Arma 2's Great Physics Engine!

[MulleDK19 21]

I am sorry, i thought you said basic.

A basic physics engine is an engine that implements the three laws of physics. Which the engine in ARMA 2 clearly does not.

[rowdied 44]

That's simply a bad implementation.

Oh, yea, because Dragon Rising is a physics engine for ARMA 2. Retard...

Carefull with the name calling it will get you a ban.

And do pray tell... what are these Three laws of physics you mention?

[BasileyOne 10]

Carefull with the name calling it will get you a ban.

And do pray tell... what are these Three laws of physics you mention?

i guess he mean : 1. "butterflies should be flied wonderfully" 2. "birds should be visible, circling". 3. "board should roar, attacking your vehicles"

so, Arma2 would be PERFECT !! :P

/kidding.

i guess he would mean something like this http://srikant.org/core/phy11sep.html

:-P

p.s.

especially like "black hole" part and applied quantum theory. can't wait to see ready to use them in tactical wargame, such as Arma2 ;-)

[froggyluv 2136]

I think he meant 3 laws of motion -the one with for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...or something to that effect.

I dont think it's so uncalled for to hope for enhancing the physics department of Arma.

[BasileyOne 10]

I think he meant 3 laws of motion -the one with for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...or something to that effect.

I dont think it's so uncalled for to hope for enhancing the physics department of Arma.

thats really resource-consuming.

good physics can consume lot more CPU horsepower than GFX and AI, together.

and scalability - thing that make Arma2/VR possible can easily disappear in that case.

p.s. i put serious hope in iNtel Larrabee chip, sheduled to 22nm waffers.

with appropriate CAL and OpenCL drivers, its can accelerate physics and biz computation CONSIDERABLY.

[froggyluv 2136]

I believe you. Thats why I think implemeting a ragdoll or a more fluid and loose limbed animation system would better flesh out the physics that are already in place.

For instance (to rephrase myself): for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction

...so when a soldier is shot (not killed), there should be a noticable effect on his body such as a flinch, knockdown etc...something is better then nothing. So if Soft Body Dynamics is out of the question, add it thru the animation system.

Personally I believe most people get that bad physics feeling watching corpses cause flying tanks are more entertaining. Like mentioned above -corpses that are locked rigidly overhead to an inch of material defying gravity are a turn off as are bodies exploding outwards with adult onset rigor mortis set in.

Adding weight to corpses has been done albeit a crude version by solus for his SLX mod -now the limbs just have to be unhinged :D

A newly enhanced physics model would be dreamy of course but Id settle for the fluid animations and let the physics come in baby steps little by little.

[MulleDK19 21]

Carefull with the name calling it will get you a ban.

And do pray tell... what are these Three laws of physics you mention?

I meant the three laws of motion. I was thinking about "Laws of physics" while typing it.

Like trying to type yellow, while you say green.

[Cookieeater 10]

Ragdolls are out of the question, it would look too laggy in multiplayer. What Bohemia Interactive should implement is the Bullet physics engine.

izyZ1kKQzbE

It's used in a lot of stuff(Shrek, GTA IV, 3dMark). GTA IV had cars using the simulation and it had really good vehicle physics. In an ArmA II battlefield, i'd say it's safe to assume there are around only 10 vehicles that are constantly moving at one time in a video game. I use "constantly moving", as the server only has to compute physics on a vehicle when it's moving. It wouldn't be that hard to simulate 10 vehicles moving out there in the field at the same time(Car, Tank).

[maddogx 13]

Ragdolls are out of the question, it would look too laggy in multiplayer.

How so? You're apparently assuming that every single body part would need to be synchronized across all clients, which simply isn't the case. As long as the torso is in roughly the same position, each client can calculate the limbs individually and achieve similar results.

I'm not saying ragdoll in a game like Arma2 is 100% possible, but it might be, if implemented properly.

[BasileyOne 10]

"if implemented properly" ragdoll eat too much resources, necessarily for other things on nowdays HW caps.

[MulleDK19 21]

"if implemented properly" ragdoll eat too much resources, necessarily for other things on nowdays HW caps.

You'd need a REALLY slow machine to have any kind of problems with ragdolls, whatsoever.

It's not like there's a hundred soldiers that die at once, every second...

Ragdolls are out of the question, it would look too laggy in multiplayer.

Ragdolls in ARMA 2 are as feasable as any other game. Multiplayer or not.

What Bohemia Interactive should implement is the Bullet physics engine.

