ARMA 2, version 1.08 - Patch Released.

[TemichSablin 10]

hehe sorry that was about 1.55 for OA :/

[Carl_D 10]

I think that the recoil from OA is the best addition.

Without the annoying camera shake it now feels very nice.

I haven't fired any of the rifles in the game, but I used to match shoot in the VIth form & at University (.22 match rifles locally, .303 Lee Enfields occasionally at Bisley) and I go skeet shooting every 2-3 months with a group of friends. I find the recoil rather unrealistic. Yes, any gun will kick up (and a rifle also to one side or other depending on the direction of rifling, but that's a relatively minor issue; at least on semi).

However, if you are holding the rifle correctly, especially if braced using the sling, your muscles resist the recoil and pull the rifle back somewhere near the original position in an essentially involuntary action.

In this update rifles kick up and stay there, which is unnatural and, to me, unrealistic. Also makes firing on semi much harder than I believe it should be. Haven't tried the M107 yet, can I expect it to end up vertical? :p

Cheers

Carl

[trooper117 10]

Absolutely.. in real life, if the correct position and hold is maintained and the firer is naturaly in line with the target, after recoil the weapon will more or less settle back onto the point of aim.. not so in this game unfortunately.

Yes, there is of course recoil, and they have tried to simulate that, but soldiers are taught to control that by using a stable fire position if possible to compensate for that factor... it's something I drum into my guys over and over again.

[Carl_D 10]

Hi, i don't have any disk check... i can play in SP & some mins in MP (before get kicked without any named reason) without need to have the game's DVD on the drive; i think that isn't neccessary to have the DVD on the drive from the previous patch... .

I think there's still some disk check code in there somewhere. Both in v1.07 and in v1.08, when attempting to load a mission I occasionally get an interruption back to the desktop - 'No disk in drive' etc. Happens even if I've been playing for some time, but never during a mission, only when I exit to load another.

It doesn't have to be the game disk so I just shove any data CD/DVD or a music CD in the drive and that's all that's needed - for me, anyway. Hope it works for you.

Carl

[Dwarden 1125]

Where is the new Vsync option?

it's only in ARMA 2: OA

[Vultar 0]

I haven't fired any of the rifles in the game, but I used to match shoot in the VIth form & at University (.22 match rifles locally, .303 Lee Enfields occasionally at Bisley) and I go skeet shooting every 2-3 months with a group of friends. I find the recoil rather unrealistic. Yes, any gun will kick up (and a rifle also to one side or other depending on the direction of rifling, but that's a relatively minor issue; at least on semi).

However, if you are holding the rifle correctly, especially if braced using the sling, your muscles resist the recoil and pull the rifle back somewhere near the original position in an essentially involuntary action.

In this update rifles kick up and stay there, which is unnatural and, to me, unrealistic. Also makes firing on semi much harder than I believe it should be. Haven't tried the M107 yet, can I expect it to end up vertical? :p

Cheers

Carl

Well, in real life you shoot a firearm. Ingame you press mouse button.

Tell me, what would happen, if you pressed the trigger, not controlling the recoil? The gun would jump up.

It's same in Arma2, you have to control it Yourself. The avatar you're playing won't control the gun for you, you have to use your mouse instead.

To me, it grants a feeling that you actually shoot you rifle, and not just press the mouse button.

Do not play the game at 25fps~. It's laggy and everything works slower.

Try maintaining more than 35-40. Everything is smoother and nicer to play.

Usually, the more frames, the better. All the way to 60, of course.

[Carl_D 10]

Absolutely.. in real life, if the correct position and hold is maintained and the firer is naturaly in line with the target, after recoil the weapon will more or less settle back onto the point of aim.. not so in this game unfortunately.

Yes, there is of course recoil, and they have tried to simulate that, but soldiers are taught to control that by using a stable fire position if possible to compensate for that factor... it's something I drum into my guys over and over again.

Aha, a real-life soldier! Greetings, Trooper117 :)

Just tried an M107 - absolutely awful. Shooting at a target ~1000 metres away & I could not see where/when the bullet hit unless I had knocked the target down. That makes adjusting aim terribly hit & miss (pun intended).

