Japan hit by 9.0-magnitude earthquake and tsunami

[walker 0]

Hi Beagle

It depended where the fallout fell. In the UK it was mainly over the Peak District. They threw away the milk from the area after it was detected there and meat from the cattle and sheep was condemned.

In the Finland Norway and Sweden the Reindeer meat that the Sami people relied on was banned from human consumption for almost a decade. I remember discussing it with them when I stopped with them for a while.

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/sami/dieda/socio/chernobyl.htm

I wonder what it would do to the American beef industry?

Even if the US government and beef industry adopted the higher limit does any one really think the cancer conscious American public would adopt the higher radiation acceptance policy?

And what about the USA's West coast fishery, the salmon crab and shellfish?

FULL TRANSCRIPT OF THE JAPANESE PRIME MINISTERS ANNOUNCEMENT

http://tokyo.japantimes.co.jp/post/en/1593/A+quick+transcription+from+Prime+Minister+Kan+s+11+AM+press+conference+about+the+Fukushima+Reactors.html

As I prommised to get it in the earlier thread.

I believe this transcipt is mixing up Reactors with Reactor Plants. I think the earlier translation in my previous post is more accurate though not complete.

Kind Regards walker

Edited March 15, 2011 by walker

[Beagle 684]

Wow I dotn get it...why is japanese news lagging so far behind german news?

Reminds me strongly of the information policy the russian had in 1986. The whole accident was widely downplayed in the whole Eastrn block...It was the year when more vegetables as usual was on est german markets...it was the greenstuff that was unsellable in west europe...and it was a good year for mushrooms. The altitude of the blowout translates into the range, so I don't think the clouds will make it far in this case.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Beagle

[Hans Ludwig 0]

60-Minutes Piece on Cold Fusion

7OabYImeDSc

[max power 21]

More whipe overs:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/13/world/asia/satellite-photos-japan-before-and-after-tsunami.html?hp

[noubernou 77]

The chance of a large radiation release, the size of Chernobyl, or even close, is very slim. The plants are still cooling, even as we speak. There is no longer fission reactions occurring, it is just the thermal decay of the cesium and iodine isotopes in the reactor core that are an issue right now, and giving them a few more days of cooling and things will be much more stable and secure.

Fires in rod pool are bad, but even then they are not nearly as dangerous as other issues. Remember those rods are still fully intact in those pools and not at risk of melting down, and are only activating other elements, not releasing their own nuclear products.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Authorities in Sendai province are telling the population DO NOT DRINK THE TAP WATER and to take Iodine now!

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/VIDEO-Seriousness-Of-Japan-Nuclear-Incident-Increases-Radiation-Has-Leaked-From-Fukushima-Plant/Article/201103315952404?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15952404_VIDEO%3A_Seriousness_Of_Japan_Nuclear_Incident_Increases_Radiation_Has_Leaked_From_Fukushima_Plant

There is now a 30 KM no Fly Zone round the plant and in Kanagawa prefecture near Tokyo some 270 miles from the plant radiation radiation levels have so far risen to 9 time normal:

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110315/japan-nuclear-reactors-110315/20110315/?hub=CalgaryHome

And now the spent fuel rod containment pond has started to boil!

http://www.ksnt.com/news/world/story/Nuclear-official-warns-spent-fuel-storage-pool/_eAvjifHsU2GrL5GD9S2Hg.cspx

The spent fuel rods contain plutonium.

***UPDATE***

Various news sources reporting that the Spent Fuel Rod pond is on fire!

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3164927.htm

Looking into this I was shocked to find that reactor 3 at Fukushima is a MOX reactor that uses a mix of both uranium and plutonium.

This has several serious inherent implications. The larger explosion was at the number 3 reactor. Plutonium is far more reactive, is far hotter than uranium, and takes much longer to cool.

Also I was shocked to find that the spent rod ponds, the ones with high levels of plutonium, are held above the reactors! Eg; above the explosions.

