ARMA 2 (OA) : DLC discussion thread

[Fred DM 0]

-For the million companies who have handled paid DLC badly, I can think of maybe the flight-sim community and Bethesda (Fallout 3) that have handled it reasonably well. ...And Bethesda gave us the phrase 'horse armour'.

the only reason why Bethesda is considered to have handled DLC relatively well is because they put all their DLC on discs and sold them like regular expansion packs, but that too had its downsides;

their electronic distribution wasn't very good;

- the Oblivion DLC could only be bought directly from Bethesda, and it was copy protected, which has been causing problems. since their webshop is no longer up, that DLC is no longer available in electronic form.

- the Knights of the Nine expansion was initially way overpriced. it contained all the Oblivion DLC without copy protection, which means it's very easily pirated. i doubt BIS would want to go that route. their to small a developer to take such risks.

- the Fallout 3 DLC is handled through Games for Windows Live. need i say more? it's the cancer of pc gaming ffs.

DLC on the PC remains a very tricky business. too little DRM and your stuff is simply shared illegally. too much DRM and people will either be put off completely or procure it illegally as well.

the only middle ground that seems to work on the PC is a retail release on disc, as Rockstar and Bethesda have done. BIS should do the same. they can still develop and release DLC, but after 6-12 months they should gather all their DLC and release it as a second expansion pack.

[whisper 0]

The way I read it, they simply stated that they can't anymore put up the same effort in patches as they have done before because of the sales figures of the core game.

No more patches with correctiion, features, added units and campaigns. If we want some of it, we'll have to pay (and we can guess it's the addon and campaign that will be paid DLC), the rest will still be free.

So people afraid of missing new features now are wrong, there won't be any change from current situation.

[esco7800 10]

I will buy DLC as long as it useful for me, personally I would like to see more stuff for orfor also independent factions, like planes, migs, tu's, units ext

[Big Dawg KS 6]

It doesnt matter if they can bring it out faster what matters is modders can do the same thing for free so who in their right minds would pay for DLC?

People who care enough to support BIS. Look, there are just some things that the community can't do. Nobody said that the DLC is going to be limited just to new factions or whatnot. From the sound of it, it very well may also include new features (sort of like mini-expansions). Anyway, there's still no reason to get worried at this point since BIS hasn't even told us exactly what they will release as DLC. The only thing we can do right now is trust that they know what they're doing. They usually do IMO.

Just look at how great ACE mod is.

Wtf does ACE have to do with anything?

developing expansion packs like this, IS THE WAY TO GO. keep it that way BIS and dont make us pay for a new tank

See, this tells me that you obviously didn't read their statement about DLC. Small content releases will still be available for free. You're not going to pay for just a new tank. The payed DLC is going to be something that BIS deems "significant". I trust these will definately be worth paying for... at least to some people.

And finally, I'd just like to recollect how the community responded to first hearing about BIS developing an expansion for ArmA 2... You wouldn't believe how many people said they weren't going to buy it and that it was a horrible idea. Now it seems everybody on the forums is having a hrad time just waiting for its release. Funny how opinions change over time when more information becomes available...

[wamingo 1]

In my humblest, least biased, most objective, opinion, I think they will change their minds about this.

Open question - What kinds of digital content is it that people will fork over cash for?

Will they pay for new units or vehicles? Engine enhancements? Maps? Missions or campaigns? Different colored helmets? What? What will people pay for?

In the context of arma, I think none of the above.

The types of digital content that people will pay for are:

-Things that make players more powerful - items, equipment, increased level cap.

-Things that can make players look unique.

-Story oriented character development.

-Continuation of cliffhangers.

I may be missing some, but I fear the list is short.

In other words it's often very socially oriented, or when the player is "attached" to a character or story element in some way.

Now, I realise there may have been some execeptions - like modern warfare apparently sold a lot of mp maps or something, but probably thanks to some peculiar, unreplicable reason.

So I'll contend that DLC is not suitable for every product line.

If BIS decides to pursue this anyway, then I sincerely hope to be proven wrong. I wish them all the best, of course.

