Steam - opinions and experiences survey

[CHB68 10]

Can I vote no a 3rd time and close the poll?

Seems it's obvious as to what the majority thinks.

Cheater ! :D

[Lonestar 11]

67.65% of the voters answered No Steam Only.

I think it's pretty clear-cut. :smile:

[ht-57 0]

For myself I Hate steam,

If I want to use the sim/game in a sp mode I don't want to have to Be online to do so. I also Don't want to have to repurchase the key to the sim again if I decide to uninstall then reinstall. Really what was the sense of buying the software to begin with? I also don't want patches being downloaded when I start a game, I much rather read the feed back about the latest patch and decide if I even want to patch. These things all happened to me with steam and after talking to thier customer service dept, Every title I had that was connected to steam went in the GARBAGE!!!! I will NEVER BUY another steam product again!

[noubernou 77]

For myself I Hate steam,

If I want to use the sim/game in a sp mode I don't want to have to Be online to do so. I also Don't want to have to repurchase the key to the sim again if I decide to uninstall then reinstall. Really what was the sense of buying the software to begin with? I also don't want patches being downloaded when I start a game, I much rather read the feed back about the latest patch and decide if I even want to patch. These things all happened to me with steam and after talking to thier customer service dept, Every title I had that was connected to steam went in the GARBAGE!!!! I will NEVER BUY another steam product again!

I've had Steam for ... well how long has it been out? I have NEVER had an issue. I have reinstalled countless times, on different hardware and never had an activation issue ever.

[radical.ghost 0]

Hi,

I am against "Steam only".

I live in Germany and have bought a few games via Steam and a few which I bought as retail version, but had to be activated with Steam,

among them:

"Aliens vs Predator 2010", which is a special story in means of censorship,

which I believe every german AVP(2010) player who wanted to purchase the

DLC's for that game knows quite well.

I'll use this game as example to substantiate my opinion.

The DLC's for AVP are just not purchaseble from Germany without gifting or other workarounds,

even if the core part was available as retail version here.

So you can buy, activate and play the game, but not the DLC's which are available via Steam only.

If I want to purchase the DLC's or even visit the Steam store page for AVP, I get the Message:

And this is just one example. There are other games available on Steam wich cannot be purchased in my country.

So if I want to buy games / content via Steam, they decide what games / content I may purchase / play and which not.

And it gets worse:

They could do this retroactively to games which you already own if they feel the need to do so.

(New laws for example which prohibit the possession of games with explicit content)

So if they want / have to revoke your permission to play your game, they could do it.

I understand that it is cheaper to distribute software through steam instead as retail, and that there are also advantages to the customer but the downsides are just too big for me.

I for myself won't buy any more games through Steam I could also live without.

Conclusion / Recommendation:

If a game is available for retail purchase and for purchase via Steam:

Buy the retail version.

(It's a lot nicer to have your favourite games in the shelf.)

Thank you for your attention,

r:g

Edited March 18, 2011 by radical.ghost

[h - 169]

I've had Steam for ... well how long has it been out? I have NEVER had an issue. I have reinstalled countless times, on different hardware and never had an activation issue ever.

So your saying that if you have never been, say, shot at (in real life) that means no-one else in the entire world has been either. :rolleyes:

I voted no.

I "have" Steam and a few games on it but would not want it to be the sole way to get a game.

I have Arma2 and OA + the DLC from Sprocket and to me that's just fine, no need/don't miss Steam..

[esco7800 10]

67.65% of the voters answered No Steam Only.

I think it's pretty clear-cut. :smile:

only 345 voted an of that only 235 people voted no, I'm sure if they only sold 345 games total they would be out of business. In like Maruk said "steam was a crucial part of the success of Arma 2 / Operation Arrowhead" So apparently many people disagree, But I digress, BI do whats best for your bottom line, in keep makeing great games.

[AnimalMother92 10]

only 345 voted an of that only 235 people voted no, I'm sure if they only sold 345 games total they would be out of business. In like Maruk said "steam was a crucial part of the success of Arma 2 / Operation Arrowhead" So apparently many people disagree, But I digress, BI do whats best for your bottom line, in keep makeing great games.

