newby question re AI

[mark turner 10]

Hi Guys, after trying Arma2 last year and not getting on with it, I have decided to persevere and really have a go with OA. Been mainly playing FPS but tactical servers, I dont like run and gun and thought this would be more challenging.

My first niggle or gripe relates to the AI, I have been playing the first few missions and been finding it really difficult to keep track of whats happening etc. You hear " 5 engage man 12 oclock" and by the time you figure out where that is and have managed to pick out the man, it's all over. Also my men dont seem to have any set plans, they run around, I cant figure what their plan is, where they are going and how they are trying to acheive their mission. I sthere a way to get a better tactical understanding of the missions and to control the men?

I realize that I probably need to spend at least the next 3 weeks reading threads , guides etc to figure it out, is there a list of the best recommended mods to install and some kind of ease yourself in gently way of learning ?

And I cant seem to hit anything I shoot at!!!! Whereas my men are dropping the enemy like flies!!

But, i do love the graphics and the feel of the game, so will be persevering.

Any pointers appreciated,

Cheers, Mark

[arthur666 10]

I would say, don't be afraid to turn on the visiaul aids that help you spot an enemy, esp. those assigned to you by your commander.

Yeah, the glowing red blobs and circles can lower the realism factor, but the way I see it, you're already viewing the world thru a little ol' 1650x1080 monitor, so a little visual assistance seems fair.

[TRexian 0]

Mark Turner?

Don't suppose you ever drifted in and out of an internet hole in the wall called Frugalsworld, did you? :D

Edit:

Oh, and on-topic, first get a feel for your own shooting. Try the armory and some simple missions to help you get a feel for fighting and finding cover. Then, add in AI subordinates. And actually, the first few missions of the campaign(s) help with this, too.

It is fairly realistic. So, just like you train to fight IRL, you kinda have to have that approach in A2/OA. :)

Edited November 19, 2010 by TRexian

[[asa]oden 0]

Try installing zeus AI mod - works a little better IMO.

In case you're actually a Frugalite (T-Rex reference) - welcome to ArmaVerse!

[nettrucker 142]

Hi and welcome to the forum

your post reminds me of my first tries with OFP.:) I couldn't hit shit, the first times I played . . . I got my butt regularly handed over. :D It takes some time to get used to the game. The armory is cool to get on top of things. There are still issues with the AI but BIS is working on it. AI in Arma is quite a complicated matter. Don't worry about commanding immediately that will come with time. There were some cool Youtube videos about AI commanding but I don't remember who made them or the relative thread here in the general section.

In any case . . . read here in the forums, especially the stickies. ShacTactical made a fantastic guide related to Armed Assault and ingame tactics which you should give a read, that will help you to find hopefully the right approach. The more you play the easier it gets to understand this truely amazing game.

kind regards

[Undeceived 392]

I watched these videos lately and they revealed new things to me, even playing the games since OFP! :D So they are really good, in-depth explained.

Here they are:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=12120 -> (check the link at bottom of page how to bypass mega video 72 min limit)

I watched them and practiced it simultaneously in my own editor.

Mark, yes, the armory and its little missions are a good start to get used to things.

[maturin 12]

If you are in command, generally speaking, your men will operate using the buddy system. One will run while the other watches.

And I cant seem to hit anything I shoot at!!!! Whereas my men are dropping the enemy like flies!!

You have to learn where your bullets are actually going, because your sights don't necessarily tell you the truth. Bullets follows arcs. If you are trying to shoot over the top of a wall right in front of your face, the barrel is below your sights.

If your sights are zeroed to 300m, that means that the bullet will be "lobbed" upwards above your sight-line, and will sink back down to cross that line 300m out. At a range less than 300m, you need to aim lower, because a perfectly-aimed headshot may go too high. Beyond that zeroed point, the bullet begins sinking rapidly and that headshot may hit the target's feet or fall short altogether.

With the new recoil system it requires very good mouse control to fire accurately while standing, so don't do it. Shoot single shots.

[Carl_D 10]

If your sights are zeroed to 300m, that means that the bullet will be "lobbed" upwards above your sight-line, and will sink back down to cross that line 300m out. At a range less than 300m, you need to aim lower, because a perfectly-aimed headshot may go too high. Beyond that zeroed point, the bullet begins sinking rapidly and that headshot may hit the target's feet or fall short altogether.