[pauliesss 2]

and what 'quality DLC' have you paid for in the past? :confused:

None, I have never paid for DLC, but simply because it was for games I dont love so much as Arma. :)

And as someone said before, it has to be useful for me, but I am sure that BIS will bring only interesting DLC. :bounce3:

[Villain. 11]

This sounds like a good move for the company, and will keep the 'Armaversum' growing for us fans too.

There are players here from all over the world, i'd say alot of people would like to play as their own forces so there's alot of potential for unit based DLC.

Perhaps include a mission or two to go along so there's something to play straight away.

Maps/Islands would possibly be too time consuming, though of course it'd be great to get a new location to play in every now and then too.

Whatever they decide to do, i'll be looking forward to seeing the DLC on offer. :D

Edited June 11, 2010 by Nokturnal1ne
Good point Zipper5

[Zipper5 74]

I will say for those of you suggesting campaigns that decent, commercial-quality campaigns like the ones BIS make for their games do not get finished being made quickly. Even Gaia's EW campaign took him a pretty damn long time to finish and release, and that was only 3 (incredibly impressive) missions. Heck, even OA's campaign has taken this long to develop. If I recall correctly, they started working on it shortly after Arma 2's release.

I can also speak from personal experience that campaign making is a real bitch to finish. My campaign took me 6 months from conception to completion. Granted it was only me working on it, but I can't see that being cut down too much by having more people.

Anyways, the point I'm making is if you're looking for them to include an entire campaign or even a mini-campaign of commercial quality in their DLCs, don't expect them to be released quickly and subsequently one after the other. It's simply not realistic.

[Fred DM 0]

None, I have never paid for DLC, but simply because it was for games I dont love so much as Arma. :)

And as someone said before, it has to be useful for me, but I am sure that BIS will bring only interesting DLC. :bounce3:

then, in all honesty, how would you know what's quality DLC, which would be worth your money, and what's not, if you've never bought any? :confused:

The Episodes of Liberty City are quality DLC, yet i would be willing to bet that most people who bought it - at least on PC - bought the retail disc instead of the digital Games for Windows Live version. same with the Fallout 3 DLC, except that it is very easy to pirate, so most PC gamers probably didn't buy it at all.

releasing new content on a retail disc is still the way to go on PC. hell, most of the Flight Simulator and Train Simulator 'DLC' is available on discs, even if it only contains a single new aircraft or scenario.

[Daniel 0]

I'm kind of against small relatively cheap releases. It makes joint ops much more difficult. For example, say two European units want to co-op. At the moment, they can download each other's units for the cost of some harddisk space. That's not quite the same as saying "Oh, and for next weekend's joint op you'll all need to buy this".

I am all for buying big, paid for additions. Like a comprehensive British forces pack. Or a Coalition Air Power pack. Just as long as it's worth paying for.

I also don't like the term DLC. To me DLC is content that you can download. It doesn't really differentiate very well...

[MontyVCB 0]

I would pay for DLC, so long as I got value for money. Example being if BI decided to release the British Army as a DLC for in the region of £10 I would think twice unless the pack was a fairly comprehensive range of vehicles and units, with missions. Thats considering for your £30 you are getting 300+ units, missions etc with OA.

Too many developers indeed use DLC as a cash cow to milk as much as they can from medicore titles. UBIsoft being a good example. However I am all for it so long as its done properly, if BI do it right I can see it being quite popular.

[Fred DM 0]

I also don't like the term DLC. To me DLC is content that you can download. It doesn't really differentiate very well...

that's the point, though. it's not economically feasible for a developer as small as BIS to distribute small content packs through regular retail channels.

digital distribution is very attractive for smaller, independent and niche developers as it cuts out the retail factor.

the downsides are that the customer gets no physical goods in return for his money (no disc, manual), availability and payment methods are usually limited (even stuff on Steam or Steam itself isn't available everywhere) and DLC has to be protected somehow, or most people will just pirate it.

it's a wait-and-see situation right now, i agree, but the term 'DLC' always raises the alarm for me and is usually a bad sign, that's all. :(

[Mafia101 0]

I also don't like the term DLC. To me DLC is content that you can download. It doesn't really differentiate very well...

Yeah Indeed... DLC means more like some new weapons or mp maps or armors :D

I assume they could call them modules, like VBS, since it will add good amount of content and features, as BIS said in FAQ. Example British army or sth :)

[EricM 0]

digital distribution is very attractive for smaller, independent and niche developers as it cuts out the retail factor.

