tired of simplistic soldier status, this is supposed to be a simulation!

[johncage 30]

oh god, the dreaded toilet simulation. you can call this immersible, but it's really just superfluous. this is first and foremost a combat simulation, not a bathroom, ingestion and sleep simulation.

[max power 21]

I too am tired of this ridiculous charade of disguising ArmA 2 as a simulation game. When will developers incorporate an indicator so that I know when my soldier has a boner?

[nomadd 66]

I needed a good laugh and after reading this post and all the comments. I have been laughing my ass off. I won't go back and pick them out but there were some gems of comments made on this.

Very funny stuff.

One last thing, what if your guy is constipated? Can the medics hand out laxatives?

Nomadd

[tacticalnuggets 24]

I'm not suprised and surprised at the same time by most peoples reactions. What I'm suprised about is most people here seem to lack the ability to see the similarity between fuel for vehicles and water for soldiers. Everything else was no more than a joke to watch the community pick out certain parts of my introduction.

The problem with simulating guerrilla warfare in this game is the only thing soldiers need to live are guns and ammo. I'm sorry, but the operational range of a soldier is limited by primarily water. Most of the people here assume that you physically would take a drink out of your canteen, but I disagree. I think it should be a fuel bar for living vehicles.

[Cyteless 10]

As has been said in other parts of the thread, missions only ever last about 2-3 hours, and during that time you're mostly in combat, so you'll not have time for these features. It can be quite annoying enough to have a fat attack from jogging 10 metres, but adding fatigue from food would only make matters worse.

We're still talking about a computer game here, so there's going to be limitations. I feel that including features like a requirement for water, food and sleep is a bit extreme, considering some people just want to get on to shoot some bad guys.

Nice features as they may be to implement at times, I think it's something best left to modders and mission makers should they choose, and BIS should focus on things like bug fixing and features that contribute towards the combat side of things.

[dmarkwick 261]

I'm not suprised and surprised at the same time by most peoples reactions. What I'm suprised about is most people here seem to lack the ability to see the similarity between fuel for vehicles and water for soldiers. Everything else was no more than a joke to watch the community pick out certain parts of my introduction.

The problem with simulating guerrilla warfare in this game is the only thing soldiers need to live are guns and ammo. I'm sorry, but the operational range of a soldier is limited by primarily water. Most of the people here assume that you physically would take a drink out of your canteen, but I disagree. I think it should be a fuel bar for living vehicles.

Well OK I went back and read the first post, and the essence of it seems to be:

I think they at the very least need to add water. You cant run across the map in two hours without needing some kind of water to keep going in combat. The option to carry a canteen for long battles would be a great addition.

So, pragmatically, you'd want a canteen of water for the player to use once a certain resource bar reaches a low enough state? It seems a little unnecessary to add in such an arbitrary need, but I guess a swig action might be introduced to go along with the salute & sit down actions. I'm still not convinced it would add to the game, but as an action I can either use or not use I'm not against it.

[Pulverizer 1]

I think it would be a relatively simple matter to make a canteen "weapon" and a dehydration script, but you should suggest this feature for ACE mod, not Arma.

[carlostex 38]

Humm i think Bohemia needs to concentrate on the problems Arma 2 has, which are still too important to fix. I won't even talk of the very basic physics in Arma 2 which will keep like that for sure, but the rendering side of the engine really needs attention. Too many problems with lods, textures popping, z-fighting, lightning, the list could continue. As soon as these problems are adressed this wonderful game will get a lot more attention. More sales too i guess. Every single people i know who bought the game cause they thought it is a great concept, were turned off by the graphical glitches. Maybe we could get a lot more performance if these problems were fixed.

[PuFu 4600]

I'm not suprised and surprised...

The problem with simulating guerrilla warfare in this game is the only thing soldiers need to live are guns and ammo. I'm sorry, but the operational range of a soldier is limited by primarily water. Most of the people here assume that you physically would take a drink out of your canteen, but I disagree. I think it should be a fuel bar for living vehicles.

What i am actually surprised of myself is the fact that you keep on pushing on this matter, like it is the most important thing missing from A2.

A2 is a simulation Game, and no matter what you'll be saying the best simulation is RL. Most of the players here don't want to have this option embedded in the core game, and the reasons seemed to be pretty self-sustaining.

