[OA] Enhancing ArmA2 Content with OA Features

[PuFu 4600]

Not really, I'm quite confident the 'character length' rule you refer too wouldn't apply in this instance.

Haven't checked per say, but irc adding a new texture path to an existing p3d screwed up the file altogether. Obviously, i might be wrong, and there was something else that broke the file in that process

[Max255 59]

can't really do that as it is now, since you would be needing MLODs.

Of course one could try using A1 MLODs for some vehicles

Regarding infantry, I don't know if the models were sold or something, but we could ask Johnny for MLODs, his marines for A1 are nearly identical to A2 ones... That would make things a bit easier.

Weapons? Most are A1 models with just upgraded textures... A2 exclusives could be done in other way...

Haven't checked per say, but irc adding a new texture path to an existing p3d screwed up the file altogether. Obviously, i might be wrong

Why would we need to add texture path? As I saw (when tried to do the retexture of Delta's) there are no paths to "_ti" texture... Though, I don't know how it's done other way...

Edited July 1, 2010 by Max255[PL]

[Synide 0]

mmm, well, it does help if one knows stuff that one probably shouldn't... the 'rule' you refer is well... not really true... but I think were digressing a little.

Personally, I don't think the effort is worth the reward. I agree with pufu that I'd be surprised if BIS supplied the mlods for a community effort to OA'ize them. And, if they were convinced to do it themselves, I'd prefer they reallocated those man hours to enhancing the oh so sad state of the tools suite.

[Fox '09 14]

-snip-

[Big Dawg KS 6]

And, if they were convinced to do it themselves, I'd prefer they reallocated those man hours to enhancing the oh so sad state of the tools suite.

Those are two different groups of devs, don't forget. Artists probably wouldn't be working on tools, and instead would probably be working on content for DLC.

And if BIS does have a plan for releasing DLC, surely they have considered how to keep that from being redistributed. Perhaps this same method can be used for OA enhanced ArmA2 content.

[PuFu 4600]

mmm, well, it does help if one knows stuff that one probably shouldn't... the 'rule' you refer is well... not really true... but I think were digressing a little.

Sharing is carring, especially when it comes to a very undocumented set of tools

I'd prefer they reallocated those man hours to enhancing the oh so sad state of the tools suite.

I agree with you. Sometimes I really doubt BI is actually using O2 for making and setting up those models..

[STALKERGB 6]

@Synide, ah didn't realise the TI map is baked into the models during binarization, was just going with tests on my own units, should probably have thought about it lol!

I guess you would need the models then.

EDIT:

Why would we need to add texture path? As I saw (when tried to do the retexture of Delta's) there are no paths to "_ti" texture... Though, I don't know how it's done other way...

If you are referring to there being no ti_ca.paa texture in the material viewer you are right its not there. But it is there... you need to open the RVMAT with notepad or similar to see it.

Edited July 1, 2010 by STALKERGB

[Synide 0]

@STALKERGB... The actual texture isn't baked into the .p3d. But the information from the .rvmat is. In this case the path to your newly created _ti texture for the A2 models that don't have one and you'd want to OA'ize would be inserted into the currently 'empty' StageTI of those A2 models for the .rvmat embedded in the .p3d.

And, most importantly, you'd have to insert into the currently empty 'Thermal Profile' structure the...

class ManThermalProfile : Default
{
   htMin = 60;
   htMax = 1800;
   afMax = 0;
   mfMax = 0;
   mFact = 1;
   tBody = 37;
};

...information that is currently missing from the A2 default BIS content. The above are standard values for a character. Different values would be used for other things.

[STALKERGB 6]

And, most importantly, you'd have to insert into the currently empty 'Thermal Profile' structure

@Synide, cheers for clearing that up for me :) where abouts would the thermal profile have to go? Is that part of the units config or the model.cfg?

[Synide 0]

When you're creating a model from scratch it lives in the model.cfg file.

And, gets embedded during binarization. As does the .rvmat's (but, not damaged related ones, only primary .rvmat's).

But, here the talk is of altering BIS default A2 models to enable TI.

A2 .p3d's are at version 48 and OA models are at version 49. The A2v48 odol's have the TI profile structure as the v49 versions do. It's just devoid of those values (exampled previously).

I'm away for a long weekend so won't be able to look further into this till Monday/Tuesday, sorry.

[Smurf 12]

No way that BIS would give those files to a handful of trusted modders to work in and release in a patch or something, if they don´t do it by themselves?

Seems unfair to have such cool features in "half a dozen" units (plus future DLCs) when there is people willing to do such a thing.

Good luck in your quest guys!

