space bar poll

[Zipper5 74]

To be honest, if someone is scanning a unit using the spacebar then chances are he's already seen the unit. It's not hard to tell friendly from enemy in Arma 2, especially if you just get a closer look at the unit. I don't think having the spacebar has such a profound effect on the gameplay.

[*LK1* 10]

To be honest, if someone is scanning a unit using the spacebar then chances are he's already seen the unit. It's not hard to tell friendly from enemy in Arma 2, especially if you just get a closer look at the unit. I don't think having the spacebar has such a profound effect on the gameplay.

to be honest is not truth. i have pwned thousands and thousands of people in arma and even now with my combination of tank and space bar :o

simply because you reduce the time that you need to look inside bushes with a simple mouse movement with the space bar activated..you'll move it from left to right even without zoom and even fast and if you see the marker becoming red you have spotted an enemy.dont ge me wrong im not trying to flamm.bad that thing has an important impact on the gameplay.

if i will find a youtube video about i'll post it.

Edited May 1, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[jw custom 56]

simple.if something has an huge impact on the gameplay ehre you have you line.

Just because it has a huge impact on gameplay for you and other people doesn't mean it has for everybody!

if something is just a features not avaible in RL but that makes the game more realistic in game,because there are of course differences from RL and game,

is ok.is something is just a little concession to the people which want this game easier well i dont agree.

If you want a simulator play VBS/JCove, ArmA 2 is a game with a taste of simulation/realism.

[instagoat 133]

The spacebar spotting is a very valuable tool, because only when you assign targets to AI using this, you know which unit they are actually going to attack. If you use the menu, you can´t tell which way they will run off.

The "see-everything-"glitch"" is, I think, an unintended consequence of the way this tool works. So instead of going "throw this out", I´d first like to hear a suggestion as to how I could still exactly tell my AI to target enemies, if it gets thrown out.

On top of that, I maintain that Arma 2 is a game, and features like this compensate for all the shortages of visual fidelity you have in real life. And if people want to use this feature, let them: it´s in the game, so its obviously to be used in such a manner, even if it wasn´t the primary mission of this tool when it was designed.

Cheers

Insta

---------- Post added at 12:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 PM ----------

What if the function was changed so that it only IDs targets that have already been identified or are within range i.e. within binocular range/visual range?

But a server side setting would make the most sense to me.

It already is this way. You can only "reveal" units with this feature if they already have been identified by your character. It also treats enemies as if you were an AI, ie, if the AI runs behind cover and stops there, its "ghost" will continue tracking from behind cover until you "realise" that they´re not actually there. Then the HUD will guess the position of the enemy AI.

It´s not like this feature is completely magic based. :P

[Zipper5 74]

The "see-everything-"glitch"" is, I think, an unintended consequence of the way this tool works. So instead of going "throw this out", I´d first like to hear a suggestion as to how I could still exactly tell my AI to target enemies, if it gets thrown out.

Very well said. I agree. I love the new HUD elements the entire feature brings. They've almost become second nature next to the actual keystrokes.

[NeMeSiS 11]

The "see-everything-"glitch"" is, I think, an unintended consequence of the way this tool works. So instead of going "throw this out", I´d first like to hear a suggestion as to how I could still exactly tell my AI to target enemies, if it gets thrown out.

Select the unit you want to order->Click on an enemy.

EDIT: Left click is engange, right click is targetnot anymore.

Edited May 1, 2010 by NeMeSiS

[{bdr}*nemesi* 22]

I opened a tread on that subject some moths ago on that subject

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=77965

so may vote is to remove the spacebar scanning feature, that feature was not present in arma1

We play in expert mode plus death messages and netstats disabled and with this settings the prob is somehow alleviated

[Bouben 3]

Just making it optional should do the trick, no? So I mean not forcing it on the last two difficulty settings, but optional anytime everywhere.

[*LK1* 10]

To be honest, if someone is scanning a unit using the spacebar then chances are he's already seen the unit.

mate.. surely is my bad english which makes for me impossible to explain what i think.

with the space bar activated you dont need to slowly scanorizing for enemies...

you just mvoe your mouse left or right,right on left, on that hill or on that bush and if there is an enemy you can see a red circular marker with a message,for example "grenatier 250 m" wrote on red,red color means is an enemy.

how can you guys tell me this thing has not an impact on the gameplay?

