After 1 week of ArmaII...

[Siddhi 10]

...and obviously the game is trully awesome.

A couple of observations however from someone with a bit of experience, not only with OFP but the real deal..

1. the "trees as thick as matchsticks" is a bit irritating from a RL PoV. A LAV cannot go cruising trhough a forest, it can'T even do that with an orchard of peach trees. Even tanks can'T do that, at least not for very far and not with serious risk of throwing a track or getting "stumped" (hanging off a tree stump and losing traction). I agree it is much more fun cruising through the bushes, but a "middle way" would somehow be nice here...

2. in the manhatten mission the 81mm is really, really overpowered. I have never seen 155mm in action, but that could be what it looks like (minus the missing craters). 81mm and 107mm mortors are a lot more "tame" then that, certainly does not knock trees over or destroy APCs (at least easily).

3. at the same time, tank armour is underpowered - quite a lot. Even half-a-dozen Tandem HEAD RPGs should not be too much of a problem for a T-90. in the game i flank.shot a T-90 with an RPG from close range and caused critical damage, with a dead driver and the crew bailing. I can leave with a mission-kill on a T-90 after a Metis ATGM shot, but not a RPG pls...

4. having achieved a MK on the T-90 i decided i whant a total kill, so I shot the thing again, expecting to have to relaod after the blast takes me out. well, i started a little campfire, and the secondary explosions (of a T-90) happened only about 4m away, and that was it. Guys i totally understand downplaying explosions for the sake of RL but it can be exagerated. If a tank ammo goes (and you don'T have blow-out pannels like the M1A1) you better be more then a couple of meters away. This happens a coupl of times btw. Interestingly IMPO however this works for the BMP perfectly....I have hesitated a couple of times after having hit a bmp waiting for the secondaries, as you would in RL.

5. finally, quality of enemy: in OFP nothing was worse then being taken out by a resistance farmer with an ak.47 at 500m with a headshot, who has never heard of "supression" and couldn't care less. This hays been much improved. Also, sometimes enemy reactions seem very authentic..it does take the odd chap (russians, usually) a couple of moments to see you as well. Then however their marskmanship is pretty good... REALLY good. the resistance can even be better, i am still getting taken out at 200m by a farmer with an Ak-47 with his first couple of shots.

This is really an issue guys. Personally I used to shoot my RL assault rifle not too disimilar to how I shoot in the game - not great shakes by any means, but I get them down("them" in RL being moving target range). The enemy always seems to be nearly as good as I am - in some circumstances better (playing at "regular") However a crack US soldier (I am not an American btw) I shouldn't be slightly better, he should be MUCH better shot. I mean like 3-4 times better probability of kill compared to a farmer with an ak (who can be good, I know), and 2-3 as good as the russian regular army. Basically in RL you would expect someone shooting a "reaction shot" (i.e. unaimed) at 50m to spend a couple of bursty or half a mag, and to miss most shots. In the game on aveage you are dead by the third shot of the enemy. I have head stories from african peackeeepign opperations with someone firing a full AK mag at a near-stationary target not more then 20m away and missing with every shot. Seriously give the yanks their due ... marksmenship they know! A lot better then an old REMF like me :)

Great game of course...however I think I am going to have to take it to ACE...

Siddhi

Edited March 22, 2010 by Siddhi

[Aeneas2020 10]

I think you might get some ruskies pretty annoyed at you with your "A us solider should be 2-3 times better at shooting than a russian thing"....but regardless you may also want to try the zues ai mod. And there are a couple of dispersion mods out there as well that will help with the insta kill issue....main thing is learning the game however. I am generally a coward. I hug cover and stay behind my team mates. I usually play as a medic as i find it thrilling to run to downed friends and patch them up while popping up a couple of shots. I'm not really much of a front line fighter but I find i tend to die seldom and when i do its because i do something stupid like dash into an open street to drag a buddy out before checking the area or waiting for covering fire.

[Laqueesha 474]

I think you might get some ruskies pretty annoyed at you with your "A us solider should be 2-3 times better at shooting than a russian thing".

Well, not as annoyed at how the Western media in general- not just the United States, portrays the Russians.

[Guest]

I think he means a US soldier should shoot better than some weakly trained russian insurgent, rather than a fully trained Russian Soldier.

[Steakslim 1]

I'd say go with your plan to take it to ACE. Also if you think some the AI shoot too well, try running GL4 and Zeus together. It'll take you back to your childhood where you'll cry for your mommy.