[CameronMcDonald 146]

I'd love to see BIS handle this themselves to ensure we get the maximum attention-to-detail that something like this really needs.

Has anyone made a ticket for this on the CBT? I'd LOVE to vote.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Well, so far I am looking at two possible outcomes.

1. The idea gains enough support in the community to convince BIS to upgrade the content from ArmA2 and the release it as DLC.

2. BIS does nothing, and it's up to the community to figure it out.

And while I'm sure we can get plenty of support, I doubt it'd be enough to convince BIS...

[AnimalMother92 10]

And while I'm sure we can get plenty of support, I doubt it'd be enough to convince BIS...

Is there a CIT ticket for this yet? I would pay for "DLC" that upgraded A2 stuff gladly.

[mattxr 9]

It works, but only with default values. It's not as detailed as the OA units. To make them so would require modifications to the textures.

Im sorry but i dont no how you came to that conclusion.

As you can see in this picture the Tanks have the same heat engine sources and the infantry glow the same.. Using Default ArmA II USMC Units and M1A1 and then using US Infantry and M1A2 Tusk Arrowhead units..

[Max255 59]

Yep, but... Put USMC guy next to US Army dude, zoom until they "fill" the scope and you'll see the difference...

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Im sorry but i dont no how you came to that conclusion.

Take a closer look. The old ArmA2 units don't have any detail, they just have a solid color across their whole body. OA units have correct hot spots and cold spots. It may not be as noticable on people, but it sure as hell makes a huge difference on the vehicles.

---------- Post added at 08:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 AM ----------

Is there a CIT ticket for this yet? I would pay for "DLC" that upgraded A2 stuff gladly.

In addition to a CIT ticket, you could make a poll in the ArmA2 & OA General forum to find out if people would be willing to pay for said DLC.

Possible choices:

-Yes, I would be willing to pay for such DLC

-Yes, it'd be nice for free, but I wouldn't pay

-No, BIS should move on and make new content

-I don't care

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Comparison of OA Army guy with a model for A2:

..and here's something funny I noticed with the same guy. In Thermals, you can see he has the 82nd Airborne insignia with an ISAF patch, but in both Night Vision and daylight, you cannot see it. It also not on the colormap texture.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

:cool: Secret hidden badges that are only visible with thermal.

[Fox '09 14]

do want

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

I am also happy to report that, like vehicles, bodies also cool off with time.

[Banderas 0]

I am also happy to report that, like vehicles, bodies also cool off with time.

But hopefully not the way they cool in MW2 or Dragon Rising, see being dead and body temp falls to zero in like 1.5 seconds?

[Big Dawg KS 6]

No, it takes a lot of time. Dead soldiers & vehicles will remain warm for at least a matter of minutes.

[Synide 0]

mmm, yeah, I found some time finally to check if one could 'upgrade' a A2 odolv48 model with a TI.

The answer is... Yes, it can be done.

Editing the .p3d is quite a bit of work to do manually so a tool would probably be required. And, I don't know if I can be bothered with that.

As an example the A2 usmc_soldier_tl.p3d was looked at. Todo proper TI enhancement on it would require creating 5 '_ti_ca' textures. As well as copying, renaming and config'ing a new edited version of the .p3d.

Things of note that can make some less than desireable results.

If the original UV'ing job was less than ideal it can make your retexturing job a little unsightly. For instance in this particular model the bracket mounting on the helmet occupies the same UV space as a portion of the leg. So when you maybe make the bracket area 'cooler' some of the leg polygons also end up being 'cooler'. But, who's going to look that closely eh?

In the test a 'nasty' quick _ti.paa was made with over-emphasized hot & cold areas on a single material section within the model so as to rapidly see if it was working or not. So, please don't think this is a 'good' example of a _ti.

In the following image you can see that a 'new' _ti texture was applied just to 1 of the 5 materials in this model. Represented in the mini facsimile overlayed by the blue area. The green respresents the other 4 material sections that were not mod'd in the file.

Warning. Image size 104 kBytes.

Also, the resultant .pbo consisted of a config, p3d & a _ti_ca.paa so not a 'lot' of additional data required.

Personally, I don't really want to spend the time on this sort of stuff myself and preferrably BIS would be better off (and easier) if they were inclined to upgrade the A2 material themselves. Although, this doesn't seem to be on their agenda.

While it's a nice idea Big Dawg KS I'll restate the obvious again... How would you be able to deliver the upgraded content without BIS's input? I don't think you could.

Some thoughts at least... Cheers.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Synide

[Cyborg11 10]

You don't need to manually edit the .p3d :)

You can use MoveObject (I think it's the right tool) from Mikero Tools :)