A high concentration Plutonium leak is far more serious than the Uranium we initially thought.

If this is true and I do need to double check, then this disaster unfolding dwarfs Chernobyl.

***UPDATE***

There has been a fourth blast at Reactor 2

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-15/-worst-case-nuclear-disaster-in-japan-hangs-on-string-of-unlikely-events.html

The French, German and Chinese embassy in Tokyo recommended their citizens leave the city.

Walker :(

Edited March 15, 2011 by walker

[Tonci87 163]

This would be seriously bad!

[mosh 0]

Actually, it looks like "2005" maybe even worse (considering nuclear crisis)... except they seem to be a bit more prepared, cooperative and no Blackwater is needed to prevent looting...

They are very cooperative and humane to each other in a time of crisis. Other nations better learn from that... including my own.

I just hope that they get all the help they need because they would do the same for almost any other country.

As far as the nuclear situation goes... damn, hold on people. :(

[walker 0]

Hi all

An IAEA report said that radiation earlier today reached 400 millisieverts per hour earlier in the day. Staff from the plant are being treated for serious radiation poisoning.

The IAEA Director General will now be issuing a daily briefing on Japan

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/statements/2011/amsp2011n006.html

I have confirmed that reactor 3 is a MOX reactor

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-20042852-76.html

Plutonium also has a lower melting point than Uranium.

Why is a Meltdown so significant?

In the case of a meltdown the criticality of the nuclear reaction becomes uncontrolled. What previously was nuclear fuel as pellets kept far enough apart that the particle cascade is managed and with moderators controlling that reaction is no longer the case. An amorphous mass of plutonium or uranium falls to the bottom of the reactor and becomes a self sustaining reaction. The hope then is that it mixes with molten steel concrete and the zirconium in the fuel rods etc called Corium so that it potentially maintains subcriticality.

At that point though all bets are off.

From looking at this description of what happens in a Nuclear Meltdown it would appear that, that is what is happening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown

A so called Doomsday scenario.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marvin-resnikoff/fukushima-nuclear-meltdown-japan_b_835932.html

Walker

Edited March 15, 2011 by walker

[STALKERGB 6]

A so called Doomsday scenario.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marvin-resnikoff/fukushima-nuclear-meltdown-japan_b_835932.html

The article seems factually incorrect, surely by the nature of what a SCRAM is the plant's reactors can be (and were) shut down. Unlike the writer's claim that "you cannot shut down a nuclear power plant". Obviously there is an amount of heat decay from a small amount of fission product decay but all intents and purposes it is shut down. His background radiation figures seem very low as well, more like 2.5 mSv.

DO NOT DRINK THE TAP WATER and to take Iodine now!

They said that on day one didn't they?...

The chance of a large radiation release, the size of Chernobyl, or even close, is very slim.

This ^

[walker 0]

Hi STALKERGB

The 400 millisievert per hour report was from the IAEA Japan Earthquake Update (15 March 2011, 05:15 UTC) as I said:

Japan Earthquake Update (15 March 2011, 05:15 UTC)

Japanese authorities informed the IAEA that there has been an explosion at the Unit 2 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi plant. The explosion occurred at around 06:20 on 15 March local Japan time.

Japanese authorities also today informed the IAEA at 04:50 CET that the spent fuel storage pond at the Unit 4 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is on fire and radioactivity is being released directly into the atmosphere.

Dose rates of up to 400 millisievert per hour have been reported at the site. The Japanese authorities are saying that there is a possibility that the fire was caused by a hydrogen explosion.

The IAEA is seeking further information on these developments.

The IAEA continues to liaise with the Japanese authorities and is monitoring the situation as it evolves.

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html

The instructions not to drink tap water were AFAIK new.

Though most staff have been evacuated 50 to 70 voluteer staff are risking the 400 millisievert per hour doses to try to prevent the doomsday scenario taking place. Several are allready seriously ill.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/15/fukushima-50-workers-nuclear-plant

Naoto Kan, the Japanese prime minister aparently read the Executives of Tokyo Power the riot act after they failed to inform him about an explosion at the plant for more than an hour.