Correct ofc. Also muzzle velocity differences mean that for a traversing target the lead (offset) on the target may vary between weapons. I'm not sure if vanilla OA takes barrel length into account; A2 doesn't unless you use Fincuan's trio of addons.

Can't speak about OA but some of the zeroing is off in Arma2 (like the G36 IIRC).

@Mark: Practice is mandatory (just like real militaries).

Try the "Moveable Target Range" mission by Kronzky which covers many of the rifles and MGs in the game:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=81156

Download: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=6504

Depending on what/how you play (SP, Co-op, etc.) choose just a few weapons & see how well you can hit the target at different ranges. I suggest iron-sight such as M16 & AK47, reflex (CCO, AK107) scoped M16 ACOG & AK107 PSO, sniper DMR & Dragunov SVD, MG M240 or SAW, & RPK.

You can move to one side or other of the runway to aim at targets that are traaversing at angles other than 90 degrees, also moving the target away until it's in a hilly area then following, you can aim at targets that are above or below you to practice elevation correction.

Using any scope you need to know how to range with the reticule. There are several guides; one recent one is LaTrang & FelixLegion's "Sniper Operations Manual" which also includes an excellent discussion of the role & tactics of sniper:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=12346

I'll be posting a list of other useful guides, threads, etc., covering basic shooting & basic tactics sometime next week in the "NOOBIES..." thread.

Cheers

Carl

[andersson 285]

You hear " 5 engage man 12 oclock" and by the time you figure out where that is and have managed to pick out the man, it's all over.

You will get better at it, practise makes perfect. When I started playing the 1985 campaign in OFP I was thrilled when I managed to survive a mission and have 1-2 kills.

If you are used to other FPS's you have to rethink how to mentally play. You are not the main focal point anymore, you are just one guy. Instead of you shooting all enemies your goal should be to do your part.

That is;

1 - stay alive

2 - help your buddies by telling them about enemies

3 - pick your targets after the biggest threat to you/your group

This game is not about fragging, its about finnishing objectives. If you meet to much resistance its nothing wrong with a tactical retreat (or run away in panic), then make up a new plan how to finnish the mission. We are used from other games to just run in and shoot, we are used to be the hero. Forget that and think more like how you would do it in RL.

Good luck, its worth it and you will get better fast.

[victim913 10]

First, do not get any mods or addons. It will only confuse you. Especially AI mods. Do not get the Zues or anything else until you know how to play. Especially when playing multiplayer, if you get used to those AI mods then play a game that does not have it, you'll get lost. I couldn't figure out why my guys would have good weapons then walk up to a dead guy, breaking formation, ignoring your orders, then put down their awesome weapon and pick up a crappy gun. Or just walk over and set down their ammo for no reason.

BOOTCAMP, BOOTCAMP, BOOTCAMP, then Campaign, then single player missions. Do every bootcamp mission a few times if you have to. Also use bootcamp to set your controls. Set all the fine tuning. where you want your controls and how sensitive to set things. then go into the campaigns. They build up so you learn as you go. You start off as a nobody then you get more control of squads etc. Most of the individual missions require you to know something about the game already. You can't control a squad without knowing how to play.

The hard part is all the numbers for all the menus. You can still play by just selecting someone and pointing.

Read the stuff at the begining of the missions. It tells you what to do, how to do it, and who will help you. So when you hear "5, move 50 meters north" Then you know who 5 is. Click your map click on units and see who he is if you want. Also they always say "50 meters". It can be a mile away or a few feet away it's always 50 meters. In OA there is a clock at the bottom of the screen when someone says "enemy 11 oclock", then the clock appears and you can see where 11 oclock is. You would assume it is based on where you are facing but it isn't. Just look around. If you are playing the first arma2, then if they say enemy and you don't know where 11 oclcok is, click on the map and see where the enemy is there.

Seriously BOOTCAMP. do it again and again. When you start the campaign, you are told where to go and what to do. all you have to do is kill. And you have to find your own pace. If you play OA the first mission in the campaign would suck if you followed what your squad tells you. They stay away from the battle and move at a snail pace. But if you are new that will be ok. I would recomend playing the regular arma2 campaing then OA, cause OA campaign is more focused on new stuff. The original one focuses on learning the game.

But after BOOTCAMP, and maybe a little while into the campaign go into the editor. It is way better than the armory. put everything you want to use on the map and try them all out. The armory only lets you do one at a time. Then put OPFOR on the map and set up a waypoint or two and fight. Get usedd to the feel of it.

