So Some guy in My town got arrested

[vilas 477]

guns and freedom topic, so what is freedom ?

america is freedom ? if man cannot raise pole with flag , if man cannot paint door the way he want but get arrested cause "home owners association decided that in this town doors will be painted brown and guy painted his doors green"

what is freedom ? ownership of gun or having painted doors the way you want ?

but when it comes to guns - there should be some-kind of equilibrium, cause at the moment i see 2 polar opposite things :

- american freaks want to have full auto rifles (who need for home self defence AK, RPK, RPD, Mauser 98 , M60 ???)

- european banning

i think for self-defense pistol with low capacity magazine is that equilibrium

in my country there is almost total ban and americans say right that gun gives possibility to defense against bandit and wrong government , it is right, cause when citizens are helpless than state can be corrupted and police can not answer phone cause they are drinking while someone calls for help (we had in past such things) or judge for bribe left killer/rapist free (in my country getting a gun is almost impossible for usual citizen, not even for crime victim, only police, lawyers, army personal and very rich people have license)

but getting into exaggeration that Barret sniper rifle and M60 machinegun is self defense is sick too and can only make Columbine more often ,

gun to all people is also sick, cause without some basic psychiatric test it can lead to Columbine,

guns should be allowed more than in some of european countries after psychological test ,

but freaks with mental illness should not get touch to gun , total freedom is equal that mentally ill person will get it too

Edited December 23, 2010 by vilas

[TFatseas 0]

Why do Europeans want to comment on American culture?

You stick to what works for you guys and we'll stick to what works for us, geez...

[zigzag 0]

Why do Europeans want to comment on American culture?

You stick to what works for you guys and we'll stick to what works for us, geez...

Maybe because you are trying to spread your american culture to other places?

I dont really care how you live your lives, but does it really work for you?, no one here in sweden lives in fear like I hear you are doing.

@zachanscom. It was an american here that first said US was a police stat.

[Dosenmais 10]

- american freaks want to have full auto rifles

Why are you calling these People "Freaks"?

Do you know what the secound amendment with A well regulatet militia means?

i think for self-defense pistol with low capacity magazine is that equilibrium

So and know you make the standarts what is necessary and what is not?

and can only make Columbine more often ,

What do you know about Columbine, excepting what you hear from Micheal Moore?

The big scandal isn't that these young Man Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold used firearms, the big scandal is that they were total filled up with prozac when they did these.

And the students also where unarmed.

Why do Europeans want to comment on American culture?

Because most Europeans are a bunch of dumbing down, big gouvernment loving cowards. Most time when they hear something about guns, they mean if some people owning guns, that hurts there right on integrity. Total mindf***. And big gouvernment sould handle all these "freaks" and Gun-Nuts.

Man, i hate these nanny people so much.

Maybe because you are trying to spread your american culture to other places?

If this would be realy the american culture with "dont tread on me" and real liberty, i would be happy.

But it isnt. It is some kind of new-world-order patchwork pseudo-culture with McDonalds, mindless pop music and this other crap, that sould america out.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Dosenmais

[TFatseas 0]

I dont really care how you live your lives, but does it really work for you?, no one here in sweden lives in fear like I hear you are doing.

My point exactly.

[max power 21]

Do you know what the secound amendment with A well regulatet militia means?

Sounds like the National Guard.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Max Power

[TFatseas 0]

Ok, then why do State Guards and civil militias exist?

Edited December 23, 2010 by TFatseas

[mosh 0]

america is freedom ? if man cannot raise pole with flag , if man cannot paint door the way he want but get arrested cause "home owners association decided that in this town doors will be painted brown and guy painted his doors green"

what is freedom ? ownership of gun or having painted doors the way you want ?

I can paint my door and own a gun. I usually have my flag raised, unless it needs to be lowered for certain occasions. ;)

Stories like that only represent a very, very small portion of the country... and as long as you decide to move there you decide to abide by those laws. Certain laws vary so much state to state, city to city, town to town, and so on. I would find it hard to generalize an entire population by laws and actions, such as the stuff you mentioned, that only affect a tiny percentage.

american freaks want to have full auto rifles (who need for home self defence AK, RPK, RPD, Mauser 98 , M60 ???)

I would also be a freak who would love a fully automatic rifle. An M60 would be sweet. But as many rounds as I go through with my semi-auto AK-47 and my 30 round clips (100 round drums are pretty cheap but I don't have any yet), I could only imagine the rounds I would go through with an M60. It would be fun though. I like guns and I'm glad I can own them. If that makes me a crazy American then so be it.

The home defense debate... I love it... If someone breaks in I'm not going to go nuts and spray up my place with bullets. Most likely they would just get maced (pepper spray) and beat with a tire iron. I doubt I'll ever need to pull out the big guns at home. Now in my car you never know. I feel safer having a loaded pistol next to me (legally of course), next to the mace... I travel safe and stay away from dangerous places... but you never know.