Indeed, to be honest the numbers voting in the poll aren't exactly impressive or indicative or what Arma players outside this community feel. Clearly there are quite a lot of happy Steam Arma players out there...

ARMA 2 Official Community Group - 5,440 Members

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ArmA_2

ARMA 2 Official Group - 12,165 Members

http://steamcommunity.com/games/arma2

ARMA 2: Operation Arrowhead Group - 8,648 Members

http://steamcommunity.com/games/arma2oa

ARMA 2: British Armed Forces Group - 2,041 Members

http://steamcommunity.com/games/arma2baf

ARMA 2: Private Military Company Group - 1,540 Members

http://steamcommunity.com/games/arma2pmc

...and those are just the ones that bothered the join the groups on Steam.

I understand that hating on Steam is cool and quite popular here, sure it's not perfect, but no distribution method is. The main issue seems to be many panicking about losing their freedom/choices when it comes to purchasing BIS' games. I suppose part of the issue is in the wording of the original post vs the poll. The option FOR Steam in the poll makes it sound like it's Steam-only. The original post implies the possibility for Steam enhancements, as evidenced by the word "or" (emphasis mine).

What is your opinion, should we make our games Steam only or provide Steam specific enhancements or not?

• should we make our games Steam only? // I think most people would agree that loss of choice == bad
  
• should we provide Steam specific enhancements? // Steam users have been put through some rough spots and improvements would be greatly appreciated
  
• should we not do these? // Continue on with retail+Sprocket+Steam etc and not improve Steam
  

As far as I can tell, those are the options being put forward in the original question. If everyone could just Deal With It and use Steam, the benefits to BIS could be really cool, but I don't think that's likely. As much as I like Steam, forcing things on people never really seemed cool. Don't take me as some über-Steam advocate, I've hated it at times (especially with late Arma patches and issues installing the DLC) but I think a lot of the hate here is unreasonable - the sky is not falling.

tl;dr

[xeno 234]

As far as I can tell, those are the options being put forward in the original question. If everyone could just Deal With It and use Steam, the benefits to BIS could be really cool, but I don't think that's likely. As much as I like Steam, forcing things on people never really seemed cool. Don't take me as some über-Steam advocate, I've hated it at times (especially with late Arma patches and issues installing the DLC) but I think a lot of the hate here is unreasonable - the sky is not falling.

Steam only = BIS will loose a lot of customers, specially in Europe.

It's easy as that.

As long as highspeed internet is not available for everbody even in industrial countries it's a dead end.

Beside that, as long as a Steam game costs 50 $ in the states but the same Steam game costs 50 € in europe, why even bother. I can get the same game for less money boxed, including delivery charges.

Xeno

[SWAT_CDN 0]

A repeat

“Publishers are creating a monster ***– we are telling suppliers to stop using Steam in their games.â€

The head of sales at a big-name digital service provider agreed: “At the moment the big digital distributors need to stock games with Steam. But the power resides with bricks and mortar retailers, they can refuse to stock these titles. Publishers are hesitant, but retail must put pressure on them.â€

Gaikai CEO David Perry told MCV Steam could become the games-equivilent of iTunes, where it dictates the terms of the market, not the other way around: “Steam has made it so easy for everyone and they have lots of users. But how long do you wait before you take control of your own digital strategy? Like with iTunes, at some point it’s going to be too late.â€

November 2010 Article link Below

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/41746/Reta...tens-Steam-ban

[Lonestar 11]

only 345 voted an of that only 235 people voted no, I'm sure if they only sold 345 games total they would be out of business. In like Maruk said "steam was a crucial part of the success of Arma 2 / Operation Arrowhead" So apparently many people disagree, But I digress, BI do whats best for your bottom line, in keep makeing great games.

Indeed, to be honest the numbers voting in the poll aren't exactly impressive or indicative or what Arma players outside this community feel. Clearly there are quite a lot of happy Steam Arma players out there..

You won't get away away so easily with that.

What's the purpose of throwing a poll if you don't respect the vote?

Our opinion doesn't count? 237 votes out of 348 is not enough?

