CM Operation Flashpoint 3 announced | "Oops, they're doing it again..."

[76 0]

and Brittany Spears to do the theme music.... "Opps I did it again"....

It's strange how you speak so highly of this Templar, share the same city as this Templar, use the same ISP as this Templar, if I were a suspicious man I'd think there was something in that.....oh wait I am a suspicious man FPDR

Reminds me of [OCB]valour... er I mean AA2_Addict...

[Bulletbiter 10]

Despite Arma 2 seeming to be exactly what he wants in a game...

He wants a highly advanced AI and has made huge strides in that area. Nobody else has come even close to what he has acheived.

You appear to be deceived by a false perception that the AI is perfect in ArmA.

[Buzz_Fledderjohn 0]

Gawd I hope this guy doesn't have children.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/general-discussion-1335/424310-operation-flashpoint-tattoo.html

So. Much. Win.

And it's the only reply too, beautiful...

If you have an account there, please don't reply, skepp's reply said it all :D

EDIT: made a screengrab.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Buzz_Fledderjohn

[Zipper5 74]

He wants a highly advanced AI and has made huge strides in that area. Nobody else has come even close to what he has acheived.

You appear to be deceived by a false perception that the AI is perfect in ArmA.

I certainly don't think it's perfect. As a mission editor I recognize this wholeheartedly, but it's the best in the industry at what it does. Tell me - do Templar's hacks actually make the AI recognize all roads on Skira when driving?

Edited August 28, 2010 by Zipper5

[Bulletbiter 10]

but it's the best in the industry at what it does.

Agreed, but there is certainly room for improvement.

Tell me - do Templar's hacks actually make the AI recognize all roads on Skira when driving?

No, he made no progress in that area.

[Zipper5 74]

Yup, so an area where Arma 2's vanilla AI are already superior. However, group more than 1 vehicle to another and try to have them move as a convoy, and they'll have a hard time sticking to the roads. As I said, I recognize the AI isn't without it's faults, but it's still the best in the industry.

[ArmAIIholic 10]

Bulletbiter, it's been a while since I've had DR installed, so I haven't looked at what he's managed to achieve more recently. However, from what I saw, he scripted the AI to do certain things specific to the objectives he created for a particular mission.

So, for Island War he scripted that if the player captured a flag, x amount of time later 3 enemy units would spawn (y% chance of them being infantry, z% chance of them being light vehicles...), try to recapture the flag and then hold it.

He made another mission where you were moving from one side of the island to the other. For the purposes of this, he scripted that enemy units would spawn in front of the player and try to flank aggressively.

A2's AI can be scripted in such a way (have a look at WICT mod for example), but most people don't bother, since the AI generally do an acceptable job without their hands being held.

If Templar made any significant specific improvements to the way the game engine intrinsically controls AI units, I would be interested to hear what he achieved, having uninstalled DR before his latest stuff.

Hey guys I see you are talking about AI and TemplarGFX's work, so I wanted to reply, but without much concern what will happen to this discussion.

Maybe some of you had scripted and programmed in DR, but I just have a feeling that lots of you didn't even try. At least some of you are just reading the articles on CM forum. Although I hope you are scripting in ArmA, right?

Now I was there in the same time TemplarGFX worked on his Island War and I tried to work with him, but he didn't have time and had something else on mind (read below). And there was a global notion there - no room for newbies.

I wrote about Sandboxing ArmA II and I even wrote a disclaimer (here is raw version) because you guys, meaning on both forums, hate each other.

I like programming and want to make something better and since I worked in both on both games now I can say that ArmA is much more realistic and scripting-friendly.

For example, regarding difficulties in programming, many people talk about FPS, but spawning in ArmA is much better than in DR. It is powered by engine itself. Contrary, in DR you have to monitor spawning and many times, even if you got handle that something is spawned, that doesn't necessary mean that it will appear in the game.

So programmer is forced to write own semaphores which is really painful job. That is just one obvious example. Many more are there, not going to bother you now, it is not the point. Just respect any programmer's / scripter's work.

Now, about Island War I won't talk too much because I respect what TemplarGFX did as programmer, although I could write much since there were times a literally pleased and begged him to work together (here is my work). But I finally realized one thing ---- those were two completely different approaches -- his was action oriented, mine was realistic oriented. Period. No compromise.

