Drongo's Air Support

[Drongo69 117]

I was having the same problem on and off, but couldn't find a solid reason. I updated the first post with a hotfix that changes the spawning a little bit. Hopefully it will help.

[vektorboson 8]

@Vektorbosen: I wonder if maybe the dialog idc I was using before was conflicting with a UA idc? At any rate, I have changed the dialog idc this time (to 3333 if that helps searching). Previously the CTD happened when I tried to use UA and DAS in an MP mission together.

I have taken a look, and there is nothing in your scripts that indicate there could be a conflict.

It is OK that you changed the idc, but actually it shouldn't differ. Unless there are COC scripts constantly running that check for the presence of a certain idc.

Now, there is much more information required: Did you run any mod like WGL? When exactly did the CTD happen? When you called the COC UA-dialog? When you called your DAS-dialog?

The other question is: Is the CTD it reproducible? Or was it simply a one shot affair, which means it could just have been a random error?

[wuschel 10]

Hello Drongo,

a very nice piece of work! I like the feeling You get when the CAS aircraft approaches and the low altitude bombing run.

My only critical points as of now are these:

a) The orange smoke pops up magically near the marked position. This not only destroys immersion, but is also treacherous when playing in multiplayer.

b) I suffered from a performance hit when loading the mission and when the CAS Air support was approaching (testing version: 21 beta). Not sure if everyone can reproduce this. I hope there is still some room for optimization here, since the script is perfect to be used in heavily scripted missions.

Cheers,

wuschel

[vektorboson 8]

a) The orange smoke pops up magically near the marked position. This not only destroys immersion, but is also treacherous when playing in multiplayer.

My opinion on this is,

1. that it should be white smoke, not red smoke. As I understand, red smoke is used for "hot" landing zones. White smoke is used for marking ground targets for CAS.

2. right now the smoke is spawned immediately after calling for CAS. Therefore it disappears before the aircraft is over the AO. This is of course unrealistic because the smoke should be there when the aircraft reaches the AO.

If this is done right, then it increases immersion.

And just a tip for a new tactic in MP: If you have one soldier with marker grenades, you can shoot a smoke on the enemy and he thinks an air strike is imminent. Thus you either disperse or suppress the enemy without wasting an air strike :D

[Macser_old 0]

@Wuschel

The hit could be related to the smoke itself.Try setting it to false in the "options.sqs". :)

[Drongo69 117]

Sorry for the late reply guys.

@Vektorboson: I haven't been able to reproduce the bug (though I haven't done much testing). I was using a personal mod based on WGL, perhaps that had something to do with it. I'll change the smoke to white for the next version (or you can edit it in DAS\Dialog\SendToServer.sqs). Also, I'll do something to make the smoke remain longer.

@wuschel

Not sure what would cause the hit at mission start, the code isn't so heavy. As the CAS approaches (and especially airstrikes), perhaps the distance checks cause the hit. I will look at improving this.

[Macser_old 0]

Regarding Wuschel's choppy framerate.I was experiencing the same thing.At roughly the same point.Turning off the smoke appeared to help,but now I think that may have been coincidence.

Because I turned it back on to verify it,and everything seemed to work just fine.I haven't been able to reproduce it so far,despite several attempts.

I don't recall experiencing any excessive load times though.

[sanctuary 19]

The choppy framerate could come too from the large viewdistance used in the example mission.

In the example mission you have a game logic that has

setViewDistance 3000

Maybe people that have framerate drop should try to remove this game logic or set it to

setViewDistance 1500

And see if the framerate becomes better for them.

[Macser_old 0]

That's the likely candidate,as DAS isn't a "resource hog". :)

For me at least,I obviously reduced the viewdistance the next time I tried to reproduce the FPS drop.While at the same time setting the smoke marker to false.It looked like the two were related.Doh!

[wuschel 10]

Hi,

Performance

I double checked the viewdistance entry. It is correct that the viewdistance was THE major reason for the FPS drop. So false alarm here.