It already is this way. You can only "reveal" units with this feature if they already have been identified by your character. It also treats enemies as if you were an AI, ie, if the AI runs behind cover and stops there, its "ghost" will continue tracking from behind cover until you "realise" that they´re not actually there. Then the HUD will guess the position of the enemy AI.

It´s not like this feature is completely magic based. :P

nope,is like a magical feature,since you dont need to see the enemy to spot it by using the space bar :rolleyes::rolleyes:

The "see-everything-"glitch"" is, I think, an unintended consequence of the way this tool works. So instead of going "throw this out", I´d first like to hear a suggestion as to how I could still exactly tell my AI to target enemies, if it gets thrown out.

and this is truth,well said.my personal suggestion could be to put a marker on the head of a spotted enemy,based on numbers.so if you want to tell at your AI to engage that enemy you simply press 2 or 3 keys to give the order.

for example 0 to open the menu,5 or whatever to select the engage target menu,3 to engage the third enemy spotted by your AI.

p.s. seems so strange people want to play arma 2 cuz is realistic but they accept such arcade features..bah :rolleyes:

Edited May 1, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[maddogx 13]

my personal suggestion could be to put a marker on the head of a spotted enemy,based on numbers.so if you want to tell at your AI to engage that enemy you simply press 2 or 3 keys to give the order.

That would make it even worse. Instead of having to highlight an enemy with the spacebar in order to locate it, enemies would always be highlighted by the numbers hovering over their heads. The spacebar itself isn't the core of the problem here, it's the fact that the player character is considered to have knowledge about enemies even though the player himself can't actually see them. That's what gives the spacebar its "scanning power".

I dislike the spacebar scanning as much as you do, but replacing it isn't going to be as easy as you think. :)

p.s. seems so strange people want to play arma 2 cuz is realistic but they accept such arcade features..bah :rolleyes:

Many people don't, which is why it is disabled by many missions and mods. Get off your high horse, mate.

[nkenny 1057]

Spacebar scanning only works with enemies that are 'detected' by either yourself or your group.

Thats right. If you manage to spacebar scan something it means either yourself or someone in your group IF THEY HAD(or are) AI would have been able to detect.

Spacebar scanning can be an annoying immersion breaker -- but is it really that unbalanced? On easier game modes you can access you map to see the approximate position of any contact your group has detected. As a group leader you can press [2] to gain access to the 'target' menu which again displays detected contacts with a rudimentary 'by the clock' directions.

--

The real solution would be to only make it possible to identify FRIENDLY/green troops with the command menu.

[*LK1* 10]

Spacebar scanning only works with enemies that are 'detected' by either yourself or your group.

is not correct,space bar is working even with undetected enemies.pretty much like a "newbie tool"

to find enemies.i will ask a friend to make a video to clarify this point.and if you are not so sure,untill the video is not ready,you can try on the editor.

Many people don't, which is why it is disabled by many missions and mods.Get off your high horse, mate.

sorry but im a bit frustrated since i would to see this game more loyal to his nature.

Edited May 1, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[maddogx 13]

space bar is working even with undetected enemies.pretty much like a "newbie tool"

to find enemies.

That's exactly what I did, and it turns out you're wrong. I'm uploading a video to YouTube right now.

Finding an enemy with a spacebar scan really does depend on whether your avatar "knows about" him. That doesn't necessarily mean that you yourself are aware of his presence, so the spacebar scan can show you the possible location of an enemy you didn't notice. The real problem here is that the character you are controlling "knows" more about his environment than you do. He may have caught a glimpse of an enemy soldier concealing himself behind a tree while you were watching a different part of the screen. At that moment, your avatar acquired some information that you missed. The spacebar scan merely tells you what your avatar knows (or thinks he knows) about his environment, which is usually more than you yourself know. :)

[jw custom 56]

which is usually more than you yourself know. :)

Just like the AI, so let's call it even :p

[maddogx 13]

Just like the AI, so let's call it even :p

Exactly like the AI in fact, which - in my opinion - is the real problem here. I think visual detection is too accurate in some situations.

