ugly defacing of Polish victims in Belgian press

[celery 8]

Those who had said that it's just freedom of speech, think about one thing: what would be your reaction, when your died relatives or friends will be the subject of the same so called funny cartoon?

Where are you getting at? That we would want freedom of speech abolished if something offended us?

[echo1 0]

There is mostly no hatred in jokes, as you can talk jokes about Jews without hate towards them. Friend of mine dated black French girl. They use to mock each other all the time. He calls her a monkey and she calls him a chicken, white boy and they where always sharing racist jokes. But there is nothing more than hatred in “this who made this picture should be dead and his family should sufferâ€. And I like how you compare tragic accident in which 100 people died to Nazi death camps, or slaughtering of 200 children...

This. This is the age of 4chan... you either grow a thick neck, or pull the ethernet cable out of the back of your computer asap...

[cole 0]

This. This is the age of 4chan... you either grow a thick neck, or pull the ethernet cable out of the back of your computer asap...

I couldn't grow the balls to mention that over here, so yeah, thanks.

/thread

[InqWiper 0]

Our liberty ends where the liberty of others begins.

Wow, is that a quote from Hitler ? :p

[cole 0]

Wow, is that a quote from Hitler ? :p

What? You're kidding. Please, tell me you're kidding.

[spooky lynx 73]

Where are you getting at? That we would want freedom of speech abolished if something offended us?

Freedom isn't equal to anarchy. And, as I see, freedom of speech in someone's opinion is ability to say everything you want.

[DaVca 0]

Wow, is that a quote from Hitler ? :p

That’s democracy in its finest. You have as many rights as you can have without taking rights from others (and without others taking your rights). In totalitarianism only small portion of people have granted wide selection of rights and they mostly intervene with rights of others.

[InqWiper 0]

What? You're kidding. Please, tell me you're kidding.

Well, the way he said it it sounds like if you give other people liberty you yourself get less liberty so you should not allow others any liberty. And no, I did not seriously thin it was a quote from Hitler, I was making a point.

[celery 8]

Freedom isn't equal to anarchy. And, as I see, freedom of speech in someone's opinion is ability to say everything you want.

This is freedom of speech:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

It means that you can without fear of prosecution say or publish anything that doesn't violate the rights of other people. It also means (especially concerning freedom of press) that your publications do not have to go through an official censor, and it's your job to make sure there's nothing unlawful in it. To my knowledge people don't have the right not to get offended because that would mean we'd have to ban everything.

Going back to your original question: no, I wouldn't demand the abolition of freedom of speech like vilas does. In fact I wouldn't make a thread in here at all because it has no purpose.

[InqWiper 0]

This is freedom of speech:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

It means that you can without fear of prosecution say or publish anything that doesn't violate the rights of other people. It also means (especially concerning freedom of press) that your publications do not have to go through an official censor, and it's your job to make sure there's nothing unlawful in it. To my knowledge people don't have the right not to get offended because that would mean we'd have to ban everything.

Going back to your original question: no, I wouldn't demand the abolition of freedom of speech like vilas does. In fact I wouldn't make a thread in here at all because it has no purpose.

Whats the purpose of posting in a thread with no purpose?

I dont think we should ban everything that offends people but a line has to be drawn somewhere about what is acceptable and what is not. The line is drawn differently in different places and obviously we disagree about where it should be drawn. I think freedom of speech and freedom of press is more about your right to express your opinion and not about your right to disrespect others in any way you want. I think newspapers should be held to a higher standard than a normal person. If someone says all black people are rapists then they are an idiot, but if a newspaper says it they should get some serious heat.

Edited April 15, 2010 by InqWiper

[spooky lynx 73]

In my opinion, which differs from what is discribed in wiki, freedom of speech also should include some kind of politeness.

I wouldn't make a thread in here at all because it has no purpose.

You wouldn't, but Vilas thinks it has purpose. It's his freedom of speech.

[vilas 477]

If someone says all black people are rapists then they are an idiot, but if a newspaper says it they should get some serious heat.

cause press is responsible on people view

if press would be informing on and on "nation X murdered nation Y",than people would hate X, while in fact "nation ABC murdered nation Y"

press is more responsible than individual, press is massive voice, not voice of single person

and what people think about such freedom as i prescribed

website that shows victims of criminals and smiling at them ?

i seen picture of cartoon of sexual intercourse between our religion symbol and some gays looking like from comedy (leather cap, leather trousers)

using Jesus in such think is very very very ... bad even in my atheist's eyes

using symbol of Christianity in such manner is for me far far enough than "right for freedom"

just like victims who can't defend themselves (killed people) photos shown with jokes and internet maniacs giving scores to better corpses :(

it is freedom ??

or people from west are so rotten morally that they not see problem in this ?

raped and murdered girl body and "it was not her day"

man driven over by truck and "where is my leg ?"

imagine that your friend/mom/dad/girl died in truck accident as pedestrian and some months ago her photo is reason for joke for internet morons, this is freedom too ?