If players outside the community want to voice their opinion, they must vote or post in this forum. They should get involved, we have voted because we care about the future of the franchise.

The Steam groups numbers is a flawed argument as I believe these groups can be joined even by players who don't own the game. Am I wrong? It shows there's a lot of ArmA sympathizers but if they are not buyers, why do we care?

[sbsmac 0]

What's the purpose of throwing a poll if you don't respect the vote?

Our opinion doesn't count? 237 votes out of 348 is not enough?

Umm - I don't this this is a democracy and neither do I remember Suma saying that the results of the poll were contractually binding ;-) I expect the results will be used to inform whatever decision BIS make but, as others have said, whether any poll here is truly reflective of the opinion of the entire ArmA customer base (including those who are currently only _prospective_ customers) is open to some debate.

[LeadCommando65 10]

Steam is good for small games that dont cost much. I dont like having my money bound to some voodoo digital platform I cant touch. Games get bound to one single account if this account is lost every game is lost (just one example: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1402102). I want to be sure and without worries that I can play the game whenever I want that.

It's good if you provide your games on steam, too, but dont make them steam only. Some of us still like the old way of buying and storing games.

[whisper 0]

No one answered my concerns about Steam yet, so my concerns remain (and they are not "fear or hate of Steam" at all)

[ArmAriffic 10]

NONONO!!!! i hate steam, to me it ruins games and sometimes you dont want to get a patch straight away but f*ckin steam wont let you play until you get it. please bi, dont ruin arma

Edited March 19, 2011 by ArmAriffic

[NoQuarter 0]

The option FOR Steam in the poll makes it sound like it's Steam-only.

To repeat (again) the root question <See: Topic Title> is...

Should BI make Arma 2 and/or future games Steam only?

Fairly cut and dried as I read it.

____

Haters, PEBCK, too dense to navigate through Steams activation/patch/mod hoops, conform or die, etc., etc, etc,.

Some of these Pro-Steam-only arguments are sort of comical, particularly when they are followed by the poster complaining about having to maintain a disc and a manual, and their locations.

[xxbbcc 6]

I will never, ever, under any circumstances buy anything from Steam.

It's a locked-down platform that requires an account and being online for playing plus a 3rd party controls what I can do with the property I purchased. Steam prices are also higher because they take an additional cut.

When I buy a game I don't want to support the distributor if I don't have to. As far as I'm concerned, Steam does nothing for me as a customer except rip me off and limit my rights.

For the time being I try to buy the BI games from Sprocket because:

1. I get the full game and I can back it up offline

2. The developer gets the full purchase price, not a distributor

3. Patching is simple, no need to re-download the entire game all the time

4. A 3rd party cannot interfere with my usage of my own property

If BIS wants to support Steam in addition to simple downloads I have no problem with that. I will leave immediately if BIS goes Steam-only.

[esco7800 10]

You won't get away away so easily with that.

What's the purpose of throwing a poll if you don't respect the vote?

Our opinion doesn't count? 237 votes out of 348 is not enough?

If players outside the community want to voice their opinion, they must vote or post in this forum. They should get involved, we have voted because we care about the future of the franchise.

The Steam groups numbers is a flawed argument as I believe these groups can be joined even by players who don't own the game. Am I wrong? It shows there's a lot of ArmA sympathizers but if they are not buyers, why do we care?

I understand steam is a sensitive issue, But it's simple, Steam is the future in there is no arguing that. Does steam have flaws, yes will it matter in the next 2-3 years no. As most PC game will be Steam only in I can guarantee that. So if you love PC gaming as much as I do, at some point you will have to accept that. Or stop playing PC game all together. I was just on steam in there was 3,000,000 people online enough said, In that's just today. I'm not saying all 3 million own arma. But when you put that in contexts, there were 235 people that voted no, even if you say out of 3,000,000 people who or online just today 0.1% own arma that still 3000 people, In when you compare that by 235 no votes it's still no contest. in I think there are way more then 0.1% of people on steam who own arma, Soooo again it's a profit thing in the end. But again this is just my opinion.

[demonized 20]

no steam please, addons, mods, drm issues, and its STEAM!!

hell no.