Don't worry about scripting or addons until you know what you are doing.

It will take alot of Patience. Drivng vehicles suck. aiming sucks, but you will get used to it.

Aiming is bad. i move my mouse a half inch one minute and I point a few feet away, a minute later i move the mouse a half inch and i end up poiting behind me. It never seems constant. Driving is bad too. There is a delay. It's like driving a car with no power steering. You turn using keys and a second or two later your vehicle turns. But by the time you start to turn you already have to turn the other way because you turn to far. i don't know why they can't fix that and make driving easy. I should be able to press a key and my vehicle turn at that exacxt moment. That way i could use the mouse to look. not steer.

[nkenny 1057]

Aiming is bad. i move my mouse a half inch one minute and I point a few feet away, a minute later i move the mouse a half inch and i end up poiting behind me. It never seems constant. Driving is bad too. There is a delay. It's like driving a car with no power steering. You turn using keys and a second or two later your vehicle turns. But by the time you start to turn you already have to turn the other way because you turn to far. i don't know why they can't fix that and make driving easy. I should be able to press a key and my vehicle turn at that exacxt moment. That way i could use the mouse to look. not steer.

Turn off Mouse Smoothing in the control panel.

-k

[mark turner 10]

Whooaaah !! I am amazed at the amount of good advice, I wil certainly read my way through the various linked guides etc.

Thanks a lot guys, reading between the lines, patience and practice are required.. much like in Falcon4, which, yes T-Rex I was and am still a keen flyer of and I remember you well from Frugals "back in the day". Nice to see you again!!

Thanks again, and expect to see more of me here no doubt!

One quick question, I have started the campaign, third mission at the airfield, I get briefed to go out in a convoy, but I just cant work out how to do this. There are some men downstairs, and some tanks and Humvees etc , but I dont seem able to get inside or caoomand any of the men. I gave up after half an hour, - what is the obvious thing I am missing here? I press the unit and command buttons, but dont get any relevant options up...

Cheers,Mark

[andersson 285]

A tip for learning basic team leader skills is bootcamp AND mission editor. Start up the editor, place a group and make you as team leader. then you can drop a few vehicles in there. Preview and just play around testing different stuff. Warning though, you can get stuck in the editor almost never to play any real missions. I been there since 2001 and cant get out....

[mark turner 10]

Can I also ask which patch version to use ? I installed the game and then patched using version 1.55.

Is that all I need to do, I see there are previous versions of the patch, but is the latest one cumulative, or do I need to use all the earlier ones, in order?

Also, I have Arma2, but not installed. Do I need it installed to use any of the Mods? ( I am looking at using the ACE mod as that seems ubiquitous ) There seem to be very many and pretty confusing as to how to use

Cheers, Mark

Edited November 20, 2010 by mark turner

[mrcash2009 0]

Warning though, you can get stuck in the editor almost never to play any real missions. I been there since 2001 and cant get out....

LOL ... cant agree more, once you pop, you cant stop. :)

Also, I have Arma2, but not installed. Do I need it installed to use any of the Mods? ( I am looking at using the ACE mod as that seems ubiquitous ) There seem to be very many and pretty confusing as to how to use

You will find limitations without having Arma2 installed with OA as "combined ops". Otherwise mods like ace and others you cant use as they all do require combined (both). Plus its near madness in the arma world to have OA running standalone and have arma2 sat in a box not installed with it :) Not including MP where many use Combined Ops.

I would say if you want to use and move into that area and not be limited, uninstall everything and back up saves etc.

** This is for boxed DVD/Sprocket install ... if steam = use steam to update **

Install arma2

Then install the arma2 1.08 patch

Install Arrowhead (into the same ARMA2 folder created previously so it becomes combined ops .. although it will prompt and should find the Arma2 folder)

Then run the 1.55 OA patch.

(I had to do a complete reinstall the other day due to some other issues and these steps worked fine).

After that you will have fully patched and running 1.55 combined ops, and then you can delve into mods and things.

For more info on mods and help with things like that this thread is gold dust:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=96591

After this you then need to check out the mods and addons complete section and search and check the threads for said mods and comment in those areas per mod with any issues and looking for info. Take it in steps though, Id say get used to the whole thing first before mods, then implement bit by bit and get used to things one at a time.