Sure. That's kind of what this thread is about. Real physics. And Bullet Physics is also going to implement DMM2 soon.

Edited April 15, 2011 by MulleDK19

[BasileyOne 10]

even w/o ragdoll, we got more or less frequently players/bots, stuck in wrong animation post-mortem, online.

did you saw pilots, planes, vehicles, riding skies hungreds meters above ground ? or manequin-solider, dead alive and being shot hungreds times, before both you and bots realise thats he's dead ?

i mean, if you multiply [necessarily]increased refresh overhead, [slightly grown]memory consumption footprint on MP lag/desync, you get what we mean.

except if BIS implement loved by cheaters client-side interpolation, which also tremendously increase desync impact on gameplay smotthness, ironically[more frequently than help].

resume: physics is not matter. if you NEED it, you bought WRONG game.

[max power 21]

You'd need a REALLY slow machine to have any kind of problems with ragdolls, whatsoever.

It's not like there's a hundred soldiers that die at once, every second...

Ragdolls in ARMA 2 are as feasable as any other game. Multiplayer or not.

Unless it matters which position the ragdoll lands in because it provides cover, like in ArmA. In physics engines, there is a certain random element to the physics behaviour. If this was implemented in ArmA, you would need everyone to see the same end result. This would necessitate in increase in network traffic no matter how you solved the problem.

[whisper 0]

In an ArmA II battlefield, i'd say it's safe to assume there are around only 10 vehicles that are constantly moving at one time in a video game. I use "constantly moving", as the server only has to compute physics on a vehicle when it's moving. It wouldn't be that hard to simulate 10 vehicles moving out there in the field at the same time(Car, Tank).

Very low number when you consider a 48 players Warfare server, if you ask me.

That's 24 groups, 1 or 2 vehicle per group, add to this all the Resistance groups and tanks in towns....

Far more than 10 @ a time.

Add in the ragdoll that can happen during a town wipe through artillery or explosive shelling, tanks mowing down forests, etc...

All this can happen at the same time.

This is the boundary situations RV engine has to deal with. Other engines don't.

[MulleDK19 21]

Unless it matters which position the ragdoll lands in because it provides cover, like in ArmA. In physics engines, there is a certain random element to the physics behaviour. If this was implemented in ArmA, you would need everyone to see the same end result. This would necessitate in increase in network traffic no matter how you solved the

problem.

Cover? Bodies in ARMA 2 are not even replicated in multiplayer. They won't play the same death animation, and therefore not be in the same place.

Like said previously, there are several ways of handling ragdolls in a multiplayer game. Either only replicate the torso, leaving the legs approx. in the right position, or replicate the entire ragdoll.

Replicating a ragdoll is not much of a problem. It only becomes a problem if many people are dying at once.

*endless stream of crap*

Please shut up. You make me sick.

Edited April 15, 2011 by MulleDK19

[walker 0]

Hi all

Ah pooh

The Laaaaag Doll physics crowd whining again.

Laaaaag Doll physics does not work in MP for more than a handfull of clients and is completely un-synchronizable across the Internet.

NO ONE HAS EVER DONE IT TO DATE.

Does that not give you a hint as to what the problems are?

All those masses of games companies and not one has got it to work for more than a handful of clients and entities. Every game that sports Laaaaag Doll physics turns it off in MP; because really real world physics, as in the physics that makes your electricity work, does not allow the speed of light to be exceeded and inserts chaos into complex physics calculations.

Do the maths.

Show me an implementation of Laaaaag Doll physics used on just one Multi player Internet game with as few as 100 entities and just say 32 players.

Heck I do not even think it can be done with just 16 entities all of them players.

You will not find one game that does it MP, because there are not any.

Really people get a clue walker

[MulleDK19 21]

Hi all

Ah pooh

The Laaaaag Doll physics crowd whining again.

Laaaaag Doll physics does not work in MP for more than a handfull of clients and is completely un-synchronizable across the Internet.

NO ONE HAS EVER DONE IT TO DATE.

Does that not give you a hint as to what the problems are?

All those masses of games companies and not one has got it to work for more than a handful of clients and entities. Every game that sports Laaaaag Doll physics turns it off in MP; because really real world physics, as in the physics that makes your electricity work, does not allow the speed of light to be exceeded and inserts chaos into complex physics calculations.

Do the maths.

Show me an implementation of Laaaaag Doll physics used on just one Multi player Internet game with as few as 100 entities and just say 32 players.

Heck I do not even think it can be done with just 16 entities all of them players.