But tell you what: you can script the need of water mission side. Or create an addon for it. No one is stopping you, and it is more than possible to do it using the existing sdk platform

[metalcraze 290]

I'm sorry, but the operational range of a soldier is limited by primarily water. Most of the people here assume that you physically would take a drink out of your canteen, but I disagree. I think it should be a fuel bar for living vehicles.

OK you haven't had a drink for 3 hours - what will happen to your soldier?

Nothing.

And then mission ends.

The game already simulates nothing happening.

What I'm suprised about is most people here seem to lack the ability to see the similarity between fuel for vehicles and water for soldiers.

No people here are surprised that you see this "similarity" which has nothing to do with reality. Without fuel vehicle will stop and that's it. Without water human, and especially trained soldier, can survive for days.

Edited February 5, 2011 by metalcraze

[Mr. Charles 22]

This isn't Sims

[tacticalnuggets 24]

What i am actually surprised of myself is the fact that you keep on pushing on this matter, like it is the most important thing missing from A2.

A2 is a simulation Game, and no matter what you'll be saying the best simulation is RL. Most of the players here don't want to have this option embedded in the core game, and the reasons seemed to be pretty self-sustaining.

But tell you what: you can script the need of water mission side. Or create an addon for it. No one is stopping you, and it is more than possible to do it using the existing sdk platform

Lol, overreaction. I have scripted solutions to problems that are more complex than most people have to deal with in normal mission creation. People keep going around the fuel for vehicles metaphor. Its kind of funny. This is by far the least important thing I've ever put in the suggestions section, so there is no heartbreak involved if a bunch of elitists get all worked up about it on my thread. :bounce3:

---------- Post added at 04:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 AM ----------

OK you haven't had a drink for 3 hours - what will happen to your soldier?

Nothing.

And then mission ends.

The game already simulates nothing happening.

No people here are surprised that you see this "similarity" which has nothing to do with reality. Without fuel vehicle will stop and that's it. Without water human, and especially trained soldier, can survive for days.

LOL, how long have you been without water or food? A human can go without water for about 2 days (with high homeostatic maintenance) before he dies. Dehydration results in low blood volume, collapse, heat stroke, and basically everything that makes a human incapacitated.

My guess is that a soldier would probably become ineffective much sooner before dieing due to electrolytic depletion and the energy depletion associated with lack of glycogen stores (lack water retention).

Guys, the suggestion is to put a couple more percentage bars on a human soldier. It isn't earth shattering. Its just a harmless suggestion that would take the game in stimulative direction for long mission experiments.

[max power 21]

People don't go around the fuel for vehicles metaphor. You're saying that because soldiers need water, and because vehicles need fuel, these things are the same, and they are equally important, and the presence of one indicates the need for the other. It does not. Your idea is not well received, and not because everyone is an 'elitist' and fails to see the light at the end of your rather long logical tunnel. So a good 'lol' to you, sir. 'lol' all day long.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

People don't go around the fuel for vehicles metaphor. You're saying that because soldiers need water, and because vehicles need fuel, these things are the same, and they are equally important, and the presence of one indicates the need for the other. It does not. Your idea is not well received, and not because everyone is an 'elitist' and fails to see the light at the end of your rather long logical tunnel. So a good 'lol' to you, sir. 'lol' all day long.

Ok, hypothetical situation. Would you stop playing arma 2 if there was a water bar for soldiers in the editor?

[max power 21]

So you go from the first post where you want food, water, and waste and you're willing to settle for just water, to now possibly maybe having the option of being able to put it in missions sometimes. Looks like you're giving up ground.

I would never notice it because I never use the editor. If I was playing a mission where I needed to water my soldier I would be irritated by it.