But anyways, I like it over here. I plan on staying.

[Dosenmais 10]

Sounds like the National Guard.

Totaly wrong.

The National Guard was the result of the Militia Act of 1903. This was just a step more for total controll.

"well regulatet" does not mean "regulatet by the gouvernment", it means regular armed, regular trained. Like regular troops.

But the National Guard is controlled by the State Gouvernment and the Governor.

And what was the result? The National Guard shoot students turing the Vietnam War protests.

Who controlls the Milita? The Militia controlls the Militia. If you are a citizen of the USA, you are automaticly being a Member of the Militia.

[max power 21]

Ok, then why do State Guards and civil militias exist?

State guards exist to assist in local emergencies. Civil militias are not, by the definition of your constitution, organized militias.

In 'The Federalist', written in 1788, Thomas Hamilton wrote:

"If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security."

He goes on to say that if the army becomes a threat, the militia should help out the government... meaning in the event of a military coupe d'etat, the militia, organized and trained by the civilian government, should defend the status quo.

edit: Oh! As recently as in 2008, there was a ruling stating that militias can be kooks running around in the woods, too! I stand corrected.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Max Power

[sputnik monroe 102]

but getting into exaggeration that Barret sniper rifle and M60 machinegun is self defense is sick too and can only make Columbine more often

No one has ever been murdered by a .50 cal sniper rifle. It's too expensive and the ammo is over a $1 a round. Any one who has one is an enthusiast or hobbyist. To my knowledge no one has ever been murdered with an M60 either.

I get the feeling that if some one is willing to spend several thousand dollars in order to kill some one than it obviously was a crime of passion and the other person probably had it coming. :-P

gun to all people is also sick, cause without some basic psychiatric test it can lead to Columbine,

They were tested and were on prozac or some other mind fuck drug. They had the guns illegally anyway. They broke so many laws on their path to their final massacre that it begs the question, do you really think any more laws would have stopped them? There comes a point when no amount of laws are going to stop a psycho from committing their violent act.

Also back off on calling people freaks, especially people who have never hurt you or any one else for that matter. Your the delusional one with all the paranoia and phobias.

[echo1 0]

It seems to me that most gun crime involves hand guns anyway. I think gun laws should be more about making sure that only responsible people get their hands on them, rather than banning things that look like assault rifles.

Aren't there states that have bans against black guns?

And the students also where unarmed.

School children running around with guns? That's going to end well.

[Baff1 0]

Not all lobbyists are nuts, and not all nuts are lobbyists. I think sleeping with a loaded gun does count as nuts, though. If you are concerned about criminals crawling into bed with you and murdering you before you have a chance to awaken, I would suggest perhaps investing in a loud alarm system and keeping the weapon locked properly in a drawer next to you and sleeping with the key (if needs be).

I can't shoot anyone with a key. Do you think a villain who has broken into my bedroom will be willing to wait?

For a gun to be useful, it has to be ready for use. The longer it takes to aim and fire, the less useful it is.

The law in my country is such that if an intruder bursts into my room in the middle of the night and I wish to shoot him, if I take my key and unlock my gun from my legally required gun cabinet, and then shoot him. I have acted in a pre-meditated fashion. I will be charged with murder.

While if I just reach under my bed in fright, there is no pre-mediation; so in this scenario I can only be charged with manslaughter and not murder.

(Obviously in the unlikely event of this ever occouring, I would seek to get off on self defence grounds).

I will of course gladly get a loud alarm system if you are willing to pay for it. Unfortunately the police recently took their emergency one back. I have some loud alarms on some of my outbuildings.But loud alarms don't really stop anyone.

At first they learn how to get in without setting them off, and then if you upgrade and make it imposible to get in without setting it off, they come in daylight instead and use speed instead of stealth. Ram raid with their vehicles.

In the end, you can't protect yourself with absolute guarentee, but you can fool yourself that you are safe and sleep the better for it. A gun under the bed really helps for that.

---------- Post added at 01:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------

what is freedom ? ownership of gun or having painted doors the way you want ?

I'm allowed to own a gun, but painting of my doors is expressly forbidden and carries a £100,000 fine.

---------- Post added at 01:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 PM ----------

School children running around with guns? That's going to end well.

I was 14 when I got my lisence.

I had a gun at school. Many of us did.

Almost all of us were given guns once a week. (Except a few weedy types who weren't intrested).

School is an ideal enviroment to learn gun safety and shooting disciplines. Not every lesson you learn in school has to be an academic one.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Baff1

[mosh 0]

I can't shoot anyone with a key. Do you think a villain who has broken into my bedroom will be willing to wait?