Anyway, here's the video I made. It's still processing, so it may be crappy quality for now:

U80rPBvlnR8

[*LK1* 10]

That's exactly what I did, and it turns out you're wrong. I'm uploading a video to YouTube right now.

Finding an enemy with a spacebar scan really does depend on whether your avatar "knows about" him. That doesn't necessarily mean that you yourself are aware of his presence, so the spacebar scan can show you the possible location of an enemy you didn't notice. The real problem here is that the character you are controlling "knows" more about his environment than you do. He may have caught a glimpse of an enemy soldier concealing himself behind a tree while you were watching a different part of the screen. At that moment, your avatar acquired some information that you missed. The spacebar scan merely tells you what your avatar knows (or thinks he knows) about his environment, which is usually more than you yourself know.

well then,if is it truth and i dont think so,we have another problem.my avatar knows much more than me.another nice realistic feature for a simulative game :rolleyes:.

is like we have super robots in our control and not just a puppet.funny isn't it?

dude i'm playing this game since ofp times and i can tell you the space bar function is not changed at all.is changed just the difficulty mode..

in expert mode for example you cant spot enemies by using the space bar function but it stays usable as range finder.but with the other different difficulty mode,even for veteran mode which should be difficult.,you can spot enemies with the space bar.indipendently from what youknow or you dont know about the enemy.

if you point your crosshair at 1300 m at a bush and inside it there is a sniper

now you know his position.even if you dont have look with your scope/binocular at that bush or even if the sniper has not farted and your super robot avatar has established the enemy position by using that sound.you have discovered his position through the space bar indipendently from what you know.

Edited May 1, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[Thirdup 0]

As with most threads like this:

More options = GOOD for more play styles

Trying to force everyone else to play the way I feel is more realistic = BAD

I don't have a horse in this particular race, but anytime someone suggests removing features from everyone in the name of realism it's something I'm opposed to it.

Optionally (as a server rule), sure I'd support changes like this. More options is always a good thing.

If you really want total realism, keep a loaded 45 next to the monitor. When you get shot in-game, you'll know what must be done. Just don't expect everyone else to share your level of enthusiasm. ;)

[*LK1* 10]

U80rPBvlnR8

dude as you can see from that video(the difficulty mode is expert of course)if you accidentally move the scope on the nemy now you can spot it.well this is not a problem if the enemy is close to your position cuz you can see it without the space bar.but if that guys was 800m from your position inside a bush and you press the space bar you could know his position without seeing it.

that's the problem.

and.another thing:why they dont add a laser range finder in game instead of the space bar to see enemy positions?

---------- Post added at 05:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:49 PM ----------

As with most threads like this:

More options = GOOD for more play styles

Trying to force everyone else to play the way I feel is more realistic = BAD

I don't have a horse in this particular race, but anytime someone suggests removing features from everyone in the name of realism it's something I'm opposed to it.

Optionally (as a server rule), sure I'd support changes like this. More options is always a good thing.

If you really want total realism, keep a loaded 45 next to the monitor. When you get shot in-game, you'll know what must be done. Just don't expect everyone else to share your level of enthusiasm. ;)

i can understand your point.but even if we remove this arcade feature ian realistic game people will still play arma 2...

Edited May 1, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[maddogx 13]

well then,if is it truth and i dont think so,we have another problem.my avatar knows much more than me.another nice realistic feature for a simulative game :rolleyes:. is like we have super robots in our control and not just a puppet.funny isn't it?

How exactly is the game supposed to know what you spotted and what you missed? I agree that the visual spotting algorithm often seems to be too accurate, so your avatar will sometimes spot things that you can't have seen. This is definitely a problem. But even if they made the visual detection algorithm as realistic as possible, they could never account for the fact that the player might not always be paying attention.

Imagine the following situation: you are hiding out underneath a tree, looking at the horizon through binoculars. You can't see anything. Then you briefly take your eyes off the screen because someone is talking to you, or whatever. While you aren't looking, an enemy in your line of sight moves out of cover from behind a rock and goes behind a bush. You didn't see him, but your avatar obviously did. What now? The game must reasonably expect you to know about the guy, because he was clearly visible on screen. It's impossible to tell whether you were paying attention. Therefore, this problem will never be 100% fixed.

dude i'm playing this game since ofp times and i can tell you the space bar function is not changed at all.is changed just the difficulty mode..