Readme errors

There are some errors in the readme however: Check the marker names. Also, the (quite) important trigger "Juliet" that leads to define.sqm is not included.

Accuracy

I tested DAS with WGL (however, with BIS Aircraft), and it seems that they were hitting as often as they were missing. That is fine for me.

Compatibility issues:

I included DAS in a DAC multiplayer mission: DAC does intialize with a small error while working (at least it seemed to me), while DAS does not work.

Suggestions

It would be great if there could be included a greater control of aircraft availibilty:

- How many strikes

- when availible (i.e. triggers in editor)

- how long until CAS Aircraft spawn after request

- how long until next strike is availible

- does the CAS respawn when lost in the mission

Again, great stuff, keep it up, and try to keep it compatible with as many addons as possible.

[AKM 0]

Wuschel has some good suggestions on features to add to DAS if possible. Good catch on the readme, I didn't notice that - must have missed the forest for the trees again.

Vektorboson: I'm still working on getting the NATO SOPs, but it seems unlikely to me that we'd mark the target area with smoke at all. Anything within range of a smoke canister throw is too close for CAS except in "We're being overrun" situations. Fortunately DAS includes an option to disable the smoke; setting it to false in options.sqs it seems.

White smoke is used for obscuration. NATO uses yellow/orange/red smoke to designate landing zones regardless of how "hot" they are; it's because those colours are easily seen and not used for obscuration.

[Drongo69 117]

Those are some good suggestions. "How many strikes" is set in DAS\Define\Define.sqs or CustomDefine.sqs. For example "dasCraftWest1" controls how many calls of type "dasTypeWest1" are available.

For these...

- when availible (i.e. triggers in editor)

- how long until next strike is availible

- does the CAS respawn when lost in the mission

... I have written a script which can be run on the server or any host. The user specifies the side, the type and a value and the appropriate variable detailing the number of strikes is incremented by the value given. So the user can write his own scripts that call this adjustment script to suit his own taste.

For "how long until CAS Aircraft spawn after request", if you want this set globally, it can easily be changed by editing DAS\Control\Spawn.sqs. After "#Go", just put in a ~60 or however long you want. If people want each side or type to have a different value, I can include that for the next version.

The trigger "Juliet" has been removed, I was just using it for testing purposes. I have also removed the view distance logic.

I'm still missing the problem with the marker names. The text for each is "Air Support Corridor", but the names are dasMarkerWest, etc.

I will test it with DAC tonight, but only in SP. Hopefully it is only something as simple as delaying the start of DAS until DAC is ready or something like that. DAC can really lag at the start of a mission.

Thanks for the comprehensive feedback, please keep it coming!

Edited April 1, 2010 by Drongo69

[vektorboson 8]

I just have taken a look at the marker grenades in JAM, and they are red; further research shows, that red smoke should be used when designating a target for CAS.

Some documents on this:

http://jimmiehbutler.com/FAC%20Marking%2059.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-50/Appc.htm

It seems that at least up to the Vietnam war marker grenades were used. Anyway, I don't want to force that smoke on anyone; I actually want that the player needs to shoot a marker grenade instead of smoke magically popping up.

Therefore I made some small changes to DAS; you need JAM3 for this mission to work.

1. After you have started the mission, switch to the M203 and reload the Marker Grenades.

2. Call up the radio, request one of the missions and now instead of clicking on the map, shoot a marker grenade on the target position. This needs some practice, but I virtually hit it on my first try.

3. Wait and have fun.

http://home.arcor.de/vektorboson/tmp/DAS_vb.Eden.7z

[Macser_old 0]

Very nice.It's more accurate than you might think,and has a reaction from the troops too. :)

[AKM 0]

Vektorboson: FM 3-50 C concerns battlefield obscuration (smoke screens) and notes only M156 (70mm Hydra WP rocket) has a primary use of signalling CAS/artillery. The M203/Mk19/M79 systems (canopy or marking) are not used for directing CAS/artillery according to FM 3-50 C.