I really hope they will change this. If it's too complicated to animate the 'up-and almost-back' recoil to approximate the real recoil / human reaction, than the kick-up should at least be reduced to an appropriate level that leaves the rifle about where it would end up IRL even in the hands of an occasional, amateur shooter like me.

Ciao

Carl

[Vultar 0]

Yes, M107 is overdone. From what I know, counterrecoil systems in Barrett makes the recoil even lower than that of Remington700.

What makes it hard to shoot while standing is not the recoil, but its weight... about 13kg.

But well... I guess that nothing is perfect, especially BI Games :P

Who needs a perfect game, anyway?...

[Carl_D 10]

Well, in real life you shoot a firearm. Ingame you press mouse button.

Tell me, what would happen, if you pressed the trigger, not controlling the recoil? The gun would jump up.

It's same in Arma2, you have to control it Yourself. The avatar you're playing won't control the gun for you, you have to use your mouse instead.

To me, it grants a feeling that you actually shoot you rifle, and not just press the mouse button.

I never fire a gun unless I am braced, most especially if it is anything other than a single-shot or manual, bolt action rifle. No-one with even minimal experience fires a rifle without controlling the recoil, or those nearby would rapidly boot them off the range.

In real life I use my right hand to pull the gun tight against my shoulder & to squeeze the trigger. I use my left hand, left arm & rest of my body to hold the gun on target.

What you suggest requires pulling down with the mouse almost simultaneously with pressing the mouse button. Not only will the timing be difficult to master, especially as the situation varies, it requires a conscious effort. I think the suggestion is absurd.

The whole point of my post & trooper117's expert reply is that when properly braced, bringing the rifle back close to the target it is automatic. Sorry, but I can't imagine that you've ever fired a rifle IRL.

Cheers

Carl

PS: Heh, nothing is perfect but Arma2 is by far the best FPS game I've ever played. This (failed) attempt to simulate a real-life phenomenon looks like ruining the gameplay, so I'm likely to revert to 1.07 until its either corrected or removed. Is this in OA as well? I have the DVD on order; it's out-of-stock so I still have a few days left to cancel it.

I don't attempt to fire the M107 standing up, in an emergency I'll crouch. Even rifles like the DMR need prone position if you're firing at range & want a one-shot-kill unless you're either very, vry good or lucky :)

C

Edited November 13, 2010 by Carl_D

[Jack_Ryan_ 10]

20 years computer games have been dealing with glass.

Bang, tinkle, glass is gone.

Arma2 has advanced in some ways, but cant handle glass, amazing.

And boring, identical interiors in enterable buildings.

Get off your butts and hire some coders from Ubisoft.

[Vultar 0]

Carl, you're right. I've never shot a rifle, as it's not legal in my country and I am still not adult. However, shooting a gun gives you only the idea, and not the knowledge.

And well, combat is just different than shooting on a shooting range.

About ingame:

It's just a matter of preference. You can just spray one-by-one (1.07) or you can aim every bullet (1.08).

I personally prefer the ACE1 weapons' recoil, which is similar to that of 1.08, but more fancy.

Not only will the timing be difficult to master[...]

O, really?

And yes, OA is the same, from what I know.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Vultar

[wipman 1]

Hi, new bugs on the campaign.

- First To Fight.

- When you're on the Khe-Shan's deck hearing the comander or whatever... there is not sound, but you can still see the white text.

- When you follow the S.Leader to the briefing room... there's no sound and the screen turns entirely black seeing only the white text, this happens until the briefing ends.

- When you go to talk to Maddox, if you choose to be chillout with him... the entire screen turns black and you can only see the text, hear the UH-Y Venom's blades but the screen remains entirely black.

This is only the 1St campaign mission... Let's C ya

[Carl_D 10]

Carl, you're right. I've never shot a rifle, as it's not legal in my country and I am still not adult. However, shooting a gun gives you only the idea, and not the knowledge.

