One issue with OA...

[the_duality 10]

Hello everyone,

Recently got a copy of OA and loving it so far, apart from a couple of niggling issues:

I play a lot using the mission generator wizard, using it to generate a "combat" mission with secops and support etc. It worked fine in vanilla ArmA, but now when playing a combat scenario in OA with the KSK troops, some of them insist on switching to their pistols, even when engaging at 400m and beyond. If I teamswitch to them, they have ammunition available - and their currently loaded magazines are not empty. Bit of an immersion killer, and frustrating as hell. Any ideas?

The other issue, which I assume is addressed a lot on the forums is the driving AI. Even when a vehicle is already on the road, if I give it a move order, it moves off-road for a bit, then returns to the road - which is incredibly annoying and unrealistic. Knowing BIS however, I am sure this is work in progress :)

Any solutions to the first issue would be appreciated!

[cole 0]

Both are (unfortunately) very known bugs, and hopefully atleast the pistol one will get fixed soon. AI drivers however.. I wouldn't count on any giant improvements.

Solution to the first issue? Remove their pistols! :D

Sounds bad, but afaik theres no other "fix" to this... yet.

[jakerod 254]

Yeah the best solution to the pistol thing is to have them drop their pistols on the ground or into a vehicle if you have one. That way you can use their ammo later on.

[the_duality 10]

Good to know that it is a known bug and I am not just losing my mind!

Having played a little more, especially with exiting ArmA2 content, there are a few things that are now glaringly obvious - such as ArmA2 weapons having a laser pointer at them and no way to use it, and the one that disappointed me most - the AH-1Z Cobra is pretty much un-useable. I can't view ammo levels in the Cobra without being the gunner, and there is now no HUD. This is in the Armory, I have not tried in the editor yet.

Are there any plans for BIS themselves to fix these issues? I couldn't find anything about the Cobra in the community issue tracker anyway. I really do hope they plan on bringing at least some of the ArmA2 content up to OA's level, some of the ArmA2 content (such as the Cobra) is barely worth playing any more IMO.

[sputnik monroe 102]

The pistol bug has been around since they introduced pistols with Resistance nine or ten years ago, it'll never ever get fixed.

The AI driving I don't understand, it was completely broken in Vanilla OFP fixed within a few patches and near perfect in Resistance, then went down hill with Arma onwards.

One step forward, two back?

[Bozmore 10]

maybe one of the very few things codemasters contributed more to than bi

[Baron von Beer 0]

If the driving is a work in progress it's a long time coming.... As said, in OFP:Resistance, convoys worked pretty well. In Arma 1 convoys could get chaotic, but were possible. In Arma 2/OA trying to get a convoy to do anything but drive 20m, stop, twist, turn, do the hokey pokey, resume for 20m, rinse and repeat, is like trying to get a pack of baboons on LSD during mating season to perform a Broadway musical.

Tracked vehicles sort of works, because they can rotate while idle. Wheeled vehicles, best to leave in groups of 2 or less. They still spazz out now and again, but at least they don't make every other vehicle behind them do the same.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Baron von Beer

[the_duality 10]

Well that is disheartening!

I can forgive the driving to a certain extent - it is one of those things I have just come to accept. But the promises of having both ArmA2 and OA content in one, yet finding that you might as well just run the games separate (because next to no features have been ported) is a bit of a kick in the teeth to be frank. I love BIS games, I can see through the bugs and enjoy them for what they are - but when things are just broken, and there is such a disparity between the quality of OA's content and the original ArmA2 content - after it was promised that everything is compatible etc, it is slightly disappointing.

Edit:

Also @Sputnik re the pistol thing - I never had any such issue in ArmA2 vanilla, the issue only started for me in OA :(

Edited July 18, 2010 by the_duality

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Haven't tried in OA yet, but convoys were possible in Arma2 as long as they didn't spot any enemies, at which all hell broke loose. They do take some time to "get organized" when they start, but I didn't have the problems mentioned if I managed their maximum speed.

Wheeled vehicles, best to leave in groups of 2 or less.

Not much a a group then, huh? :p

[Baron von Beer 0]

It's at least a group in editor terms. :D

Like type vehicles do have a higher success rate in larger groups, they just break out the dance routine less frequently. Differing speeds of different wheeled types, and especially tracked & wheeled vehicles mixed are a recipe for disaster.

I've often wondered if a new formation would help. Column Spaced, or whatever you want to call it. A new formation option with increased spacing from the standard column. Won't help when one of the drivers decides "I'm going to cut 90 degrees and stop for absolutely no reason", but it would probably help a lot when they decide "I'm going to veer slightly, slow down, and then resume the speed I was going for absolutely no reason".

The extra space would presumably help prevent the ripple effect when the latter occurs, which almost always has one of the reacting drivers behind pull the former, and the former is what typically turns convoys into gigantic cluster f***s.