He also warned them that if they took their staff out of the plant without it being safely shutdown as they had apparently been planning, then their company would no longer exist; personaly if I was him I would send all the senior executives there until it was fixed, I think it would help focus their minds.

If the company executives are hiding things like explosions at anuclear power plant from the Prime Minister of Japan, what more are they hiding from the general public?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7d73a59a-4f2a-11e0-9038-00144feab49a.html?ftcamp=rss#axzz1GhRsJUe5

Kind Regards walker

Edited March 15, 2011 by walker

[mrcash2009 0]

480+ earthquakes in one week:

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/145_40.php

BTW I wonder if the nuclear scare will be capitalised on with drug manufacturers (to places elsewhere in the world), hmmm.

[walker 0]

Hi all

There has been a second fire at Fukushima and some reports say yet another explosion.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/03/new-fire-reported-at-fukushima-reactor-no-4/1

The Japanese Prime Minister has given up on the Power Company executives, who were not keeping him informed and hiding facts from him, and he has therefor taken direct command of the emergency program. I suggest he drafts the Power Company Executives as Bio Bots.

One of his first acts was a request for technical help from the US, not something he would do lightly, and apparently something power company executives had failed to do.

Walker

Edited March 15, 2011 by walker

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/145_40_eqs.php

[Beagle 684]

and apparently something power company executives had failed to do.

back in the time when Japan was more civilzed the more honorfull men in charge practized seppuku in such cases.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The Number Two Reactor Shell has been Breached and apparently two explosions not just one as I posted earlier.

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_645618.html

Smoke has been seen rising from the plant.

Walker

Edited March 15, 2011 by walker

[W0lle 1051]

Hi all

The Number Two Reactor Shell has been Breached and apparently two explosions not just one as I posted earlier.

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_645618.html

Walker

And he can tell that for sure from his position in France while the Japanese on location can't.

I'm impressed by how many people these days can tell facts from the safety of their armchairs some thousands miles away.

[walker 0]

Hi Wolle

The French are being briefed by the Japanese Government, as it says in that report and confirmed in other sources and they have been monitoring the plant via satellites more or less from the beginning as have the US and Russians and the Chinese; just as you would expect, heck even the Indians are supposed to monitoring it via satellite.

The Indians joined, the French, Germans and Chinese in evacuating their nationals today.

As I said smoke was seen rising from the plant after the 2nd fire

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Resource-Wars/2011/03/15/Japans-nuclear-power-crisis-escalates/UPI-14331300218202/

News services are being shifted away from the area and 30Km no fly zone is being enforced. Latest pictures are long distance and blurry.

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpps/news/news-crews-move-away-from-nuclear-plant-dpgonc-km-20110315_12333656

The roof of reactor 4 is cracked as a result of the first fire

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/fresh-fire-breaks-out-at-japan-reactor/story-e6frfku0-1226022270006

Some reports are saying 5 explosions and two fires others are saying 4 explosions and 3 fires, either way its fucked.

This page gives a fairly good potted summary of what is confirmed to have happened though it is a few hours out of date.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/rooted/2011/03/16/japans-nuclear-crisis-the-technical-facts/

Don't know how, but US Navy personnel have been exposed to radiation and have been issued anti-radiation pills.

http://www.telegram.com/article/20110315/NEWS/110319796

If they are all the way in Tokyo over 200 miles from the Fukushima it is just weired, maybe they were monitoring it on the QT? Might also explain the French knowledge, it is the kind of job some one might be sent to do. "We are not sure the Japanese Government is telling us everything, go find out what is happening; here is a geiger counter.", "Err can I have some lead lined underpants?" I suppose the conversation went.

Walker

Edited March 15, 2011 by walker

[Hans Ludwig 0]

back in the time when Japan was more civilzed the more honorfull men in charge practized seppuku in such cases.