What I tried to do is to make all the features that ArmA (A1 or first OFP) has inside OPF-DR engine (which, I can say now, is only better graphics). And I was judged here too, because of that notion and, as I said, I even wrote a disclaimer. But community accepted me and that is one of the reasons I stayed.

The other is this:

In contrast to many first-person shooter games, the war doesn’t stop and start at your convenience. You’ll find corpses, stumble upon unscripted battles, and encounter friendly troops on patrol, creating the impression that the fighting will continue with or without you. At the same time, your actions can have a profound influence on the story as the campaign unfolds. (Gamespot about ArmA).

Which brings me to the core. Therefore, before judging programming, decide for yourself which genre do you prefer. I prefer realistic military simulation and I am looking ONLY on programming such thing, not which game is better.

OFP-DR had AI that is pumped up from the beginning, lots of available ammo, lots of intentionally missed shots from AI just to make CoD atmosphere. How do I know? I spent months working and testing. Than Templar did his tweak but I really don't see why is it superior over Zeus AI, for e.g.

Someone mentioned popping out head from cover and boom -- if you want one head shot kill you can tweak accuracy and skill, but that is not AI... That is just a program on a fast processor that cheats. You can make it cheat and add some randomization factor, so it won't be obvious, but that is still not an AI.

And OPF-DR soldier running across the field in Schwarzenegger style, while bullets flying around and he gets through without injury is not an AI! Although it looks pretty, as CoDMW, MoH, BBC2 etc. do, it get's boring. Explanation why, if you like to know, is here:

Yes I played WiC and it's on my shelf, it has a special place. What I wanted is to make free-roaming mission that has exact atmosphere that WiC has. I wrote about that in Sandboxing ArmAII and recently I finished the module 360ISM. WICT is a spontaneous sequel.

I know that WiC is RTS and A2 and WICT are FPS. But there is one thing I admire the most - atmosphere. It is honor for me to make this mod and call it WiC(T).

The atmosphere should be like you started WiC and switched to first person - you have zones, points, reinforcements. To keep everything simple and in the spirit of free-roaming there are bases which spawn units and you can setup each base individually depending on which side controls it. Therefore, there is no element of buying units, but there was no construction in WiC neither (Company of heros had that :)). Plus A2 has its own construction module, so yes anyone can implement it and have reinforcements and buying units like WiC has.

In WiC, in every single moment, you have a clear battlefront that you push and push until you conquer some point, and then hell starts - you have to defend it :D Thus my favorite mission was pushing enemy forces off the bridges and climbing my way up the hill through the small town, till I get to the church to find out that Bannon screwed up again and that you have to defend that place. Or when I was almost crushed, radio called and USS Missouri came to help. Or destroying submarines before they sail out. Or heavy gunships in France pounding down poor tanks. Oh boy. Atmosphere...

And my biggest goal was to make every part of the map -- battlefield (if necessary). Not just randomly populating the world, so that units spawn nowhere and go nowhere. Or making predefined centers and spawn locations. WiC had the clear moments when spawning didn't end because you didn't step inside some circle -- but units didn't wander either. The battle was going on and on. Reinforcements on both sides. The action, the thrill. This is the matter of RTS.

On the other hand a lots of shooters these days are successful only because two things: superb graphics and atmosphere, or both. Sadly, the common feature is that they capture the action and the thrill, but it repeats in the single player and they often have multiplayer to cover it -- Call of Duty, Battlefield, Medal of Honor -- you teammates are heros that cannot die (if there are AI teammates, or you are just a Rambo), and once you memorize the chain of events you can play it all the way through with closed eyes! AI has predefined cover places so first time you play you think they are smart ("oh bastard flanked me"). Second time "come on, he just run at my bullet". So the only thing that reaaaally dies during the gameplay is the atmosphere itself.

Now, imagine free roaming that has thrilling action and great atmosphere where every single time you play it is completely different - where enemy tries to capture your base and points like in WiC and the moments like Normandy in CoD or armor battles in WiC and sneaking behind enemy lines are something that happens all the time and in unscripted, unbiased, not-predefined way... Now imagine it for COOP (or even MP).