The spacebar command interface was introduced in Arma2. It didn't exist back in the OFP days. What the hell are you talking about?

in expert mode for example you cant spot enemies by using the space bar function but it stays usable as range finder.but with the other different difficulty mode,even for veteran mode which should be difficult.,you can spot enemies with the space bar.indipendently from what youknow or you dont know about the enemy.

if you point your crosshair at 1300 m at a bush and inside it there is a sniper

now you know his position.even if you dont have look with your scope/binocular at that bush or even if the sniper has not farted and your super robot avatar has established the enemy position by using that sound.you have discovered his position through the space bar indipendently from what you know.

I just tested this again in recruit mode. Told an enemy soldier to hide behind a bush and then tried to find him using the spacebar scan. I could even see him behind the bush through binoculars (only because I knew where he would be) but the spacebar scan didn't detect him. I can only repeat: the spacebar scanning only works when your avatar knows about the targets.

dude as you can see from that video(difficulty mode?can you upload it a new 1 with the difficulty mode showed)if you accidentally move the scope on the nemy now you can spot it.well this is not a problem if the enemy is close to your position but.if that guys was 800m from your position inside a bush and you press the space bar you could know his position without seeing it.

that's the problem.dont you?

Wrong again. here's a video of what I told you about above:

x6NrmKjUt1Q

Like I said, this is recruit mode. Note how the spacebar interface does not find the enemy, even though he is partially visible. Satisfied?

Edited May 1, 2010 by MadDogX

[*LK1* 10]

How exactly is the game supposed to know what you spotted and what you missed? I agree that the visual spotting algorithm often seems to be too accurate, so your avatar will sometimes spot things that you can't have seen. This is definitely a problem. But even if they made the visual detection algorithm as realistic as possible, they could never account for the fact that the player might not always be paying attention.

omg..since is not possible to establish how the game can understand what you have missed and what you have seen that why i dont like this space bar!

The spacebar command interface was introduced in Arma2. It didn't exist back in the OFP days. What the hell are you talking about?

no,even in arma 1 there was the space bar option.

I just tested this again in recruit mode. Told an enemy soldier to hide behind a bush and then tried to find him using the spacebar scan. I could even see him behind the bush through binoculars (only because I knew where he would be) but the spacebar scan didn't detect him. I can only repeat: the spacebar scanning only works when your avatar knows about the targets.

dude :rolleyes: be honest... in recruit and regular mode you can spot enemies that still undetected.

the difference in expert mode is that you can see enemies that you have detected before but the ragen finder function stays activated.give me some hours and i will upload a video if you dont believe me.

but ive also explained that point im not changing what ive said

i want to specify in expert m. you can't spot enemies with space bar but the range finder option stays.at least,to be coherent with the

name of the last difficulty mode,could be correct to remove that option in expert mode so we could have a realistic way to play it.

Edited May 1, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[maddogx 13]

dude :rolleyes: be honest... in recruit and regular mode you can spot enemies that still undetected.

Still wrong. Look at the update to my post above. Recruit mode, undetected enemy behind bush, not visible to the spacebar scan - even through binoculars.

[*LK1* 10]

Still wrong. Look at the update to my post above. Recruit mode, undetected enemy behind bush, not visible to the spacebar scan - even through binoculars.

i saw,there is just a little problem,you dont show the difficulty mode that you are using :rolleyes:.

Edited May 1, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[maddogx 13]

i saw,there is just a little problem,you dont show the difficulty mode that you are using :rolleyes:.

Oh yes, now you've caught me. I'm lying to you, just for the heck of it. :rolleyes:

[jw custom 56]

Oh yes, now you've caught me. I'm lying to you, just for the heck of it. :rolleyes:

LOL you better give up, you'll have to video document EVERYTHING atleast twice else your a big fat lier :p

[*LK1* 10]

Oh yes, now you've caught me. I'm lying to you, just for the heck of it. :rolleyes:

ah i'm not saying you are lying just for the heck of it,maybe you have uploaded

your video without seeing which level of difficulty mode you have set.

if you want mate can you upload 2 videos untill i dont upload mine videos?

1 with the easy difficulty mode and the second with expert mode.