Stryker Armor Strength

[Forum Troll 10]

The Strykers need to have their armor increased. It does not make any sense how one RPG can take out a vehicle with an RPG screen. Both the BTR-90 and Lav-25 from Arma 2 can take at least one RPG hit. This annoys me because it puts the stryker on the same level as the humvees.

[Laqueesha 474]

This has been a problem for many armoured vehicles in ArmA II. For instance, an M1A2 shouldn't spontaneously explode into a giant fireball after a few rockets from an RPG-7 strike in the frontal armour.

[Forum Troll 10]

I can't believe that it isn't brought up more.

[polar bear 10]

In real life a Challenger 2 in Basra was hit by 70 RPG's and survived.

How many RPG's does it take to kill a Challenger 2 in BAF?

Oh wait....

[CarlGustaffa 4]

So if armor value is simply increased to match RPGs, what happens to number of 20-30mm hits required to take it out? It needs a more extensive update than that. The biggest problem for me is how accurate the launchers are, and how they're not affected by gravity. 700m for RPG and 1500m for MAAWS is just nuts.

[dm 9]

and how they're not affected by gravity.

They are, but only after the rocket motor has burnt out :(

[dreday 1]

In real life a Challenger 2 in Basra was hit by 70 RPG's and survived.

How many RPG's does it take to kill a Challenger 2 in BAF?

Oh wait....

Really 70 RPG hits? Do you have a source for this? It seems very hard to believe...

Your second point is a good one. Respect for that!

---------- Post added at 05:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 AM ----------

BTW, ACE has an excellent system for handling armor penetration/damage that even accounts for such things as AP vs HEAT, ERA, and MESH screens! It would be great to see BIS adopt something along the same lines in the future updates.

[dm 9]

Really 70 RPG hits? Do you have a source for this? It seems very hard to believe...

The official report will still be classified for decades, but theres a snip in this news article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2905817.stm

and a crewmans account of it in one of the osprey CR2 books.

[polar bear 10]

So if armor value is simply increased to match RPGs, what happens to number of 20-30mm hits required to take it out? It needs a more extensive update than that. The biggest problem for me is how accurate the launchers are, and how they're not affected by gravity. 700m for RPG and 1500m for MAAWS is just nuts.

There needs to be better modelling of damage than simply how many hit points damage it does. That ACE system you mentioned should be adopted--especially with AT rounds where some types of armor are completely vulnerable to a certain kind of round, but impervious to other rounds. That's where you get 70 RPG's hitting a tank, because they were the wrong kind of round for the job. Fire a round designed just for such armor and it could be a one shot kill.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Polar Bear

[nodunit 397]

Armor needs to be Armor, right now Armor just means you can take an extra hit with an RPG or two if you're lucky or a few more if in a tank.

Tanks should also have this whole exploding thing vanish entirerly, it only happens when you hit ammo really which is why the abrams and I'm sure the others have failsafes for this. Actually this exploding thing needs to mostly vanish from vehicles in general, it's so hollywood.

Also nice would be to see these mods outside of ACE, don't get me wrong I like ACE but it sure would be nice if some of the features were availible OUTSIDE of the mod.

Edited September 6, 2010 by NodUnit

[ray243 11]

I'm pretty sure even a modern humvee can survive a RPG hit. Why does everything in Arma have a tendency to go up in flames like in a Michael bay movie?

[icebreakr 3114]

Not necessarily connected but damn right opposite of the armor: we took off with our Merlin and leader marked LZ... it proved that AI waited in ambush there and soon after we landed our Merlin took 8-10 RPG hits - to the suprise of entire squad it didnt go up in flames. We cleared the LZ and left Merlin there. 70 minutes into the mission one team returned and fixed the Merlin with repair truck and filled it up with gas :) sheesh? :)

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Not necessarily connected but damn right opposite of the armor: we took off with our Merlin and leader marked LZ... it proved that AI waited in ambush there and soon after we landed our Merlin took 8-10 RPG hits - to the suprise of entire squad it didnt go up in flames. We cleared the LZ and left Merlin there. 70 minutes into the mission one team returned and fixed the Merlin with repair truck and filled it up with gas :) sheesh? :)

Yep, I remember the extreme disapointment of sneaking all the way around to Krasnostav airfield in a Warfare match, waiting till an unsuspecting player bought a jet and got ready for take off. Fired 2 VR rounds, both of which impacted 100% and he just shrugged it off and flew away.:o

[HyperU2 11]

I'd like to see damage similar to Soldiers Heroes of WW2 and it's followers. That was just perfect despite other flaws in the game.

[nodunit 397]

they might get around to it, they are doing a great job thus far in improving things with bullet penetration and making MG's weaker to tanks and so on..right now they aren't too much the problem it's just too easy to take a tank out and you can aim anywhere for the most part rather than going for a disable kill or a crew kill.