LOL I was about to say that, but you beat me to it.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The lastest CNN report on Anderson Cooper 360 says six reactors are now involved in the disaster.

http://www.radioaustralianews.net.au/stories/201103/3165492.htm?desktop

And White smoke is now being seen coming from the No1 Reactor.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iT2P-8jXalwotAlf5cZ4587d_P5g?docId=CNG.1b66b90a32fb09ff0dc85f54c19c43bc.211

Walker

Edited March 16, 2011 by walker

[VanhA-ICON 11]

back in the time when Japan was more civilzed the more honorfull men in charge practized seppuku in such cases.

I think being civilized is what's downgraded many great nations.

Besides nowadays committing a seppuku ain't that easy because whoever would be assisting would get a murder charge for that.

Back to walker.

Oh, and W0lle is right about the "comfy chair news". Lot's of speculation just for the sake of being on top of the issue.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Increased radiation forced out the Fukushima workers but they have returned to try and avert the worst of the disaster.

http://www.channel4.com/news/japan-workers-abandon-nuclear-plant-as-smoke-rises

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-japan-quake-web-20110316,0,7587305.story

Right

The thousand pound Gorilla in the room that the Industry Experts don't want to talk about

Who can tell me the thousand pound Gorilla in the room in this interview?

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear/index.html

Hints:

Anderson Cooper asks the question

The Industry Expert hangs his head when it is asked

The Industry Expert obfuscates all around it for the rest of the interview

The Industry Expert does not answer the question

I mentioned this earlier in the thread.

Two Observation points for the first correct answer.

The OH Fuck chapter of the Nuclear Disaster plan

We just entered the last paragraph of the OH Fuck chapter of the Nuclear Disaster plan. The paragraph with the guy with a bucket trying to put out the nuclear fire.

http://news.iafrica.com/worldnews/714512.html

But apparently the radiation was so bad that the bucket men were forced to turn back.

http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbeyond/2011/03/update_spent_fuel_threatens_fu.html

Something similar happened at Chernobyl, you may remember, many of the helicopter crews died as did a senior scientist filming the core fire. This is a film by one of the journalists. His cameras all jammed and all the film was blured. Several other journalists doing the same thing died.

y7cjj0xYkW8

The BBC Horizon Documentry

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5384001427276447319#docid=-5968506788418521112

For those who have not seen it here is the film about The Battle of Chernobyl:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5384001427276447319#

Walker

Edited March 16, 2011 by walker
added some headings

[STALKERGB 6]

Something similar happened at Chernobyl,

The RBMK reactors in Chernobyl were still running when the meltdown occurred, so there sheer amount of radioactive material pumped out was far higher than is possible by Fukashima Daiichi melting down. The reason many crews suffered radiation poisoning was simply because they did not have the protection needed, which really was a sad state of affairs...

You'd hope (and I imagine it is the case) that these days it is much easier too cool a reactor safely even with raised radiation levels thanks to technology and the like. Funnily enough though, Fukashima Daiichi's reactors (well at least Unit 1 which is a BWR-3) is older than Chernobyl...

Edited March 16, 2011 by STALKERGB

[walker 0]

Hi STALKERGB

Can you say what the thousand pound gorilla in the room is?

While STALKERGB ponders that one; in the US they are placing nuclear radiation monitors along the Pacific coast.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/03/16/110507/more-nuclear-radiation-monitors.html

As the wind shifts from Tokyo and out into the Pacific.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/03/16/uk-japan-quake-wind-idUKTRE72F2AO20110316

Walker

Edited March 16, 2011 by walker

[STALKERGB 6]

Hi STALKERGB

Can you say what the thousand pound gorilla in the room is?

After watching the article I can only assume you mean the out-dated method for storing fuel rods?

Also I'm assuming "thousand pound gorilla" is basically an "elephant in the room"

Edited March 16, 2011 by STALKERGB