For a gun to be useful, it has to be ready for use.

I won't be fumbling with a damn key neither if I need to protect myself. But I live by myself, if I had kids I would keep the clips and ammo out of their reach of course.

[Baff1 0]

Everyone I live with sleeps with a gun too.

I'm more worried about my cleaning lady!

Kids are defintely a concern. The sooner you get them a lisence of their own, the sooner they start getting paranoid about losing it. At least that's how it was for me.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Baff1

[KEVINMGXP 20]

I'm from belgium and i won't mind if the law would give us freedom to0 own a gun legaly.

in fact i would support it, now i'm a freak too

anyway: the discussion on the fact who can and who can't have a gun will always be something very tricky, when do you figure out that someone is sane enough or not sane enough, is that man or woman planning a crime or not.

for example:

my neighbour across the street looks like a sane person, i talked to him a couple of times he is nice he looks smart he might be a teacher what ever.

on the other hand he could be a serial killer!

the preacher on your local church looks like a sane person, he preaches and tries to predic beleaves towards the people that comes to listen to him.

on the other hand he could be a child molesting bastid whole the way!

dear people i can go on for a while on this matter! the point is you are all wrong about one thing, you can't define a certain culture to be the whole worlds problem.

you are born in afghanistan you can be a possible terrorist, not only america is thinking that way a lot of west/east european countries are thinking the same!

you live in a country that allows to have a gun, hmmm you must be insane! a lot of you are prejudiced towards others because they have a certain culture or beleave in a certain god or what ever.

i don't go to church, nor i do believe in a particular god, i walk my own way! but i do believe if we try to contribute our thoughts in a more decent way, then calling eatch other names we would have a more harmonious live all together.

but i think that i ask a little too much in general then :rolleyes:

btw: guns don't kill people!!! people are killed by the people that are using them. edit (excuse me miss use them i don't want to sound prejudiced :p )

but a lot of posters already proved what i stated above, very mature i would say :eek: never the less i wish everyone to think a bit trough before putting flames on each other.

regards.

Edited December 24, 2010 by KBourne
gramma

[mosh 0]

I'm from belgium and i won't mind if the law would give us freedom to own a gun legaly.

in fact i would support it, now i'm a freak to

I'm from the USA and I wouldn't mind if you owned guns either. :)

[Baff1 0]

The further you are away from me, the less I mind.

[KEVINMGXP 20]

I'm from the USA and I wouldn't mind if you owned guns either. :)

tbh, i just want to overthrow our government :p

[Baff1 0]

I'm hoping that if I ignore mine for long enough....they will just go away.

[Dosenmais 10]

The sooner you get them a lisence of their own, the sooner they start getting paranoid about losing it. At least that's how it was for me.

Not just they.

Many Veterans do not report their PTSD, because than they can't own guns anymore.

I think sleeping with a loaded gun does count as nuts, though

If the gun is locked and there is no bullet in the chamber, there is realy no harm. The chance that the door latch in you room unlock itself is even higher.

In other way, i know some people they keep a loaded gun always under the bed.

Don't be so scared.

I would suggest perhaps investing in a loud alarm system and keeping the weapon locked properly in a drawer next to you and sleeping with the key (if needs be).

I guess you have never something to do with home invading, right?

Yeah, if somebody comes into my bedroom i will please him to wait a secound that i can unlock my draw. By the way, i must turn the light on bevor. And than i'am dazzled and can't shoot.

[Maddmatt 1]

Yeah, if somebody comes into my bedroom i will please him to wait a secound that i can unlock my draw. By the way, i must turn the light on bevor. And than i'am dazzled and can't shoot.

If he gets into your room before you notice him, he'll have his gun pointed at you before you can grab yours, even if it's under your bed and loaded.

Hell, you'll probably still be asleep :p

[Baff1 0]

The security it offers you may be illusary, but the illusary security it offers you is very real.

[max power 21]

You guys are totally, completely nuts.

You think that someone will break into your house to steal something will sneak into your room to kill you at random? You think a killer will try to sneak into your house after an audible alarm goes of, signalling the police instantaneously? You think it's too difficult to unlock a trigger lock, but you're willing to have a deadly gun battle in the middle of the night? What ridiculousness.

I can see having a gun in a dangerous area as the last- the very last- resort of self defence. A gun is not a security measure, it is a measure of self defence. You should be avoiding a self defence scenario at all costs. Barred windows, a proper security system, dogs, etc. are all measures that avoid being put in the position of having to kill or be killed in the first place. This supposition that you are more secure because you have a loaded handgun under your pillow is perfect fantasy. If you think you will have to kill someone in the near future to avoid being murdered, you are insecure period.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Max Power

[MEVLUDIN 10]

In Europe people collect all weapons no weapon law If You Have Money Be A Tank Simple :)