Realism VS. Arcade style fun

[Smurf 12]

I don't think they intend to fully implement avionics and button pushing in cockpit.

[2]

DCS BS took years to be done, and was just 1 helo....

[Archosaurusrev 12]

There should be an option for Extreme realism and ArmA2 "realism".

I have been waiting for a good helicopter sim.

[samb 15]

[2]

DCS BS took years to be done, and was just 1 helo....

But on the other hand there are many very well developed addons for FSX that took less than that to be finished and polished. Plus BS had many complex military related systems to be simulated that can be omitted in TOH helicopters.

[whisper 0]

Well, if I'm not mistaken, they explicitely said they don't target full cockpit & avionnics realism. Don't expect DCS level.

[nightsta1ker 10]

Lets all keep in mind that the Hokum is an extremely complex aircraft with alot of systems and avionics that civil helicopters simply don't have. Replicating with accuracy a simple A/C and D/C electrical system, basic engine controls, flight controls and radios would not be too intimidating to accomplish. When you start looking at FLIR and targeting systems, autopilot etc. things start getting complicated. I do not expect every switch and button to be functional, nor do I feel it's necessary to create an immersive environment in the game. Keep in mind (and this is coming from a real world helo pilot) switch flicking is usually limited to startup and shutdown. The rest would be radio frequency changes which can be a bear depending on pilot workload. Helicopters do not fly themselves and taking hands off any control to mess with switches takes finesse. If they simulate an accurate startup and shutdown, and have some other basic avionics functions like com and nav radios, I will be VERY satisfied with that.

Thermalburn, if you are seriously considering a career as a military pilot, PM me, I have valuable advice and information for you should you choose to go down that path.

[thermalburn 10]

I don't think they intend to fully implement avionics and button pushing in cockpit.

And with that, i just lost every ounce of interest in this game...

[_michal 10]

My first post here, hi.

I'm a long time simmer, right now I play FSX, DCS and Rise of Flight mostly. If TakeOn is aimed to simulation fans, it has to be realistic, at least to FSX level in terms of avionics, with better flight dynamics.

I'm with thermalburn here, I really hope avionics and overall realism will be much higher than in ArmA2 helicopters. Otherwise I'm not interested...

[EricM 0]

And with that, i just lost every ounce of interest in this game...

Wait to fly low level with a good flight dynamics in a detailled environment a la Arma 2 and we'll talk about that.

I'm sure there will be increased cockpit interactivity and more relevant instruments than in Arma (where fuel is the only thing you need to check, and even that is not really crucial), but it's better to have a good flight experience than a good system simulation, IMHO.

Edited April 23, 2011 by EricM
typo

[Daniel 0]

My first post here, hi.

I'm a long time simmer, right now I play FSX, DCS and Rise of Flight mostly. If TakeOn is aimed to simulation fans, it has to be realistic, at least to FSX level in terms of avionics, with better flight dynamics.

I'm with thermalburn here, I really hope avionics and overall realism will be much higher than in ArmA2 helicopters. Otherwise I'm not interested...

It's already been stated it will be at a higher level of fidelity than the current Arma flight model.

Unfortunately, it won't have the crappy low-res terrain of the more popular flight sims. :( Shame. :p

it's better to have a good flight experience than a good system simulation

This.

Edited April 23, 2011 by Daniel

[_michal 10]

It's already been stated it will be at a higher level of fidelity than the current Arma flight model.

I know that. I've read most of press release about Take On.

Unfortunately, it won't have the crappy low-res terrain of the more popular flight sims. :( Shame. :p

But those terrains are 'slightly' bigger than 40x40km map ;)

I'm not here to bash BIS, ARMA or Take On. I appreciate what they did with ARMA, and I'm more than happy that they want to make a civilian flight sim. I just want to say what I'm interested in. I believe BIS want to hear our opinion, that's why Dwarden invited us here by posting on hovercontrol.

This.

Perfect simulator offers both - systems and flight experience.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Perfect simulator offers both - systems and flight experience.

Show me a perfect game/simulator, and I'll show you a flaw, or flaws. ;)

[_michal 10]

Of course there are flaws, each software has them, but you can always aim for the best product you can do. That's my point.

[Daniel 0]

Very fair points _michal, guess i'm just a little too excited about it!

[_michal 10]

Me too. I love DCS Black Shark, and I really like precision flying in FSX with HTR flight dynamics. When I saw Take On announcement just before 1st April I thought 'no, they can't be THAT cruel and make this kind of April Folls joke'.