[nkenny 1057]

I play a lot using the mission generator wizard, using it to generate a "combat" mission with secops and support etc. It worked fine in vanilla ArmA, but now when playing a combat scenario in OA with the KSK troops, some of them insist on switching to their pistols, even when engaging at 400m and beyond. If I teamswitch to them, they have ammunition available - and their currently loaded magazines are not empty. Bit of an immersion killer, and frustrating as hell. Any ideas?

Only seems to happen with troops armed with the G17 (glock 17) and then in particular the German troops. This bug is probably related to the rifle-At-rifle switcharoo dance. (which has also been going on since opf days)

-k

[Killerwatt 0]

I did a bit of experimenting in the editor in combined operations in Takistan with an AI driven humvee and just by clicking a destination on the map it was remarkably good at following the road system to the destination. It even stayed on the right side of the road and funniest of all, it stopped to avoid running over a rabbit which was hopping over the road! So all in all, the AI driving is getting there.

[frederf 0]

There are a lot of subtleties to the driving AI in A2:

1. Say F2, F3, F4 are drivers of trucks. You select all 3 and send them to a destination. Alternately you send them one at a time (F2 move X, F3 move X, F4 move X). Are these the same actions? No.

2. What about combat state. Send the group of 3 from above in formation wedge, aware then try it in formation wedge, safe. Will they behave the same? No.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Can you do a safe wedge at all? On the more extreme side of things; some behavior commands affects the whole group, others can affect individuals. Pretty confusing as it's not mentioned anywhere.

[xALIENAx 10]

Can you do a safe wedge at all? On the more extreme side of things; some behavior commands affects the whole group, others can affect individuals. Pretty confusing as it's not mentioned anywhere.

I've learned 2 things mission making since Arma

1. No matter what you do, what you try, how many times it works, AI will always have some element of psychotic behavior. you can run something 10 times and it works, and the 11th time it goes straight to h... well you get the picture.

2. The only garuenteed way to get a vehilce group to stay in an exact formation is to have them in a nice wide open area and "attach" them. works great for cinematic scenes when you know where vehciles and player will be at a certain time... as for dynamic mixed convoys that one can interact with... beter forget about it

[Alwarren 2767]

maybe one of the very few things codemasters contributed more to than bi

Judging from the driving in Dragon Rising, all driving code improvements where done by BIS and Codemasters fought to the blood to have them removed. Driving in Dragon Rising is horrible, both for yourself and AI drivers. I do not think the AI in DR has any sense of objects (or roads, for the matter), they will happily drive full speed into a tree.

[the_duality 10]

Only seems to happen with troops armed with the G17 (glock 17) and then in particular the German troops. This bug is probably related to the rifle-At-rifle switcharoo dance. (which has also been going on since opf days)

-k

This is what I have noticed. It worked fine in vanilla ArmA2, and it works fine with all other troops. It only seems to be the KSK troops with the G17 affected.

[Dwarden 1125]

may i ask,

which units are switching to pistol when firing over 100-200m?

[the_duality 10]

may i ask,

which units are switching to pistol when firing over 100-200m?

From what I remember, it appears to be random KSK units when playing as part of a KSK specops squad. I have only noticed it in the wizard built "combat" missions. Last time I played, the paramedic and one of the operators switched to pistols.

When I teamswitch to them, the game immediately switches the weapon I am holding from pistol to rifle - and there is ammunition left in the rifle. When I teamswitch away again, the unit switches to pistol again.

It only happens to KSK units that have a G17 pistol, from what I can tell. No issues with any other units in OA or vanilla ArmA2.

Thanks for the reply :)

[pre-Vet 10]

You could remove the pistols as AI dont really need them and never use em (correct me if I'm wrong)

I see a lot of AI soldiers find it hard to embark on vehicles, when given the "get in" order they run around, lie down, run around some more and finnaly say "negative" after issuing the command a few times they will get in eventhough the situation didnt change so I wonder why they wouldnt get in in the first place.

second thing that gets me annoyed is when in the editor, syncing the "get in" waypoint and the "load" waypoint, in arma II the helicopter would land and wait while on the ground, and in OA he waits in the air till the "get in" waypoint is met.

dont know if its just me messing it up or some changes have been made and I didnt find the positive side of em yet.

[ProfTournesol 956]

From what I remember, it appears to be random KSK units when playing as part of a KSK specops squad. I have only noticed it in the wizard built "combat" missions. Last time I played, the paramedic and one of the operators switched to pistols.

When I teamswitch to them, the game immediately switches the weapon I am holding from pistol to rifle - and there is ammunition left in the rifle. When I teamswitch away again, the unit switches to pistol again.

It only happens to KSK units that have a G17 pistol, from what I can tell. No issues with any other units in OA or vanilla ArmA2.

Thanks for the reply :)

Same issue here, quite annoying.

[the_duality 10]

Just done some more testing - it appears to be the Scout and Paramedic units of the KSK specops squad that are using their pistols over their default rifle.

Hope this narrows it down for the devs :)

EDIT: Posted it on the community bug tracker too :)

Edited July 19, 2010 by the_duality