Um, that's truly confused. No, worse, it's just plain wrong. Shooting a real gun gives you the knowledge. Playing any game or sim does not and cannot as for one, there is no kinaesthetic input to your nervous system. I started skeet shooting in 1996, and rifle shooting even earlier. No FPS, not even BIS' sims, can remotely replicate the experience of firing a real gun.

Do you imagine you could fly a real 747 after simply playing a flight sim?

And well, combat is just different than shooting on a shooting range.

Never imagined for a moment that it wasn't. However, as Trooper117 confirmed - as an expert in real-life - the techniques for dealing with recoil are fundamentally the same.

And yes, OA is the same, from what I know.

Ah, thank you. Hmm - I should think the latest patch wouldn't have to be loaded as long as the previous update(s) are still available somewhere.

Ciao

Carl

[Dwarden 1125]

wipman may i ask You to also add this to CIT as tickets? would be really helpful (and always link the CIT ticket from your posts :) )

thanks in advance

[Vultar 0]

Carl, knowledge is not granted by playing games either.

Knowledge is acquired by something you will never be capable of.

I am being arrogant, how do you feel now? I guess you should change your altitude.

Otherwise, join a shooting forums instead.

Arma2 is a GAME, it's not meant to simulate real life, for god's sake.

You dont like the new recoil? Fine. Then you're in minority. Deal with it.

Found another bug...

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/175/arma2bug.jpg

Edited November 13, 2010 by Vultar

[Carl_D 10]

@Dwarden

Cross-referencing to what (I think) your post today was about re OA:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1787602&postcount=14

in the "AI refuses to move" thread.

I was playing IndeedPete's Grey Sky campaign [ACE2 version] on the v1.08 update & I encountered various issues that might be just version incomaptabilites with the author's scripting (works well on v1.07), yet also:

A team member refused to enter a car then merely said "Roger" & stayed immobile whatever order I gave. He was still holding his rifle.

Restarted the mission & this time the pistol bug resurfaced (at an earlier point in the mission, before I became team leader).

XP32 Pro SP3 multi-pprocessor free, i5-750@3.81 GHz, 4GB RAM, ATI 5850 1GB graphics, Arma2 v1.08, CBA 1.3 for Arma2 (ACE v373, ACEX v 252).

I'll play a few other SP missions to see if I get the 'stuck AI' issue - after removing the team's pistols, ofc.

Ciao

Carl

[GOL Cobra 0]

I seem to be getting kicked out of every server i join. I can get into the server lobby but when i click ok to load up it kicks me out.

There is no message or anything.

[Carl_D 10]

Carl, knowledge is not granted by playing games either.

My point precisely.

Knowledge is acquired by something you will never be capable of.

Really? I have a Bsc (Hons) and Ph.D in Biochemistry. My c.v. includes Cambridge, UK and Heidelberg universities; group leader in a global corporation, and two of the world's leading molecular biology labs. I have published in journals like PNAS, EMBO J., Nature, J. Cell. Biol. and, most frequently, J. Exp. Med.

I'm not only very adept at acquiring knowledge, I'm bloody good at putting it into use and creating new knowledge.

I am being arrogant, how do you feel now?

Actually, amused. To quote a British politician responding to an attack by an opposing Minister:

"I feel like I've just been savaged by a dead sheep".

OK, enough. Make all the ad hominem attacks you want, I won't clutter the thread further by responding.

Then you're in minority.

And the statistics are where, precisely?

Ciao

Carl

[wipman 1]

wipman may i ask You to also add this to CIT as tickets? would be really helpful (and always link the CIT ticket from your posts :) )

thanks in advance

Hi, sorry man but the CIT is too confuse for me, otherwise i would had been reporting the issues that i found in there instead on here; report on the CIT is very complex for someone with my poor level of english and also poor technic level, the America's Army Bugs Report Form is great, easy and simple, at least for those of us who reported bugs in there... .

- Into The Storm.

- All the members of your squad have RGO grenades instead M67 grenades.

- When you're told to take the LD and you do it, you leave/drop all your handgun magazines into the UH-1Y Venom.