Imagine it as easy usable addon, so anyone can make warfare.

That is my goal :cool: To make this even better.

Great AI is when you can write FSM and set waypoint completion radius and then units choose their way. I manged to create dynamic battlefronts that are not created from some predefined pool of waypoints, but calculated and constructed in the background with AI doing their job.

As this qoute says:

Ernest Adams gave a talk at a precursor to AIIDE many years back, while I was still in grad school, in which he compared game AI programmers to magicians, because we are both in the business of creating an illusion, of convincing an audience of something that is not real. In our case it is the illusion of intelligence.

every programmer will choose his own method to create an illusion. I even had a (as stupid for a nickname, but never mind) nickname "Prestige" because I like the movie with that name (2006) and it is about illusions.

At the end, when it comes to atmosphere I vote for ArmA (from the first OFP !!!). If I didn't do what I did in terms of scripting, I think I wouldn't have right to say anything. But I made it there, I made it here even better, an on top I enjoyed it more. And I see more potential. It is a matter of taste if you like pumped action or realistic simulation.

I think ArmA2 is THAT realistic simulation.

Best regards,

ArmAIIholic

Edited August 28, 2010 by ArmAIIholic

[vilas 477]

tatoo with Dragon Rising, o my god

i thought i have seen all idiots in my life,... i was wrong , there are bigger idiots

[Zipper5 74]

What more can you expect from CM trying, and most-likely failing, to bring OFP into the mainstream?

[maddogx 13]

What more can you expect from CM trying, and most-likely failing, to bring OFP into the mainstream?

If you ask me, they are trying nothing of the sort. My guess is that they are primarily trying to emulate the success of the COD franchise, with the long term goal of creating their own similar series of games. The OFP name is just a means toward that end - it is recognizable.

It wasn't really clear back before DR was released, though. Some of the devs were obviously keen on making a true successor to OFP (especially that one guy who left the team), but then I assume the big suits of CM stepped in, saying "Hey guys, Activision have this huge COD thing going on, making them millions. MILLIONS! Make the game more like that." ...

We already know that the development of DR was troubled and they had to start from scratch several times (or something like that), and I think that's the main reason. Now they have RR in the pipeline, which is the next logical step: more streamlined, more hollywood, no more modability. They're obviously trying to market it as a "more realistic COD" and hoping it will achieve similar sales.

Like I said, this has nothing to do with failing to make a successor to OFP, because that would imply that they were actually trying.

[Zipper5 74]

If you ask me, they are trying nothing of the sort. My guess is that they are primarily trying to emulate the success of the COD franchise, with the long term goal of creating their own similar series of games. The OFP name is just a means toward that end - it is recognizable.

I did think of it as something similar to that, MadDogX...

I just couldn't wrap my head around how unbelievably brain-dead retarded it is that they thought they could take the OFP brand, of all brands, and emulate the success of Call of Duty...

The OFP brand was successful back with CWC, Gold Upgrade, Resistance and Elite, but no where near holding the same potential for money-making as the COD franchise did and does. For them to think it a good idea to try and turn it into that is just...

Well, it's brain-dead retarded! FPDR

And I swear, if it works, I will lose hope in the mainstream gaming industry...

[maddogx 13]

And I swear, if it works, I will lose hope in the mainstream gaming industry...

You haven't already? ;)

[Zipper5 74]

I'd say it's on the brink...

Not bad for 10 minutes of work, no? It's really shocking when you actually see them next to each other...

Edited August 28, 2010 by Zipper5

[ben_s 11]

And with them not having ME for Red River, Hmmmm

I doubt even TemplarGFX is going to buy it. Since the only reason he stuck with DR was the editor.

CM = Idiots

[froggyluv 2136]

They took out the mission editor :eek:

Seems they're just taking away things with nothing exciting to add. Would be remarkable if it didn't even live up to DR -seriously, what are they thinking.

If they left the ME, upped the entity count (300 or so) and added more animations and some wildlife/civvies, I'd be somewhat interested...

