuck

Use shorter weapon?

[Lonestar 11]

Use ShackTac Movement.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=109628

[Drumheller 19]

Use shorter weapon?

Have you tested this in game? It doesn't make a difference. Not to mention the fact that in real life you passively lower your weapon and bring it back up when you go through a doorway. I speak from experience.

[EDcase 87]

in real life you passively lower your weapon and bring it back up when you go through a doorway. I speak from experience.

You can lower/raise weapon ingame too and that solves the collision problem.

It just has to be on a key that you can use quickly ;)

[max power 21]

There's nothing in this thread that hasn't been suggested before, really. Your best bet it to search and vote on tickets in the CIT.

[coopr 10]

You can lower/raise weapon ingame too and that solves the collision problem.

It just has to be on a key that you can use quickly ;)

Try that in pvp no matter how fast you can you use that key y.ou still end dead in the doorway

[Defunkt 431]

Try that in pvp no matter how fast you can you use that key y.ou still end dead in the doorway

Which is precisely how it should be, don't get stuck in doorways mid-engagement. How would it improve the game to provide the nit who made a poor tactical choice with the opportunity to BS his way out of it?

[celery 8]

Entering an enemy occupied building in Arma 2 is always a poor tactical choice because the way the game handles cqb is really harder than life. IRL and in cqb oriented games you will have a much easier time throwing a grenade where you want it and then navigating doorways and not getting stuck trying to turn around in the middle of a flight of stairs.

[maturin 12]

In real life people will aim at the doors and shoot in an instant, whereas AI reflexes are atrocious.

And if you are clearing a building of human players, you are aided by the fact that fragmentation grenades work through walls and floors.

So it all evens out because of the crappiness.

[celery 8]

And if you are clearing a building of human players, you are aided by the fact that fragmentation grenades work through walls and floors.

So it all evens out because of the crappiness.

Grenades can also sink under floors and explode harmlessly.

[coopr 10]

Which is precisely how it should be, don't get stuck in doorways mid-engagement. How would it improve the game to provide the nit who made a poor tactical choice with the opportunity to BS his way out of it?

What is a poor tactical choice of entering a house trough a door.. you can't go true windows in arma2 or mantle up some small roof. Blowing a wall out of the building could be to dangerous if there are hostages inside. So what do you do? lasermark the place and drop a gbu on top?

It would definatly improve the game..

[Defunkt 431]

So what do you do?

I don't really care what you decide to do but why do you suppose every situation must afford you an even chance? Your opponent is probably holed up in the building because he expects this will improve the odds in his favour which is right and proper, the last thing he deserves is you and your gun no-clipping through the door frame.

[celery 8]

I don't really care what you decide to do but why do you suppose every situation must afford you an even chance? Your opponent is probably holed up in the building because he expects this will improve the odds in his favour which is right and proper, the last thing he deserves is you and your gun no-clipping through the door frame.

Is someone asking for an even chance for the attackers? Currently they have close to zero chance against a human defender. If reality was like Arma 2, SWAT teams would change staff after every incident, and half of the US infantry in Iraq would be in coffins (or whole cities razed).

[Defunkt 431]

If a SWAT team assaulted a building containing another equally well-equipped and well-trained SWAT team then yes, things are going to get bloody, particularly for those doing the entry. The fact that this doesn't happen in RL isn't because it's as easy to attack a building as defend it, it's because SWAT teams stack every other advantage available in their favour (training, equipment, intel).

[coopr 10]

because it's as easy to attack a building as defend it

Thats what the suggestion is about... make this also happen in arma2.

[Defunkt 431]

...isn't because it's as easy to attack a building as defend it

Because it isn't.

I'd welcome each and every improvement to the game provided it's grounded in realism including more fluid movement but I do find that 'P-v-P Players' (I'd count myself as one) often subscribe to the curious notion that the game is somehow broken if they don't always have a 50/50 chance of winning any situation.

[celery 8]

Because it isn't.

I'd welcome each and every improvement to the game provided it's grounded in realism including more fluid movement but I do find that 'P-v-P Players' (I'd count myself as one) often subscribe to the curious notion that the game is somehow broken if they don't always have a 50/50 chance of winning any situation.

Now you're strawmanning. Point us to the part where someone asked for a 50/50 chance to prevail in indoors combat.

[Defunkt 431]

No. "Because it isn't" (...anything less than suicidal to enter a building held by an equally well-armed and well-trained opponent) is my point. The rest is simply an observation about this type of recurrent discussion.

[Ollie1983 10]

The way CQB is handled in Arma 2 is utterly pants and one reason not to get involved in it. Its like two men trying to box each other when half buried in thick treacle. The game just can't do it. Its far from rainbow six.

In reality the defender of a building would have a massive advantage and the attackers would need a massive advantage in numbers and firepower to succeed. A smart defender is going to fire at you long before you even get outside the door or walls of a building.

The way I clear buildings in Insurgency is by holding the walk button and having my weapon down the sights all the time, using full auto I put brief bursts through door ways and walls. Grenades are a waste of time because there is never enough of them.

The problem is having a rainbow 6 style mechanic to the game for CQB would make the longer range engagements (IE the bread and butter of the game) much too easy, so its a question of balance i guess.

Having more firepower or load outs is not an option, having blufor level an entire town to clear it of hostiles is unrealistic because it would never be done and they would never have the resources for it.

[max power 21]

The problem is having a rainbow 6 style mechanic to the game for CQB would make the longer range engagements (IE the bread and butter of the game) much too easy

Now there's a claim that needs to be substantiated.

[nkenny 1051]

I've got a feeling that the blooming (retracting-expainding) reticule of the R6 and Ghost Recon (obviously pre GR:AW and Rb6:Vegas) would make for a brilliant gameplay. Well done crosshairs do more for gameplay than poorly implemented Ironsights.

As it stands Arma2's ironsight system as a total package (models, animations, effect) are tolerable though hardly ideal. Unsurprisingly Sentrystudios Infiltration (on the UT engine) did a much better job. Well on most of the weapons.

A good ironsight system must:

- have natural and crip animations

- have weapon models with actually easy-to-use ironsights. M16/m203 (poor) vs FN FAL (excellent)

- be implemented in such a way that they are actually used!

-k

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I still play Rogue Spear quite frequently.