[Aeneas2020 10]

Well, not as annoyed at how the Western media in general- not just the United States, portrays the Russians.

in soviet russia gun shoots u

[froggyluv 2133]

Yep, GL4 is the way to go if you really want to differentiate skills of the different types of troops.

Either by Rank or Soldier Class you can adjust the following variables:

Aiming Accuracy

Aiming Shake

Aiming Speed

Endurance

Spot Distance

Courage

Reload Speed

Commanding

[JdB 151]

I think you might get some ruskies pretty annoyed at you with your "A us solider should be 2-3 times better at shooting than a russian thing"

He means Force Recon vs the average Russian Federation infantryman.

[Laqueesha 474]

in soviet russia gun shoots u

Beat me to it. :D

[Aeneas2020 10]

He means Force Recon vs the average Russian Federation infantryman.

don't get me wrong i wasn't critising him...i was just making him aware that he will likely get flamed at some point for saying it. :) thats why i then went on to provide some mods that might help him out.

[Wolfrug 0]

Regarding #1 and #2:

What I heard a forest is nothing much more than an open field with a couple of matchsticks in it for the average 60+ ton tank, although I might be wrong there. What they can't do is, I hear, shoot, since they need to turn their turrets backwards as not to ram THEM into trees constantly. I'm sure there's an issue of getting stuck in the terrain and particularly heavy trees coming in the way, but I dunno - they're pretty bad-assed steel beasts (and in Chernarus, the forests unfortunately generally have even better terrain than the fields when it comes to tanks - no stone walls and the like). And I believe the LAV-25 does get 'stopped' by trees at lower speeds at least, which makes driving through the forest a tiresome, if not impossible matter.

As to the 81mm, they're not to be underestimated. Direct hits on top of an armored target such as an old BMP can, afaik, disable and destroy it (the top being the weakest point in such a vehicle). Shrapnel damage is liable to kill everything not in a foxhole (of which there are none in Arma 2, once again a weakness of the simulation, not the shells), and as to trees - well, unfortunately the damage model in Arma 2 does not allow for "decapitated" trees and the like, but generally speaking a direct hit from an 81mm against a tree will not see the tree come out the victor.

But anyway. Nice to see you're liking the game!

Regards,

Wolfrug

[maturin 12]

Even trucks and humvees can pulverize pretty significant trees without damage in the game.

Tanks should not be able to casually shoulder aside a three-foot thick oak tree with huge roots. That has got to be the equivalent of a similar amount of reinforced concrete. Other times, however, hitting a signpost will halve your speed.

[Bulldogs 10]

Not to drag it too off topic but a couple of the comments in this thread reminded me of Ultimate warrior (I think that was the name of the show), the had an episode of Russian Spetsnatz Vs US SpecOps (Green Beret) and the Spetsnatz won, to which they had to get the specialists back and discuss why it happened because they were flooded with hate mail about how many people believed there was no way a US soldier could be beaten by a Spetsnatz.

In retain the US soldier had to explain that the stats were correct, to which he blurred it a little and gave every excuse he could think of as to why the US didn't win, but admitted that people underestimate the Spetsnatz as they're one of the best forces in the world.

One point they did bring up though is that it was a very broad thing, being that Green Beret is a section of the US special forces and the Spetsnaz is the Russian spec ops as a whole, but they had to do it that way because people get confused by the different Spetsnaz sections due to them not being hollywood sold.

Anyways, back to your viewing...

[Whoatherefatty 10]

I haven't seen the show but it sounds like they maybe compared stats of the weapons and compared training. In a real battle or even war games anything can happen. It would likely come down to the better commander. Not just defending the US here. On paper you'd think the insurgency in Iraq would be a joke against the coalition forces however at times the insurgency was extremly effective.

[maturin 12]

Not to drag it too off topic but a couple of the comments in this thread reminded me of Ultimate warrior (I think that was the name of the show), the had an episode of Russian Spetsnatz Vs US SpecOps (Green Beret) and the Spetsnatz won, to which they had to get the specialists back and discuss why it happened because they were flooded with hate mail about how many people believed there was no way a US soldier could be beaten by a Spetsnatz.

In retain the US soldier had to explain that the stats were correct, to which he blurred it a little and gave every excuse he could think of as to why the US didn't win, but admitted that people underestimate the Spetsnatz as they're one of the best forces in the world.