- After talk to Valentina you get stunk, unable to move or do anything; but her face has been fixed and that was a nice surprise. Let's C ya

Edited November 13, 2010 by wipman

[birtuma 28]

it's only in ARMA 2: OA

Than you should remove the line from the changelog.

[Carl_D 10]

Than you should remove the line from the changelog.

Why not try " Ah thanks. Please could you remove it when you have a moment?"

Jeez, give the man a break. Here he & colleagues are on a Saturday, doing their level best to help people with issues & collect CITs so they can fix anything that's actually broken ASAP. Probably he and/or others will be working again tomorrow.

If you can't show some appreciation, politeness never hurt anyone.

Had you been more polite I might have asked you what card you had & pointed you to any work-rounds I might know.

Ciao

Carl

[maturin 12]

Arma2 is a GAME, it's not meant to simulate real life, for god's sake.

You dont like the new recoil? Fine. Then you're in minority. Deal with it.

The new recoil is annoying as hell. The justification is that it makes results of firefights more realistic (harder to shoot accurately in combat) while making the operation somewhat less realistic.

And it baffles me that this incredible demanding player base is suddenly rallying around this half-assed, goofy mechanic. I ran the game without the beta patch to experience the old recoil and it blew me away how easy it was to shoot. Better the new way than the old way but it *needs to be adjusted.*

It's idiotic that we can press the mouse five times and end up starting at the sky. This is even further from reality than the recoilless LMGs in MW2.

There should be a dynamic limit on muzzle climb when firing automatic, so the weapon stops climbing (you would never bend your back to accommodate it ffs) and begins to autocorrect vertically but wobble from side to side instead.

Semiautomatic fire should auto-correct for muzzle climb but not accurately, and it should overcompensate in multiple directions. This would not make shooting easier, indeed it would become more complicated to readjust, but you would not experience the frustration of sending half your shots into the stratosphere.

They tried to prevent player sniping and instead made suppression practically impossible without high fps and a nice trackball mouse.

Edit: And thanks for getting the patch to Steam fairly quickly. If it's only going to a delay of a day or so, a message about it would be nice because waiting for a bolt of lightning that may never come is no fun.

[Dwarden 1125]

Than you should remove the line from the changelog.

i was speaking about the UI advanced video options ...

the value in arma2.cfg should be working

vsync=0;

or

vsync=1;

[Steakslim 1]

Uh...in vanilla the recoil is nowhere near that bad Maturin. The only weapons that even give the least bit of trouble firing is the m240 and the mk48, and that's if you wanna rambo it up and try to full auto while standing. If you are running ACE mod I'd suggest you put in a support ticket on their dev tracker about the recoil because their recoil IS much stronger in that mod and can be a hassle at times for anything chambered higher than a 5.56 round, good luck trying to convince them to change it though.

[wipman 1]

Hi, what i find most annoying and certainly a game breaker thing, is the weapon sway rather than the recoil, standing, on the knees and prone; over all the weapon sway with the handguns, that haven't been touched from the Armed Assault 1.

It's impossible to hit anything at 10m if you're walking (slowly) aiming down the sights with an Aimpoint sighted weapon, let alone the ACOG sighted or any other weapon with zoom, so the AIs have a huge huge advantage over you because of this; and not only that... the AI see thru grass, bushes and fallen threes too. But on the weapons handling again... the M16/M4 series are famous for it's low recoil and how they handle it, moving the gun more backwards than how a G3 style weapon does, that this is moving the gun tip upwards and to the left much more than backwards. But again, what's much more unrealistic and really bad in gaming therms in my opinion, is the weapon sway, over all with the handguns... booth animations need a serious correction ASAP, because the actual weapons sway forces you to act as a static defence only; stopping for Hit On Target by force if you want to fireback effective fire at less than 20m, on Single, Burst or Auto, that don't matters because we're talking about the weapon sway when you're walking, not the recoil, that matters less in this case as IRL. That's what bothers me the most about the weapons handling, not the recoil; that i agree... needs a retouch on all the weapons. Let's C ya