[celery 8]

I understand steam is a sensitive issue, But it's simple, Steam is the future in there is no arguing that. Does steam have flaws, yes will it matter in the next 2-3 years no. As most PC game will be Steam only in I can guarantee that. So if you love PC gaming as much as I do, at some point you will have to accept that. Or stop playing PC game all together.

Steam getting a monopoly is a very frightening thought. It would mean that it could take a bigger share of the games' prices and the devs/publishers would have no choice in the matter. It would also mean that there would be zero pressure to keep prices low.

Steam will be around in the future, but Steam isn't the future, only a part of it. That's why there's no reason for anything to be Steam exclusive.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I understand steam is a sensitive issue, But it's simple, Steam is the future in there is no arguing that. Does steam have flaws, yes will it matter in the next 2-3 years no. As most PC game will be Steam only in I can guarantee that. So if you love PC gaming as much as I do, at some point you will have to accept that. Or stop playing PC game all together. I was just on steam in there was 3,000,000 people online enough said, In that's just today. I'm not saying all 3 million own arma. But when you put that in contexts, there were 235 people that voted no, even if you say out of 3,000,000 people who or online just today 0.1% own arma that still 3000 people, In when you compare that by 235 no votes it's still no contest. in I think there are way more then 0.1% of people on steam who own arma, Soooo again it's a profit thing in the end. But again this is just my opinion.

I'm sorry but those calculations don't mean anything, 235 expressed their opinions while the others didn't. Moreover, you can be a steam customer one day and refusing a "steam only" solution.

[esco7800 10]

I'm sorry but those calculations don't mean anything, 235 expressed their opinions while the others didn't. Moreover, you can be a steam customer one day and refusing a "steam only" solution.

again that was just my opinion, in your right you can be a steam customer one day and refusing a "steam only" solution. But that would be your opinion. The only thing that matters is what BI decides in the end, do I really care one way or another, no. I was offering my opinion.

[celery 8]

again that was just my opinion, in your right you can be a steam customer one day and refusing a "steam only" solution. But that would be your opinion. The only thing that matters is what BI decides in the end, do I really care one way or another, no. I was offering my opinion.

It doesn't have to be said that something is someone's opinion when they themselves say it as such, in fact it can be seen as a fallacious argument in itself. You argued with numbers and prediction and they were answered with counterarguments. You have to respond accordingly if you wish that your arguments are given any weight and aren't considered false. That's how discussions work.

[esco7800 10]

It doesn't have to be said that something is someone's opinion when they themselves say it as such, in fact it can be seen as a fallacious argument in itself. You argued with numbers and prediction and they were answered with counterarguments. You have to respond accordingly if you wish that your arguments are given any weight and aren't considered false. That's how discussions work.

My point was made, there was no dispute, all he said was "I'm sorry but those calculations don't mean anything, 235 expressed their opinions while the others didn't. Moreover, you can be a steam customer one day and refusing a "steam only" solution." Sooo these no point in going back in forth, if you fill steam is not the way to go im sure yours in his disapproval have been noted. I made my argument in favor in some people have made theres against, enough said.

[Deadfast 43]

Indeed, to be honest the numbers voting in the poll aren't exactly impressive or indicative or what Arma players outside this community feel. Clearly there are quite a lot of happy Steam Arma players out there...

ARMA 2 Official Community Group - 5,440 Members

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ArmA_2

ARMA 2 Official Group - 12,165 Members

http://steamcommunity.com/games/arma2

ARMA 2: Operation Arrowhead Group - 8,648 Members

http://steamcommunity.com/games/arma2oa

ARMA 2: British Armed Forces Group - 2,041 Members

http://steamcommunity.com/games/arma2baf

ARMA 2: Private Military Company Group - 1,540 Members

http://steamcommunity.com/games/arma2pmc

...and those are just the ones that bothered the join the groups on Steam.

Those group numbers are by far less representative than this poll is.

You don't have to own Arma on Steam in order to join those groups. I for one don't and I am a member irregardless. On top of that BIS held small "competitions" to encourage people to join (if there are X members by Y we will release some OA pics).