Edited April 15, 2010 by vilas

[Tonci87 163]

Vilas i understand you are a Patriot, so am I. But trust me, you are really overreacting. Try to sleep one Night over it and rethink the whole stuff tomorrow.

[JdB 151]

Unless Freedom of Speech is abused to incite violence, it is acceptable to say anything you want no matter how stupid, insensitive, rude or besides the truth it is. The only people that can judge whether or not something is acceptable or illegal is a court of law, not an angry mob, political party, censor or dictator. If people are upset by this cartoon, they should sue the newspaper.

Freedom of Speech cuts both ways.

[dm 9]

in as i remember 2007 air show 2 Belarussian pilots couldn't hold SU27 and to last second steered to empty field to not kill people on airshow

they saved hundreds of watching people

can you imagine laughing at them as freedom of speech ?

Actually I can.

The following image is often posted along with comments like "they didnt install that rocket chair for nothing"

Its part and parcel of life. As a pilot myself [sadly nothing quite as fancy as fast jets, but still] I can appreciate the humour. People die all the time. If you get wound up and stressed out by it, you're not going to live very long yourself.

[InqWiper 0]

People die all the time. If you get wound up and stressed out by it, you're not going to live very long yourself.

Noone is asking you to mourn every death but is it too much to ask for to show a little respect?

[SWT_Janowich 10]

As a pilot myself [sadly nothing quite as fancy as fast jets, but still] I can appreciate the humour.

What do you fly, paper planes?

[vilas 477]

well , i don't find this quoted photo funy in any way

[dm 9]

to show a little respect?

Thats an interesting social construct actually (and before everyone gets all "I should die and my family suffer like the 96 other families" - one I agree with and follow, but for the sake of discussion: ) I'm fairly sure the dead couldn't care one way or another if we respect them or not, after all, they are dead. The whole "respect the dead" thing is brought around by peoples need to feel like they mean something. The same way you should "respect your elders" and so on.

I guess my points are:

1. what makes these 96 people more special than the ~4000 people killed daily in road accidents around the globe? Or the ~160000 who die of other causes daily.

2. why should a cartoonist, whos job it is to find humour (and evidently satire) in daily events be shot for doing his job? Political cartoons are meant to be edgy. Thats kinda their point...

---------- Post added at 22:16 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------

What do you fly, paper planes?

For the record, I have stick time in: Grob G115E, Grob G109B, SA Bulldog, Piper Archer and Piper Warrior.

Smartass. :j:

[stgn 39]

@Vilas

Your raped girl analog is not the same as this picture by any means. Your making her the joke, the picture describes the polish political system's current state caused by the plane crash its not the people its the polish nations bureaucracy, but I guess you would take that personally offensive. I can't see how the picture makes the people the joke, the only thing related to them is their titles an impersonal time limited thing, not these peoples person, opinions or deeds. Same holds true for the rest your analogs you seem to wanna make this an attack on their persons which it is not. Had it been directed at the president ex. It could have read something like "Kaczyński, president for life!" making his death the joke.

@JdB

They should not sue they should stop buying it if they get upset by it.

STGN

[vilas 477]

if you don;t understand situation about national tragedy than you are ***

doing job? doing job by defacing other nation, its symbols, its victims ??? really west is rotten morally if not see this as big serious problem

They should not sue they should stop buying it if they get upset by it.

gazette if from other country than my country , so we as Poles are upset and gazete is in Belgium

we were offended in other country by other country gazette

Edited April 15, 2010 by vilas

[dm 9]

if you don;t understand situation about national tragedy than you are ***

I'm well aware of just how serious the loss was to Polish government and how utterly RETARDED it was that they were all in the same plane to start with. (Ok, ok, so flying is still the safest form of transport, but still, eggs in one basket)

Again, just because these people were in the government, they are more important than everyone else because?

And yes, I'm fairly sure Poland has cartoonists which do just the same thing. I'm pretty sure you will have laughed at something that someone, somewhere, finds offensive. Will you shoot that cartoonist, or yourself because of it?

[SWT_Janowich 10]

Its nonsense, the whole thread

For the record, I have stick time in: Grob G115E, Grob G109B, SA Bulldog, Piper Archer and Piper Warrior.

And I thought you'd fly commercial airliners or something that is actually

something else than a bicycle on wings.

[dm 9]

And I thought you'd fly commercial airliners or something that is actually something

Commercial airliners cant go upside down, or pull 5+G :cool:

(Yes yes, I know about the 707 that was rolled, but I mean lots and [almost] whenever you want to)

[adumb 0]

Its nonsense, the whole thread

And I thought you'd fly commercial airliners or something that is actually

something else than a bicycle on wings.

Why are you mad tho? :eek: