Sakura_Chan's WIP thread

[mondkalb 1087]

I have been using the Command Menu since OFP, so I know all commands by hard and don't really think about what to do, I just do it. Reflex-like.

But that is probably due to 10 years of daily routine.

So my vote is: Ney instead of yay.

[abs 2]

Can you give a brief outline of how you would group the commands?

Abs

[sakura_chan 9]

circular layout, engagement commands on the left, behavior commands on the right.

formations (each formation graphically represented and click-able) at the bottom with the stance commands. New medical functions and scripted static weapon deployment commands running across the top. Directly below that, a "fire" command button as well as a target button that replaces the 2-> target list screen with an augmented reality click-able overlay. Directly in the middle is a large return to formation button and a halt button. to either side is vehicle embark/disembark commands as well as a new squad management window button. Last but not least is a button that moves your soldiers in to customizable close formal grid formations, useful for organization as well as setting up quick egress into choppers. Completely non-lingual and monochrome.

[.kju 3245]

A simple visual mock up would help people to get the idea i believe. :)

[Shadow NX 1]

So basicly a enhanced Commo Rose?

http://images.bf-games.net/news/2009/09/9207_1.jpg

I would very welcome that.

[kremator 1065]

Circular layout gets my vote as long as you can get commands out as fast or faster than we have currently. The other thing is to be able to increase functionality within the new system.

I vote YES.

[dmarkwick 261]

circular layout, engagement commands on the left, behavior commands on the right.

formations (each formation graphically represented and click-able) at the bottom with the stance commands. New medical functions and scripted static weapon deployment commands running across the top. Directly below that, a "fire" command button as well as a target button that replaces the 2-> target list screen with an augmented reality click-able overlay. Directly in the middle is a large return to formation button and a halt button. to either side is vehicle embark/disembark commands as well as a new squad management window button. Last but not least is a button that moves your soldiers in to customizable close formal grid formations, useful for organization as well as setting up quick egress into choppers. Completely non-lingual and monochrome.

Hell YES :)

I've long campaigned for this to be native, and I've seen some good 3rd party designs (such as the one linked above) but a specific, single-purpose only addon would be great :)

*edit*

I made a couple of low-artistic-merit mockups of a radial, the idea being more important than the design ;) :D

Link 1

Link 2

In them you can see an extra button, the unit button. I think the GUI could benefit from a visual way of selecting units that doesn't rely on scrolling with F11 & F12.

Edited August 30, 2011 by DMarkwick

[sakura_chan 9]

A simple visual mock up would help people to get the idea i believe. :)

This mod is actually just about finished, I've been working on it for more than a year (casually). Before I post anything solid about it I would like some freeform ideas that aren't based on my own (if that makes sense) so I could get some fresh ideas.

A few I have working:

Choppers turn towards a target when you tell them to target something (yeah, they couldn't do this before for some insane reason)

A built in GUI for controlling helicopters: set waypoints, altitude, LZs, bases and you also have the ability to tell them to RTB or move to a service point. You can even tell them to start the engines and idle on deck. Having AI wingmen is now a combat multiplier. Your flight moves out without drama (you can even set the delay between individual takeoffs) . You engage the enemy at 1-2 km. You can kill stuff until you AND your wingman run out of ammo. You head back to base, rearm and do it all again, without any scripting. There is no way an apache should fall at the hands of a uaz mounted machine gun.

Ability to hide units ei. temporarily remove them from your squad and recall them later. Also includes the ability to hide crew members who don't actually receive commands. For example, you don't send individual commands to a tank driver or gunner, they all go to the commander. This means that the whole tank would show up as one unit in the command bar. Completely your choice who to hide and when, nothing automatic

Scripted targeting: Checks to see if the unit can actually engage the target. No more rifle vs tank crap. Not working yet, but I am working on a squad-wide target solution, to make sure that units don't shoot the same target and ignore the other. This happens alot in my experience, especially with tanks.

Complete removal of the "engage" command. If your squadies stick with you and just engage targets from your position while taking cover appropriately, their combat effectiveness and survival rates increase by some bullshit percentage - 215% maybe? It is so much fun having your AI buddies actually play with you instead of just running ahead and dieing.

Addition of the "careless" behaviour setting. You wouldn't believe how useful this is for AI drivers. Choppers don't fly away when they see enemies, so as a gunner you can engage targets at a safe distance without the AI trying to do strafing runs. Vehicle drivers DO NOT STOP when ambushed or shot at. They keep driving! Away from danger! Like they want to survive!

Engagement is represented by 3 buttons:

1. Do not target, do not fire

2. Select a target, do not fire

3. Select a target, weapons free

It doesn't matter what mode you are in, you can click on an enemy unit and your squadies will target him. If they are in hold fire mode, clicking the fire button will make them fire. Works perfectly for engaging tanks at range when you want the AI to engage at just the right time. Another example is to have multiple units hit multiple targets simultaneously in a stealth/sniper scenario. And yes, they actually hold fire! Like they were soldiers following orders or something

when using stealth behavior, the player can use the stealth hushed voice as well (you couldn't before)

thats about 25% of the stuff I've got working. Thoughts?

edit btw when I said circular, I meant full screen circular, not really radial. Its not totally round, it flattens out at the bottom where it meets the command bar (which I also cleaned up a little).big buttons that are easy to see and navigate to. In a hairy situation a small quarter screen sized radial might be too delicate.

pps. One thing I've found from using this daily for a while: It is so much easier to use AI. Not just "oh I can issue commands faster" but it actually made more complex combat possible. Working with a basic four man squad in open terrain is, for lack of a better term, beautiful. I've played missions designed for small high command operations using only a basic squad. You're moving, changing your squad's stance, lining up shots, moving your AT soldier into that perfect spot and then drawing fire. You don't have to fiddle with the dang scroll wheel. The AI behave. They don't die from secret hidden enemies (actually standing in plain sight) because they marched off on their own. I found myself using tactics and commands that I never would before, simply because it was so simple to do so. I've been playing the ofp\arma series for a long time, and lots of my most memorable combat moments have come from using this mod.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Sakura_Chan

[abs 2]

I personally think it's a great idea. The first time I saw a radial command method was in Close Combat: First to Fight. Everything you've decribed sounds fantastic, and while I have no new freeform ideas to contribute right now, if anything pops into my mind, I'll let you know. :)

Abs

[dmarkwick 261]

Thoughts?

Release.

*edit*

A fire mode that I've most often thought would be a great addition, is: fire on my mark (or something...) meaning, that the units in your group will select targets, but hold fire, until you open fire. Then they all engage freely.

*edit 2*

Sakura, I wonder if you could incorporate either this actual solution, or your own version of it (to be honest, the original works just great), it's the All Round Defence formation script.

Edited August 30, 2011 by DMarkwick

[PuFu 4600]

I for one am looking forward to all of the features described

[sakura_chan 9]

All Round Defence formation script

haha that links to a random zombie mission thread - that made me laugh.

I remember reading about that on armaholic, I understand that it is primarily a UK tactic? One thing I wanted to do is add some custom macro buttons that you could program to do stuff like this, but I don't see how it could be regulated. In the current form it would be nothing but a magic run whatever script you want button. The current version uses US weapons in some of the graphics, but it would be easy to customize it per side. maybe give each side a special function and use appropriate guns in the icons? BAF gets all round defence, US gets some kind of ammo check and heal break, OPFOR has a search bodies for guns function? I have an annoying empty space below the formations for an unknown task

[dmarkwick 261]

haha that links to a random zombie mission thread - that made me laugh.