One point they did bring up though is that it was a very broad thing, being that Green Beret is a section of the US special forces and the Spetsnaz is the Russian spec ops as a whole, but they had to do it that way because people get confused by the different Spetsnaz sections due to them not being hollywood sold.

Anyways, back to your viewing...

I don't think it's very controversial to call the Russian military a diamond-tipped wooden spear. A large, second-tier military led by a world class group of elites.

[Bulldogs 10]

I should add that the show isn't exactly the best judgement of anything. It's a fun show but it only takes into account the factors that it wants to take into account. So it's not likely it's an accurate scale of realism, I was more concerned about the flood of responses with complete disbelief that America weren't number 1 at everything.

Anyways, as I said, derailing the thread a bit too much. Back to word about my... umm.. about Arma 2's awesomeness.

[maturin 12]

I should add that the show isn't exactly the best judgement of anything. It's a fun show but it only takes into account the factors that it wants to take into account. So it's not likely it's an accurate scale of realism, I was more concerned about the flood of responses with complete disbelief that America weren't number 1 at everything.

Anyways, as I said, derailing the thread a bit too much. Back to word about my... umm.. about Arma 2's awesomeness.

As I recall, they judged a Viking longsword (aka sharpened ploughshare) better than a Japanese naginata because of the calculated force in psi or some such.

[metsapeikkoo 10]

As I recall, they judged a Viking longsword (aka sharpened ploughshare) better than a Japanese naginata because of the calculated force in psi or some such.

Longsword is better than jap naginata.

[becubed 24]

a Viking longsword (aka sharpened ploughshare)

If that is what you think you probably need to do more research.

[Siddhi 10]

mostly interesting comments, but before we go to ultimate solider :

- as someone from an european draft army i can say with no insult to russians that the marksmanship difference between a russian draftee and US best-of-the-best-of-the-best is very high. i am not talking about SPETZNAZ. in a number of armies i have delth with it is in article of faith that the *only* thing the US military does very well (go on flame me for it Americans) is marksmanship - what they are shooting at not being the issue here, the fact is that they tend to hit it....this is especially valid for moving targets and FUBA,which are very expensive to train for and where "Reacton shots" have to practiced dozens of times to get somewhat right...something few armies do with "normal" troops btw.

btw, another issue that irritates me that should have been fixed: firing when moving. old soviet motorized infantry assault tactics were based (actually even timed) around the charge with full auto fire from hip. Obviously they do not hit much, btu great for suppression.

- i am not a tread head but i have seen leopard 2's stuck in a forest before. as said is not impossible to drive through a LIGHT wood forrest - just very difficult and very risky (getting stumped, throwing tracks, etc.). for wheeled APCs it is completly impossible. You can't take a 20degree incline on wet wood with wheels - you will just slide off.

- on 81mm motors: a direct hit on a BMP might take one out, but that is a big might. i don't even know how a mortar shell can "direct hit" a tree - the branches will most set the fuses off anyway. also for all of you who think trees offer cover for artillery - BS. every infantryman knowns that being in a woods under arty fire is hell - the woods tends to magnify their effects (splinters). they protect against observation however which is the point. in any case the explosions and the blast ranges in Arma2 for the arty is just way off. it does not look like 81mm, it looks nearly like 120mm IMO. i am sure youtube can offer some videos for those need evidence.

thanks for the suggestions on the mods, i will have a go once i get around to finishing the campaign. kind of irritated that everyone is giving me stick for taking away the RPG from the priest. i mean, does anyone think in RL any soldier would have acted differently? what, disobey orders - AND leave weapons in the hands of potential terrorists who can use them to knock out your vehicles? not really.

the comment btw of Russian army being "diamond-headed wooden spear" is a good one IMO. and yes...the game is trully awesome...but then again either we want a military simulator or a game, and sometimes i get confused....

Edited March 23, 2010 by Siddhi

[eggbeast 3673]

anyone thinking the russians are weak should try firing at a wing of 3 frogfoots...

[Aeneas2020 10]

oh dear i feel this topic might be getting derailed a little.

[Siddhi 10]

oh dear i feel this topic might be getting derailed a little.

Aeneas are you from from St. helens?

PS: hot damn i just saw GL4 video and man does it do it for me..http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=8848

Edited March 24, 2010 by Siddhi