While increasing the damage kind of words example APC's vs tanks vs TUSK..it's not really the best solution.

Edited September 6, 2010 by NodUnit

[lugiahua 26]

I'd like to see damage similar to Soldiers Heroes of WW2 and it's followers. That was just perfect despite other flaws in the game.

You mean the Face of War and Man of War series?

Yes, they do have the best armor system I knew of...

[HyperU2 11]

You mean the Face of War and Man of War series?

Yes, they do have the best armor system I knew of...

Yes, I never played any after Soldiers, the micromanagement could drive you nuts but the damage was excellent. A Codemasters title oddly enough.

[Decerto 10]

Men of War armour is awesome. If you get shot in the front you can see the shell bounce off. This whole vid is pretty funny but at 5:47 there are some crazy "bank shots" using frontal armour to bounce as shell off and hit another tank:yay:

[maturin 12]

I don't know how you people even survive without ACE 2.

[HyperU2 11]

I don't play without ACE 2.

It's not perfect.

[max power 21]

I think we are beginning to seriously underestimate the power of an rpg-7 in this thread.

The supposition that a humvee can withstand an rpg-7 hit seems a bit ludicrous. Even the old pg-7 rocket can penetrate 33 cm of armour. That's 13 inches. What you're trying to tell me by that is that the humvee has armour equivalent to over 1 foot of armour grade steel. The pg-7vl, the most common rocket depicted in ArmA 2 (I think), penetrates just less than twice that, at around 50cm or 20 inches. The pg-7vr penetrates 60-70cm, 20-40% more than the vl. Modern industry can do marvellous things, and I would be delighted to hear that they have made a truck that can take more beating than an APC, but I just don't see it happening.

I posted in a previous thread a link to a tradoc and referred to a page regarding what rpg screens are for. It showed a graph of rpg penetrating power over distance from the point of detonation. I think there are a couple of reasons for the rpg screen but they are not bullet proof solutions to the problems rpgs pose.

In my experience in OA, the Stryker can take a few hits by RPGs before they are rendered totally useless / explode. I think that plays out well enough.

Regarding the tank that took 70 rpgs hits and survived: That doesn't surprise me. MBTs are in a totally other world than rpgs / law rockets / at-4s. I'm no more surprised to read that than I would if I read that a Chally 2 tank took 700 hits from a baseball bat and kept driving. And yet, there have been reports of m1s being damaged by RPG-7s- even so badly as penetrating the side skirts and setting the hydraulic system on fire.

I think the game could use some more depth to the minimalHit type damage system- but to make an rpg no big deal for apcs I think would be the wrong way to go.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Max Power

[ray243 11]

But what about the uparmoured humvees? In OA, all it takes is one rpg.

[Beagle 684]

I'm pretty sure even a modern humvee can survive a RPG hit. Why does everything in Arma have a tendency to go up in flames like in a Michael bay movie?

No it cant since even heavier vehicles like fenecks get blown trought...but thats exactly the fact...RPGs are no big danger for light vehcikles since there is nothing the jet can do...In fact a HMG is more dangerous to a light armoured vehicle as a shape charges RPG.

Don't forget, the "armour" on light vehicles is ridiculous, it is not made to withstand a RPG like a PG7VL, instead it just let's it pass and contain the fragmentation, but all in the way of the metal jet will be serously hit.

Fragmentation or HE rounds are another matter...

BUT...how should this be simulated in ArmA without a physically bases penentration simulation for warheads.

BTW, if you use PG7V warheads the outcome is pretty close to what you want...the fact simply is that the PG7V is rales used by players or A.I....we tent to use OG7V, PG7VL and PG7VR...thats bad voodoo and has nothing to do with Iranian made single charge rounds they trow around in the middle east.

---------- Post added at 11:44 ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 ----------

But what about the uparmoured humvees? In OA, all it takes is one rpg.

what kind of RPG, thats the question.

The true problem is that the high powered and rather rare rounds above the PG7V With cant destroy a HMMWV in one hit, are the standard loadout of all PPG soldier incliding Isurgants in the game. This is the sipple solution...strip all but russian soldiers from the PG7VL and VR.

Wont work in MP of couse, there only respan restictions can work, so soneone who gets killed by mentioned HMMWV doesnt spawn with a fulll AT equipment in it' back.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Beagle

[max power 21]

I think that if even pg-7v hit a humvee obliquely in the crew compartment, it would shower the inside with spall. If it hit the engine compartment it would cut through the engine block.

It's not really a question of 'all it takes is one rpg'. I think shot placement has more to do with it. You're quite right to say that a humvee wouldn't explode from an rpg hit, bit if it hit the crew compartment and especially the glass, the crew would be out of action. If it hit the wheels or the engine, the humvee would be out of action.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Max Power

[HyperU2 11]

By that measure we definitely need a better damage system so you have to pick your shots.