These tutorials may be helpful that cover all areas of control and AI:

http://www.armaholic.com/plug.php?e=faq&q=87

Edited November 20, 2010 by mrcash2009

[Carl_D 10]

Install arma2

Then install the arma2 1.08 patch

Install Arrowhead (into the same ARMA2 folder created previously so it becomes combined ops .. although it will prompt and should find the Arma2 folder)

Then run the 1.55 OA patch.

(I had to do a complete reinstall the other day due to some other issues and these steps worked fine).

After that you will have fully patched and running 1.55 combined ops, and then you can delve into mods and things.

Agree with your post 100%, except that Mark should be aware that some people have had major problems with both the A2 1.08 & the OA 1.55 patches. Not clear why & it might well be a rather low-frequency issue. Up to Mark whether he patches to 1.08/1.55 or plays safe & opts for the 1.07/1.54 patches (no idea how/if you can do that on Steam).

Cheers

Carl

[mrcash2009 0]

Dont make it more confusing!

:)

Well, yes but to advise patching lower than the current release to mis-match most people (MP wise and mod updates) isnt great practice I suppose.

I had issues ( I was one of them) but to patch right A2 over OA is wrong, so would need to reinstall from scratch, and in doing so will avoid any hickups, it did for me, I patched from 1.54 and 1.07 to 1.55 and had corruptions, and had to reinstalled from scratch ... so in the end it will work out anyway because he would have too regardless and those steps I posted are what I did.

Edited November 20, 2010 by mrcash2009

[maturin 12]

Mastering being a team leader takes a lot of practice and trial and error. I wouldn't be surprised if you learn that being a subordinate or lone wolf is much more fun and immersive.

You will pick up the shooting tricks quite fast, assuming you've played other FPS. It's two big steps up from Halo, but they're steps nonetheless.

You'll be good at the game once you learn how the AI work. To new players they can seem like a mixture of berzerkers and cunning omniscient assassins.

They can't see through bushes, buildings and trees. Just because you're getting shot at doesn't mean they see you or even have a decent estimate of your location. Those two facts are key to building confidence.

When they can't see you, they get sort of confused. Using tactics that would fool a human player will often catch them looking in the wrong direction, and they are much slower to correct their mistakes.

[TRexian 0]

Mark - wonderful to cross paths with you again! :) And that's great that you're still firing up F4! (I'm sure as hell not!) ;)

In terms of patching/version, I'd recommend the "Combined Ops" flavor of O2. I'm currently only patched to 1.54 (IIRC - it is a bit like keeping track of F4 back in the days of competing patches). CO is A2+OA. Also, the beta patches are usually worthwhile.

In terms of the gameplay, shoot me or DMarkwick (DM from FW) or [ASA]Oden (same nick at FW IIRC) a PM. Between us, we can probably hook you up with a mission or two that can get you familiarized. :) But really, if there is something that interests you, I'd almost saw just spend an hour or so with the editor and you'll be able to get it figured out and have some fun!

[ArmAriffic 10]

@victim913 you forgot to say boot camp :)

[mark turner 10]

Hi T-rex, I am just installing again, as per Mrcash2009 instructions, I have Arma2 installed and patched to 108. Have not yet re installed OA. Will this procedure ( as described by him above) give me combined Ops ? ( I should add I am using the DVD version of both games, not steam) I had a quick read of the sticky thread on using combined ops and it looked hideously complicated......

Cheers and thanks for the offers of help and advice, great community you guys have here!

Might well take you up on the offer T-Rex, I am sure like all these games, that multiplayer is the best way to get the most from the sim.

Thanks, Mark

[breeze 0]

I read that sniper rifle booklet that was posted by carl and I loved it that's frigging great I am looking for other guides that help me understand how to use each gun their ranges and well anything that teaches like that PDF that was really good.

[breeze 0]

Hey is there anyway of getting these videos anywhere else I am not putting up my credit card to get access to this site. I am trying to download these and forget it they are to big They get cut off by the web sites limitations.

[Carl_D 10]

Hey is there anyway of getting these videos anywhere else I am not putting up my credit card to get access to this site. I am trying to download these and forget it they are to big They get cut off by the web sites limitations.

If you mean those posted by Undeceived, read his post again. Or read the linked webpage again...

Ciao

Carl

[breeze 0]

Carl Where are the other tutorials besides the sniper where can we get other info like that on the guns their ranges and how to be more effective with them.