You will not find one game that does it MP, because there are not any.

Really people get a clue walker

You have no idea what you're talking about. I know more games that support ragdolls in multiplayer than not.

[walker 0]

You have no idea what you're talking about. I know more games that support ragdolls in multiplayer than not.

MulleDK19

OK I WILL BITE.

Which games?

NAME THEM

How many entities?

How many players?

How big is the terrain?

Skeptically Walker

Edited April 15, 2011 by walker

[froggyluv 2136]

@Walker -again with the light speed. :rolleyes:

Nobody's demanding an exact replica of the complete nature of physics in our known universe -just an improved representation.

Mount and Blade Warband added ragdoll physics and Ive played in MP rooms with 220 people -was there lag? You bet. Was it awesome? insanely so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9F_pFkTklU

Again Im for any animation system be it ragdoll, Bullet, whatever that will give more fluidity and proper gravity to the living and the dead in Arma2.To say that this is an impossibilty is absurd and pretty ridiculous. Start with singleplayer and gradually build the MP component when the new hyper-lite series of interwebz comes out :p

Edit: Never played but it looks like Battleground Europe has also added Ragdoll:

Edited April 15, 2011 by froggyluv
Wrong video :)

[MulleDK19 21]

MulleDK19

OK I WILL BITE.

Which games?

NAME THEM

It would be easier to name the games that doesn't.

How many entities?

How many players?

How big is the terrain?

Now you're adding conditions.

Fact is, a lot of games do it. I've never made a game without it.

[Dwarden 1125]

@Walker -again with the light speed. :rolleyes:

Nobody's demanding an exact replica of the complete nature of physics in our known universe -just an improved representation.

Mount and Blade Warband added ragdoll physics and Ive played in MP rooms with 220 people -was there lag? You bet. Was it awesome? insanely so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9F_pFkTklU

Again Im for any animation system be it ragdoll, Bullet, whatever that will give more fluidity and proper gravity to the living and the dead in Arma2.To say that this is an impossibilty is absurd and pretty ridiculous. Start with singleplayer and gradually build the MP component when the new hyper-lite series of interwebz comes out :p

Edit: Never played but it looks like Battleground Europe has also added Ragdoll:

Mount & Blade : Warband

if the playe dies the ragdoll become ghost item, transparent to any damage (any swing or projectile flies thru it as it has no hitbox or volume)

the ragdol effect is also completely clientside and not MP synchronized ...

the only thing sychronized is the where was weapon dropped on moment of death ...

Edited April 16, 2011 by Dwarden

[Cookieeater 10]

Very low number when you consider a 48 players Warfare server, if you ask me.

That's 24 groups, 1 or 2 vehicle per group, add to this all the Resistance groups and tanks in towns....

Far more than 10 @ a time.

Add in the ragdoll that can happen during a town wipe through artillery or explosive shelling, tanks mowing down forests, etc...

All this can happen at the same time.

This is the boundary situations RV engine has to deal with. Other engines don't.

I'm not saying add ragdolls. Also, simulating 30-40 physics at a time wouldn't be that difficult for a server.

[froggyluv 2136]

if the playe dies the ragdoll become ghost item, transparent to any damage (any swing or projectile flies thru it as it has no hitbox or volume)

Thats true and brings much angst to us MP'ers. When two guys are swinging at an enemy from different angles and the enemy is killed, his body is not there to soak up the next swing leading to TK's.

the ragdol effect is also completely clientside and not MP synchronized ...

the only thing sychronized is the where was weapon dropped on moment of death

Are you sure about that? If so how are we able to all see and laugh at dead bodies that died in a hilarity of contortions together?

[metalcraze 290]

I'm not saying add ragdolls. Also, simulating 30-40 physics at a time wouldn't be that difficult for a server.

Yes. In a corridor game with small levels like in some CoD. And yet corridor games don't do even that.

How about 3000-4000 on a typical ArmA2's map?

Because anything less will make for different kind of topics - "oh why one barrel did roll on the ground and another one just fell down through the wall like it has no physics?! baaaawwww"

Edited April 16, 2011 by metalcraze

[max power 21]

Cover? Bodies in ARMA 2 are not even replicated in multiplayer. They won't play the same death animation, and therefore not be in the same place.

What are you even talking about? Of course they are. I have had multiple instances where hiding behind the bodies of my friends in multiplayer has allowed me to survive. In fact, every broken tree, fence, and flattened bush is replicated in multiplayer, owing to the very long 'receiving...' screens for people joining late in a game.