Do I still drop my equipment into the water?

[[frl]myke 14]

swim with your pack on you and then take it off and use it as a flotation aid

That's what i mean when i point to scripted solution. It surely is possible to catch the actual equipment, pack it into a virtual pack (not really visible, just saved to a variable) and unpack it once you get out of water. So you can swim for hours if you like and you get your gear once you're back on land.

However, i guess the simulation is laid out for non-USMC soldiers and i know in the swiss army there isn't something like your "standard 40-pound pack".

Do you know anything about similar trainings in the US Army or other non-sea-related branches?

[HyperU2 11]

I don't know about other services. As a Marine I never cared. :)

[Beagle 684]

I don't know about other services. As a Marine I never cared. :)

As you may have noticed. ArmA II OA is not a Marine simulation and not all Armed Forces are equiped in a lightweight fashion.

back in the 90's the german Army had very heavy gear, heavy moleskin canvas uniforms, Rucksacks from the same fabric with leather as reinforcment, heavy high Lether Boots, aluminum Bottles and steeblade shovels, heavy but weak balistic vest with Nylon inserts, Steel helmet and a 5kg G3-rifle or a 12 kg MG-3 both using 7.62x51 Ammo...a nearly 2,5 kg heavy duty nylon sleeping bag for cold climate only and no floating bedroll, just a thin folding matress.

You dotn need to have much Fantasy why nobody even tried to teach us swimmign with gear...we were told to get rif of it in case we fell into water deeper as 1,50m.

Just a example that swimming wotn work for all of us.

Well o.k. I would try swimming with the new gear indruduced in the late 90's,. but not with a 18kg "ST" vest with ballistic plates.

The russian stuff in ArmA II reminds me very well of the stuff I had too carry around till 1994.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Beagle

[HyperU2 11]

ARMA2 seemed like quite a Marine sim to me.

[maddogx 13]

So it would seem that some units (e.g. marines) should have the ability to retain their gear while others shouldn't. That would at least be a quick short term solution.

[Beagle 684]

ARMA2 seemed like quite a Marine sim to me.

It seems like a "Ivan" and "Ali" sim to me, that are the sides I play most of the time ;)

[HyperU2 11]

It seems like a "Ivan" and "Ali" sim to me, that are the sides I play most of the time ;)

Well aren't you just the badass on a computer?

[maddogx 13]

Well aren't you just the badass on a computer?

Beagle, I'm afraid your cover is blown.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Guess BIS would need to make proper working floatable gear/backpacks, packing/unpacking+swimming animations and AI which can handle these things too.

But seriously which Marine would like to swim from Utes to Chernarus (and/or back) if he could use aircraft/ship or even these Amtracs? :p

All units who swim in those little ponds are either AI's who don't know how to improvise, adopt and overcome a situation or just some players having fun.

Imho it would be good if the player will simply drop all heavier equipment eg launchers, machineguns etc much faster than a rifle or a pistol. Perhaps make it happen that after a certain time of swimming around he slowdown and will be forced to choose other stuff to drop. So its more up to the player how far and fast he swims...

[Beagle 684]

Well aren't you just the badass on a computer?

Well sorry I can't answer that, google doens't give me a translation for this phrase that makes any sense to me :p

[HyperU2 11]

Guess BIS would need to make proper working floatable gear/backpacks, packing/unpacking+swimming animations and AI which can handle these things too.

But seriously which Marine would like to swim from Utes to Chernarus (and/or back) if he could use aircraft/ship or even these Amtracs? :p

All units who swim in those little ponds are either AI's who don't know how to improvise, adopt and overcome a situation or just some players having fun.

Imho it would be good if the player will simply drop all heavier equipment eg launchers, machineguns etc much faster than a rifle or a pistol. Perhaps make it happen that after a certain time of swimming around he slowdown and will be forced to choose other stuff to drop. So its more up to the player how far and fast he swims...

Well it's not just the stock maps, it should be fine to make it across a river on Duala.