Your other reference is dated 1967, so middle-of-'Nam, and works fine for Vietnam scenarios but isn't applicable today, the protocols have changed. Good work on finding those, I'm still working my sources though. It'll be interesting to see how the protocols compare. :)

Drongo69: Having tested DAC extensively in a number of MP coop scenarios, I can say that the best thing to do is carefully order the script initiations. DAC needs to come first in most cases, then everything else. It can take upwards of 15-30 seconds to get it all sorted on a locally hosted server.

[AKM 0]

Drongo:

I have acquired information regarding the NATO standard protocols for directing any CAS, defined as any aircraft supporting troops at the direction of those troops on the ground - strike missions might be coordinated with the guy on the ground but can't really be influenced outside of "Abort strike: the target is no longer there" and "abort strike: we're on top of the target".

I will PM these to you shortly.

Edit: In no instance is a smoke marker used. It's all done by "this is my location, the target is XXX degrees and YYY distance from me" for attack helicopters, and "the target is at XXXX-YYYY grid" for CAS aircraft when they're not orbiting your position (thus have a datum on where you are and can service targets relative to your position).

Edited April 3, 2010 by AKM

[Drongo69 117]

Thanks for the info AKM, it should make DAS seem much more authentic. The changes will be included in the next update.

[Drongo69 117]

First post updated with beta 03. Changes:

- Added a dasDelay variable that can be used to add a delay before a craft is spawned in DAS\Control\Spawn.sqs

- Added DAS\Misc\Adjust.sqs to alter the number of strikes available in a mission

- Some cosmetic changes to the dialog

Beta 04 should be a bigger update with the revised protocols.

[Mi6k.Ghulham 10]

OFP engine is just amazing,for a 2001 year game.

I hope the new Menu will be better resolution.

Big Respect to you guys.

All OFP needs is a realtime editor.

[mr.peanut 1]

Drongo. Did you ever deal with the issue of helicopters crashing into hills? I have a very small low resource script that can help with this problem, without affecting the AI. Tall buildings, however, are another kettle. Might work for fixed wing aircraft, but I haven't tried that.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Mr.Peanut

[Drongo69 117]

@ Mr. Peanut: I seem to have fixed the issue. It seemed to be related to using setpos too much on units that had just spawned (to allow them to start engines and generate thrust to start flying). If I used setpos too many times within a short period, it seemed like the AI forget how to fly and just glided along even more mindlessly than usual.

Thanks for the offer though.

[choppabob 10]

Great Addon Drongo, I've been having a lot of fun with it.

I'm wanting to use it with the F/A-18 but can't seem to get my head around using the F/A-18 weapons. It works when I use the laserguided bombs from the A10, but when I try and add F/A-18 weapons, the plane goes through the routine as normal and says 'Bombs away...rtb", but no bombs drop.

Also when the DAS starts I get this message across the top of the screen:

'_wep6=_deadcarg select 5|#|':Error Zero division

Have spent hours trying to figure it out with no result.

Thanks.

[Drongo69 117]

'_wep6=_deadcarg select 5|#|':Error Zero division

This script is not part of DAS, I assume it is part of the FA18 you are using. Perhaps the dummy unit is being deleted while some internal scripts are still running. Are you adding the FA18 with DAS\Misc\AddAirstrike.sqs? If so, we can try some things to avoid this bug.

As for the bombs, you need to know the name of the weapon you want to use. Replace the "laserbuidedbomb" entry in DAS\Define\CustomeDefine.sqs or the init line call in DAS\Misc\AddAirstrike.sqs.

[ladie from hell 2]

@Drongo69

in DAS , the set up of the "Dummysolder" west,east,res/gur , can they be used for other mods such as space mod,ww1 mod, etc .... or does a person setting up use other units from said mod to replace them ??

thanks

LFh

[Drongo69 117]

They are just for spawning purposes, they can be any kind of man as long as they have the correct side. The ideal solution would actually to make them invisible and indestructible units so that they are not accidentally killed in a mission, but I don't know how to make units.