edit: I don't see how making ArmA into a tamagotchi pets-at-war is really doing anything for it. I can sort of see water as a quest item for some specific purpose like crossing an uncrossable desert zone for some more story-based mission. This mechanic is sort of similar to prophylactic items that you find in other FPS's, like gas masks and hazmat suits. To put it in a sim only for the sake of simming dehydration with no point to it, you're defining a limitation that only adds work for the player with no payoff. Like the player selects 'take drink' every once in a while, say every ten minutes, or he dies a slow death? How about every 8 hours? How about every 2 hours? The amount of time you put on the intervals doesn't make it sound any less unfun. How long does it take a player to die from dehydration? Hours? Minutes? And how does he behave while he's dehydrated? Does he behave like he's wounded? How fun is it to play in ArmA with a soldier that is wounded for an extended period of time? About as fun as eating gravel? How much fun is it to fly, run, or drive all over hell's half acre looking for a way to make your soldier stop shaking like he has a palsy? Just seems like a make-work project for players who think the actual fighting in ArmA is too exciting. If anything, I think too much time is spent away from the fighting in ArmA, not the other way around.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Max Power

[metalcraze 290]

LOL, how long have you been without water or food? A human can go without water for about 2 days (with high homeostatic maintenance) before he dies. Dehydration results in low blood volume, collapse, heat stroke, and basically everything that makes a human incapacitated.

Yes. Show me a mission in this game where your soldier runs around for 2 days real time.

My guess is that a soldier would probably become ineffective much sooner before dieing due to electrolytic depletion and the energy depletion associated with lack of glycogen stores (lack water retention).

And let me guess - that will totally happen after just 2-3 hours!

Guys, the suggestion is to put a couple more percentage bars on a human soldier. It isn't earth shattering. Its just a harmless suggestion that would take the game in stimulative direction for long mission experiments.

Then do a mod. Although I doubt you will be able to test it because nobody will play the same mission with the same soldier for 12 hours

Because otherwise nobody will even notice they really need water.

Edited February 5, 2011 by metalcraze

[mcarma 19]

I think 'stamina' would be a nice feature.

[max power 21]

It has it already.

[Pulverizer 1]

Yes. Show me a mission in this game where your soldier runs around for 2 days real time.

A single player mission could last two days real time, because you can save and continue where you left off. Abandoned Armies for OFP could take as long as 24 hours to complete for example.

Not to mention campaigns where you carry equipment from one mission to the next. Those would last long enough for the lack food and water to have an effect on soldiers if they were implemented.

Dehydration wouldn't do anything interesting for gameplay though. Scavenging for better weapons would be much more rewarding way to drive the action, than looking for food or malaria medicine to simply keep your guy from dying.

[metalcraze 290]

So basically dehydration simulation could be implemented in 0.0001% of cases to have any effect.

[NeMeSiS 11]

A single player mission could last two days real time, because you can save and continue where you left off. Abandoned Armies for OFP could take as long as 24 hours to complete for example.

Not to mention campaigns where you carry equipment from one mission to the next. Those would last long enough for the lack food and water to have an effect on soldiers if they were implemented.

Which is all quite mission specific, and easily scriptable. (Like i said some pages ago, i was already able to do it when the mission asked for it, so it cant be that hard, balancing it for gameplay purposes is much harder to get right)

[Pulverizer 1]

So basically dehydration simulation could be implemented in 0.0001% of cases to have any effect.

Well, naturally there aren't many missions that make interesting use of farting simulation either, because the game does not have farting simulation. It's a chicken and egg thing.

[Daniel 0]

It's more of a "this isn't necessary in the core game and should be scripted when needed" thing.

For an Abandoned Armies style game, yeah. Hunting for clean water and rations would add a lot to the adventure. But for the every day 1-3 hour combat mission, no thanks. Got enough to worry about dodging incoming fire and oncoming trees. :p

Edited February 5, 2011 by Daniel

[froggyluv 2136]

LOL, how long have you been without water or food? A human can go without water for about 2 days (with high homeostatic maintenance) before he dies. Dehydration results in low blood volume, collapse, heat stroke, and basically everything that makes a human incapacitated.

.

Hmmm... I think humans can survive longer than that.

http://www.survivaltopics.com/survival/how-long-can-you-survive-without-water/

...seems to depend largely on temps as well as humans bodyweight (small aka children dehydrate faster) and availability of shade.

[Macadam Cow 1]

I really hope neither BIS nor the ACE team will integrate such a feature.

I remember when Rockstar added a similar feature to GTA SA, damn it was annoying !

I know GTA is not a simulation, but the word simulation doesn't stand for every little annoying thing you have to do in real life.

I'm sure if BIS added such a thing it wouldn't take more than a few days before someone would create an addon to remove it, and it would probably be nominated as "best addon of the year"...