Exactly, I believe the whole DLC point is that BIS has been through hell to secure decent publishers since the codemasters split up, even for OA as it seems (new US and Euro distributors).

If you add to that that more and more PC players are using steam, going the DLC route would mean much easier and cheaper distribution.

They could bundle a few DLCs on a disc from time to time for a Gold, Platinium, Black edition...

[unknow_mario 10]

They could bundle a few DLCs on a disc from time to time for a Gold, Platinium, Black edition...

^this.

maybe when all DLCs are release on a singol dvd

[panda123 10]

Paying DLC ? They are crazy ? Improve Arma II before !!!

[whisper 0]

Paying DLC ? They are crazy ? Improve Arma II before !!!

This is what they try to do for free in parallel since years now. Where did they say they'd do any different?

[eJay 1]

I'll paid for DLC only in specific conditions:

1) DLC contain "nation-module" like Brits in VBS2 (units, vehicle, weapons)

2) DLC costs no more than 20% of full-game price

3) DLC is very polished, bug-free and it's not only OFP-retextured-addon

We must remember that ArmA isn't game with ranked servers like BC2, so DLC couldn't be required to play on every server (you can switch servers with loaded DLC ON/OFF), it's just another content pack.

But I must admit that even small things in some patches can be good. Apache addon was excellent, but this is huge thing ;)

[katua 10]

If they can create a new campaign every 4 months ( 3 DLC /year) adding some extra units or vehicles , and sometimes new chunks of terrain/settings here and there, i am all for it. It could be an interconnected campaign with its own storyline. In fact it could be like a "mmorpg" progressing the storyline, named characters, a global setting.

[pauliesss 2]

then, in all honesty, how would you know what's quality DLC, which would be worth your money, and what's not, if you've never bought any? :confused:

The Episodes of Liberty City are quality DLC, yet i would be willing to bet that most people who bought it - at least on PC - bought the retail disc instead of the digital Games for Windows Live version. same with the Fallout 3 DLC, except that it is very easy to pirate, so most PC gamers probably didn't buy it at all.

releasing new content on a retail disc is still the way to go on PC. hell, most of the Flight Simulator and Train Simulator 'DLC' is available on discs, even if it only contains a single new aircraft or scenario.

How can you compare other DLC with BIS DLC when you dont know what will BIS offer ? All I want to say is that first I will look on DLC, on its content and then I will decide if I will buy it or not.

As someonse said before, buy it or dont buy it, its simple as that.

[whisper 0]

As long as the important stuff they work on, like their hint on making a build-in addon management in-game, is added through free patches like it is today, I've zero problem with them proposing other type of content in a paying form

[Smurf 12]

Wanna see how they will distribute DLCs and avoid piracy. Steam or that other site (where you buy straight from devs, forgot the name) ?

And how minor communities, like here in Brazil where the game even has not been released and its pretty hard to get the game, will manage the DLCs. I mean, I as a huge fan of ArmA would buy it, but if the others don´t, what I would do? =\

[lwlooz 0]

Sad, very very sad.

If BIS ever did that they would have less dignity than homeless person having to do handjobs for booze. Not to mention the hypocrisy of it all.

Yet again I fail to understand how the same company that produced the excellent ingenious OFP can take crap decisions like this. Have all the good people left? Did Suma and Maruk blow their brains out or what?

Ah well , I suppose to an even more pointless new era of working over a decade on a game making it slightly more crap all the while. Must feel good.

[Fox '09 14]

there are enough units in OA to keep me happy for 6 months, and there is enough custom units out and coming to keep me happy forever. I'll pay for DLC if it's something i really want (like EOD stuff, ied bombs etc). BI's stuff is always quality, I'd pay a few bucks for it any day.

[pauliesss 2]

Wanna see how they will distribute DLCs and avoid piracy. Steam or that other site (where you buy straight from devs, forgot the name) ?

This can be a big problem(piracy), but anyway, you can download almost every game or movie or music from internet for free, so it will be on every each person if he decide to buy it and support the developers, or will download it only. But I am sure there is still enough people who would like to support BIS and get quality content from them.