[dmarkwick 261]

I guess that, training and qualification aside, there would have to be an excellent reason to swim with combat gear. There ought to be a good reason to dissuade units from simply yomping in a straight line to their destination, I should say that a soldier would do almost anything rather than swim, and this should be reflected in the game. What say a 30-second grace period followed by a randomised chance of losing equipment? Enough of a concern to stop most players making unreal attempts at fording rivers simply out of convenience :)

[HyperU2 11]

I'd just prefer to drown than lose equipment.

[M0ldyM!LK 0]

Wet weather bags turn into nice floaty things if they're tied off in your ruck correctly...

[[frl]myke 14]

I'd just prefer to drown than lose equipment.

Well, a soldier without gear can take a new weapon somewhere and is therefor of more value than a dead soldier which has to be extracted.

So IMHO it's smarter to lose some gear than just drown.

Or the other way around, what costs more:

- a full set of equipment or

- complete soldier training including full set of equipment?

[HyperU2 11]

Speaking strictly for the game I don't care about the cost or replacing me. Most of my unscheduled ARMA swimming comes from an ejection, once I'm ashore and unarmed I'm generally dead anyway.

[pooroldspike 128]

I've gone swimming for fun in AA2, and every time my man has lost his rifle after a while, usually around 3 minutes

[HyperU2 11]

A rifle and one magazine at the least isn't going to drown you. That much should be acceptable to keep.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

I can't do that.

"Can't" Or "Don't know how"?

[Beagle 684]

"Can't" Or "Don't know how"?

No I can't, im really having trouble with gear and falling into water. This happens to me with full trekking gear in a boat trip and i could not stay above surface with all that stuff on me. Im not the best swimmer even if naked. Water is not my element and anything deeper as 40 cm is a natural barrier for me thats make me inflate my one man-boat i carry for this purposes in my backpack on tour.

Keep in mind...a wet soldier has a extremely decreased combat efficiency. especially in conditions below 20°C and it takes hours to all your stuff dry again.

and guess what my job is to construct this kind of bridges and pontons to get people over waters, so I cant understand why someone wants to jump into a pond.

So instead of swimming with gear I rather want mobile bridge systems in ArmA or a inflatable boat out of the backpack ;)

Edited January 21, 2011 by Beagle

[Sintacks 10]

I've gone swimming for fun in AA2, and every time my man has lost his rifle after a while, usually around 3 minutes

Ok. Are you using any mods?

[sparks50 0]

Im all for a limit that stops people from going on ridiculously long swims which I very often do when playing BF2.

but it really sucks to be surprised by this limit, begging for the gear to still be there when you reach the shore. Thats not fun.

It would have been nice to get an indication on how long you can keep swimming before you loose your gear.

Edited January 21, 2011 by sparks50

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

No I can't, im really having trouble with gear and falling into water. This happens to me with full trekking gear in a boat trip and i could not stay above surface with all that stuff on me. Im not the best swimmer even if naked. Water is not my element and anything deeper as 40 cm is a natural barrier for me thats make me inflate my one man-boat i carry for this purposes in my backpack on tour.

Keep in mind...a wet soldier has a extremely decreased combat efficiency. especially in conditions below 20°C and it takes hours to all your stuff dry again.

and guess what my job is to construct this kind of bridges and pontons to get people over waters, so I cant understand why someone wants to jump into a pond.

So instead of swimming with gear I rather want mobile bridge systems in ArmA or a inflatable boat out of the backpack ;)

I'm not sure what your deal is, exactly, but I never had any issue with river and aquatic training or operations when I was in the Army. A soldier should be able to cross a river without dropping his crap.

It would have been nice to get an indication on how long you can keep swimming before you loose your gear.

I agree.

[Sintacks 10]

I remember a clip from Saving Private Ryan where Edward Burns jumps into the water when the boat reaches a point where they gotta bail out. He jumps overboard and struggles to remove his BAR. Once removed, he swims to shore and was asked where his BAR was. He said ".... the bitch tried to drown me". I don't think it's a good move to hang onto a heavy MG in water. Good luck trying to stay afloat with the gun and all the ammo on ya.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Sintacks

[Devil Dogs SF 13]

Well of course a Machinegunner couldn't hold onto his weapon easily in water, but there is no excuse for why an uninjured infantryman (Especially Special Forces) cant hold onto just an M16 or similar service rifle in water, especially when they go through training created for swimming in their gear.