I've pretty much given up on the genre for now. Maybe I should try more Arma MP, for as it stands I just don't find fighting and killing AI fun anymore. Theres no real surprises in CQB, and soldiers don't react very well at close range so sneaking up behind there positions and taking out a whole squad isn't that impressive. Maybe a ragdoll/animation combo would give a more satisfying kill experience -don't know, but I'm going back to Warband until something interesting comes along.

[Flash Thunder 10]

They took out the mission editor :eek:

Seems they're just taking away things with nothing exciting to add. Would be remarkable if it didn't even live up to DR -seriously, what are they thinking.

If they left the ME, upped the entity count (300 or so) and added more animations and some wildlife/civvies, I'd be somewhat interested...

I've pretty much given up on the genre for now. Maybe I should try more Arma MP, for as it stands I just don't find fighting and killing AI fun anymore. Theres no real surprises in CQB, and soldiers don't react very well at close range so sneaking up behind there positions and taking out a whole squad isn't that impressive. Maybe a ragdoll/animation combo would give a more satisfying kill experience -don't know, but I'm going back to Warband until something interesting comes along.

CM just want to put enough in the game that they could get away with conning people with, ala a singleplayer and coop 10 mission campaign= finnished product that they could sell for 60 dollars.

????

CONNED!

[Zipper5 74]

Hm, you hardcore DR fans seem rather pissed off...

Perhaps we need to get out that old, dusty "We told you so" sign we used at DR's release? :p

[Jelliz 10]

Hm, you hardcore DR fans seem rather pissed off...

Perhaps we need to get out that old, dusty "We told you so" sign we used at DR's release? :p

The

also has it

:rolleyes:

[Bulletbiter 10]

I just had a quick look over at the Red River forum and there is a huge crapstorm going on already.

[Laertes 10]

Said crapstorm in the form of a poll.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Having finished the extended demo of Mafia 2, the only thing CM will come up is DR 2 and the peasants will love it. I already see multiplayer 4x4 km maps, .50 sniper rifles & jets DLC$.

People seem to be content with half-finished products which they've bought based on lies and deception. Ahh, the public - gotta love it.

I even suggested to TemplarGFX to come over to Arma 2, seeing his modding skills, but it became rather obvious, that he is on Codemasters' payroll, posing as an enthusiastic modder/fan.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Iroquois Pliskin

[Bulletbiter 10]

It would be now best for ArmA fans to distance themselves from the name 'Operation Flashpoint' because Codemasters are giving those words an embarrassing reputation.

After Red River is released anyone who dares mention the words 'Operation Flashpoint' in public can expect to hear much low pitched giggling.

[Flash Thunder 10]

Having finished the extended demo of Mafia 2, the only thing CM will come up is DR 2 and the peasants will love it. I already see multiplayer 4x4 km maps, .50 sniper rifles & jets DLC$.

People seem to be content with half-finished products which they've bought based on lies and deception. Ahh, the public - gotta love it.

I even suggested to TemplarGFX to come over to Arma 2, seeing his modding skills, but it became rather obvious, that he is on Codemasters' payroll, posing as an enthusiastic modder/fan.

except CM isnt even going to put that much effort into the game tis time around, only SP and Coop, no editor or PVP.

so now whats DLC going to be, another 3, 5 minute long run n gun segments?

CM just stop. FPDR

[ArmAIIholic 10]

I even suggested to TemplarGFX to come over to Arma 2, seeing his modding skills

And what about people already doing here more than he did there? What is exactly point of this conversation - going blind for ArmA and modders here (DAC that was here before Island War, Zeus AI that rocks, my mod WICT that brings dynamic battlefronts, then VTS3.5 - Live Multiplayer coop mission editor (which doesn't exist in DR and never will etc.))? [not just about your reply Iroquois Pliskin, I pull it out of context, I admit, but I am looking back at some other replies as well]

Did you even read this?

Here is yours

xa xa xa :D

Realistic military simulation, right? :D

Edited August 29, 2010 by ArmAIIholic

[ck-claw 1]

Said crapstorm in the form of a poll.

Lol- from that poll ! Made me chuckle :D

crackshot:- Smart enough to convince a handful of gullible people like yourself to purchase a dirty turd.

No matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd....

TremplarGFX:- you remind me of Zipper5, he had an obsession with turd too

crackshot:- You remind me of jarrodb.

Musuca:- Do we have some double agents in here!?