Can't wait for TO:H.

Edited April 24, 2011 by _michal

[nightsta1ker 10]

It's not going to be a simulator. I think they have made that pretty clear. But it will be a game with higher fidelity. I think they know what both sides of the house want to see and now they need to find the middle ground. There are ALOT of people out there that will be very turned off if this turns into another Black Shark, with too many systems to figure out and a flight model that takes too much patience to master.

I'm a helicopter pilot, and naturally, I am hoping for the most realistic game possible here, but I am also a realist, and I don't expect it to be spot on. I will be happy if I can read the gauges, and the gauges actually TELL me something. I will be happy if I the basic functions necissary for flight do what they are supposed to. I will be happy if it handles like a helicopter. And I will be THRILLED to have some tasks to accomplish with it. The worst thing about FSX is that unless you have a great imagination, or are a genius with the Object Placement Tool, there is not a whole lot to do in FSX other than fly from point A to point B. I will sacrifice some system accuracy to be able to hang out the door and do some sling loads against the clock (time is money and helicopters are expensive by the hour!).

Besides, they stated in their interview that this is probably an in-between game and that it MAY turn into more of a simulator in later versions. But first, they need to produce a successful product. Hardcore helicopter simmers like us are the minority.

[celery 8]

I'd be most content with a solution that simulates flying on a level where the actual flying would be easy to learn and possible with mouse and keyboard (although much more detailed than in A2), and the challenge comes from knowing your aircraft's characteristics and performing properly in various tasks. In other words, it would simulate a learned pilot's intended actions within the limits of the aircraft's abilities. And that's where TOH fortunately seems to be going.

[samb 15]

I would rather like full blown realistic physics with option to tune it down for keyboard and mouse so anyone is pleased.

[nightsta1ker 10]

I would rather like full blown realistic physics with option to tune it down for keyboard and mouse so anyone is pleased.

This option would please everyone, including the hardcore simmers like us.

[Archosaurusrev 12]

I would LOVE an extreme hardcore mode!

I LOVE the feel of flipping switches and then feeling you've -really- started a chopper.

Not pressed Q :(.

[Beagle 684]

I would LOVE an extreme hardcore mode!

I LOVE the feel of flipping switches and then feeling you've -really- started a chopper.

Not pressed Q :(.

let's start easy...as logn as RPGs and other weapons have no at least somewhat a close to life flight profile and effectivity talking about flipping switches is a bit far off.

[nightsta1ker 10]

The most recent press release available on the forum clearly covers what BIS's intentions are to solve this problem. There will be a simple startup of 10 or so switches, which is realistic for a light-medium lift helicopter, and there will also be a beginner mode where you can just press a button and spin up. Flight model will be scalable as well. Seems they have it covered for both hardcore simmers and arcade gamers alike. Time will tell how well it pleases either side. Let's just wait for some more development to happen. It's clear that BIS is listening and is doing their best to give us all what we want.

[metalcraze 290]

BIS should check out Falcon 4

One of the most hardcore flight sims ever yet it has a very scalable difficulty.

And yep - it has a full start up sequence which either can be completed or skipped if the player wishes so.

BIS should do the same

[nightsta1ker 10]

BIS should check out Falcon 4

One of the most hardcore flight sims ever yet it has a very scalable difficulty.

And yep - it has a full start up sequence which either can be completed or skipped if the player wishes so.

BIS should do the same

You should read the latest article regarding the game. Seems to me it's already implemented.

[MD500Enthusiast 10]

Coming from a real life pilot, the switch flipping doesn't have to be spot on, just the basics for start up and shutdown and maybe some emergency protocols. Avionics aren't that neccessary because we'll be flying VFR (visual flight rules) like 95% of the time anyway. What does have to be realistic is how a helicopter handles, after playing the community preview 84444 or whatever there's still work to do with handling characteristics but i think it's a leaps and bounds ahead of what arma2 helicopter handling currently feels like. Another point that has already been made is the mission aspect of the game, unlike FSX or any of the other sims out there we should be given a purpose to fly the helo such as firefighting, transport, medivac, TV news, police chase that can be done with multiple helicopters in multiplayer. I've preordered the game as soon as i saw BiS is making this game because you guys continually make improvements to the game or at least make the game moddable so we have that freedom to change it to our likings. I see huge promise in this game and if you can implement the flight model into arma 3 then BiS will hold the title for best military sim/game for a very long time and potentially lead the way for other developers to follow in your foot steps for years to come. Pat on the back for a job well done so far BiS! I salute you!