I remember reading about that on armaholic, I understand that it is primarily a UK tactic? One thing I wanted to do is add some custom macro buttons that you could program to do stuff like this, but I don't see how it could be regulated. In the current form it would be nothing but a magic run whatever script you want button. The current version uses US weapons in some of the graphics, but it would be easy to customize it per side. maybe give each side a special function and use appropriate guns in the icons? BAF gets all round defence, US gets some kind of ammo check and heal break, OPFOR has a search bodies for guns function? I have an annoying empty space below the formations for an unknown task

Hah :D OK I fixed the link :D

I don't know if it's a specific UK tactic, ARD seems to me to be a no-brainer formation. Very useful, it sets a circular formation using however many units you have, with you and the medic in the center. Presets for 10, 20, 30m radius etc. But anyway, check it out. I had to disable the "1" hotkey and config it to work off another key, but part of a radial would be best, free up the keys. As you say, maybe have that spare slot you have customisable by the player? It's certainly what I would use it for.

BTW, is it possible to affect the inter-unit spacings on formations? That's one area where this would really be incredibly useful if it could be done. Tighter, or looser, formations is desperately needed. Say each increment is 5m, or just have a few presets.

[kremator 1065]

I use ARD all the time :)

I agree about changing formation spacings but isnt this hard coded in the engine ?

[HR4 Elite 10]

I apologies in advance ‘Sakura_Chan’ as I am no computer wiz in-fact the complete opposite. The ideas you have are great, question is why are you not working for BIS, some of these ideas would be great for Arma3. The AI to keep driving after being shot at is a must, some of the AI seem to enjoy dying. Still looking forward to all your ideas, just wish I had some of my own:j:,

Would they all be available as mods to download from Six Updater ?

DMarkwick.. I like the radial idea, if used with Arma2 or 3 would help simplify the order structure..

All have great ideas, do we really need Arma3....

[bars91 956]

thats about 25% of the stuff I've got working. Thoughts?

25% O___o I can't even imagine what those 75% consist of :) A must have addons - all of 'em )))

[froggyluv 2136]

The fact that we'd get better AI response and reaction sounds amazing and boggling -why?

Sounds promising though hard to give suggestions short of a try out (not hinting or anything). :)

[hellfire257 3]

There is nothing to be said except:

Awesome!

[Angus S 10]

This sounds great, I hope you are still working on it

[sakura_chan 9]

I am. I'm hoping to release a community beta sometime next month. I've been trying to stop the AI from being locked in "Danger" mode after being fired upon, but no luck yet. However, most of the fundamentals are there. I just have to program the augmented targeting system. Since my last post I also made a VBS2 style vehicle control interface, except mine is handled in the first person, not an overhead camera. I'm still working out the kinks of using it once you are inside the vehicle though. There will definitely be some inactive buttons in it, such as the medical buttons and (probably) the "deploy mounted weapon" buttons. I also plan on implementing an engineer class repair control, similar to the vehicle control screen, that lets you repair specific parts of a vehicle or simply assess the vehicle's condition. It probably won't be in the beta though. Due to the semi-finished state of it as well as a few missing controls, it will currently be confined to a placeable module rather than an integrated eventhandler based addon (I think). It is fairly unobtrusive, as it doesn't require any changes to the mission to function. The only exception is that you need to add a public variable to units that you would like to "recruit". Not really necessary, but it prevents people from breaking existing missions.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Sakura_Chan

[Angus S 10]

Great! Really looking forward to it

[froggyluv 2136]

Hear hear! I've been really wondering about this one :)

[sakura_chan 9]

well here is the basic layout of the command interface with the controls labeled. Some stuff is missing and the get in command button doesn't work, but the basics are there. This is just the main menu, there are submenus and whatnot but they will be revealed later.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w312/lethalSakura/sakuteam.jpg

image is over 100kb, don't know if the forum's annoying thumbnail system is

handling it or not. I tried posting it split into 4 parts but the thumbnail system

breaks it.

As you can see there is plenty of room for new commands.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Sakura_Chan

[Baraka 10]

Looking great! Some fresh wind in the old Armaverse is always great. Waiting for this

[dmarkwick 261]

Hmmm yes this is the thing I've been waiting for a long time ;) does this news represent a "soon to be released" teaser? :)