Why is this game not more popular?

[Guest]

Imagine if BIS found a way to intergrate the game with the community. Like whilst In-Game, you click "Download Addons", and an official list of addons is listed. So everyone is on the same boat, has the same version, and its really easy to update.

That would be epic.

[whisper 0]

Imagine if BIS found a way to intergrate the game with the community. Like whilst In-Game, you click "Download Addons", and an official list of addons is listed. So everyone is on the same boat, has the same version, and its really easy to update.

That would be epic.

Bingo

Or, check server list, see something looking interesting, connects. The server uses an addon/mod you do not have, you are prompted "do you want to download it?", you click "Yes", download starts (from server itself, external http source, etc... you name it, depending on how the server is configured), then content is installed, and A2 is restarted with the correct parameters to have the addons activated and auto-connect on the server. And you're set, and this is friendly to any one playing on public servers.

This would be, imho, the single biggest change and step forward if it was implemented.

I can agree with what your saying, but part of me hopes that the game never becomes super easy for the casuals to get into, lest servers become infested with the younger generation running around tea bagging and doing otherwise generally immature things.

^- this is partially the elitist attitude I was talking about. Where anyone not playing ArmA is from "younger generation running around tea bagging and doing otherwise generally immature things" just because they didn't go past the first steps and above what they see as issues to their way of playing. I don't understand this type of reaction, moreover if you played OFP back then.

In OFP days, all types of playing were present and all were enjoying the game without being on a personal war against each others. There's no reason it has to be different now, apart from 1 very annoying fact to me (again, what I call elitism).

I'm probably going to get yelled over for this, but imho, one of the biggest issues is that a part of the community is convinced that the purpose of OFP/ArmA serie is realism and military simulation, and nothing else. They believe that anything going away from realism is bad for ArmA, and justify any issue in the game with realism factor.

I think this is not true. If I'm not mistaken, devs themselves stated in the OFP "development debriefing" article that the original intent behind the engine was scale and scope. They nearly made a RPG instead of a FPS (and that was their plan for a future game after OFP if I remember well) with this engine.

But they made OFP, and the immersion, the campaign, the open ended side of the game attracted many people.

They switched to the "simulator" side of things probably because they knew to have a dedicated part of the community behind them, something they considered a solid enough customer base to get something done on it.

But realism, as we now see it in ArmA, was not there in original OFP, and had been brought up mainly by the way of mods and addons. We had more "FPS-esque" players playing OFP day in / day out, doing competition and such stuff (without any issue with the rest of the community).

With ArmA, BI tried to cater to the vocal realism crowd, probably to try presenting something more realistic without needing community modding. Doing so, they put away many, many of their player base. Because it introduced performance issue, because the handling of the game was far worse than OFP (but more "realist", some will say, and this is were we hit realism's limits), because they tried to made a more realistic campaign instead of immersive, but holywoodesque scenario, and failed to deliver something fun.

Since then it's considered normal that these players are put away from ArmA and that ArmA is made for simulation-type of players.

I don't think it's normal, as it was not in OFP

Worse : by trying to make the game "ultimately realistic", they failed. ACE, and today ACE2, was still needed to get the full experience of realism. Ie, they still needed the community to get the thing done properly for the realism crowd, and on the other hand they broke the game for the FPS crowd and lost customers. Failed on both sides.

I divided things between "realism crowd" and "FPS crowd", which is a gross generalization, for sure :) But it delivers the message in a clear manner, so...

Imho, making the game performing smoothly, handling smoothly, first and foremost, while implementing the feature outlined by Richiespeed would have kept most people on ArmA/ArmA2, and would have added a big tool for the community to shape the game to anyone's desire through auto-download. Win on all sides instead of fail on both sides

[tj72 0]

To summarize some thoughts of this thread:

Question: Why is the game not more popular?

Some think because people dont like it and never will. The game is not right for them.

Some think people do like it but because of problems x y and or z they left.

a)These problems can be fixed.

b)These problems can never be fixed.

The game is popular enough and doesnt need to change.

The game is not popular enough and needs to change.

The game needs more marketing support.

The game needs more polish

etc.

Nobody can really answer this question fully as we are talking about a changing group of people that no longer play Arma2 or never got into it because something prevented them from trying or wanting to try. The perfect answer to the question would require polling all these people and somehow making sense of all that data. Very likely some key reasons would rise to the top of that process. We could start a thread with a poll with some of these main reasons to see if a good feedback can be had.

Personally I think the MP numbers are dismally low. If we had 4x the number of public play servers on 24/7 it would be alot easier for public online players to actually get into the game and see what is possible. Yes there are idiots in the public area that ruin games but there are also "good" players who are looking for a way to enjoy public MP and are finding it too difficult and giving up. We need those good people to stick around and we need to give them more reasons to stick to it then to give up. Despite all the other problems this to me is the primary issue and answer to the question. Addons make it more complicated but its not the main problem. Missions arent really using the addons to the fullest anyway. I would love a simple mission defending a base but also have it act as a tutorial using the new ACE features and make the features part of the game. Like the intro missions in so many games where you do things for the first time and an NPC guides you through the process. A simple mission concept like that will unify all the user content and also give people a way to get into the game and its addons more easily. Making things easier like this is a good thing and we shouldnt worry about keeping the trash out before welcoming new guests in at this point.

Now the online scene of this game, to a new user or non recruit, feels like a medieval land with all these fiefdoms of passworded servers that are nice in their small little ponds with big fish in them but there is no "big city" or decent size cluster of public servers with variety for non squad "pubbers" to get into online play with. If you want to play Arma2 online you have to join one of these clubs and go through that process which may not be desirable to a public online user (or "pubber" as I have been called on some squad servers running public). There are at least two public servers I can think of that serve this need but we need just a bit more. We need smaller missions as the whole island ranging mission is to prevalent and, while a cool idea for an environment, takes a large toll on the network load. We need both the large small and medium missions to be widely used and available to public players to get a better showing of the games capabilities. Right now it seems public servers only like to host whole island type missions as a way to maximize the programs potential too desperately.

Campaign system was made to divide up a whole islands resources and entities into separate segments for neat and efficient resource handling. This concept should apply to SP and MP. Bring back classic small scale coops in a big way and public players should respond positively. Its not impossible to have a mission with action right at the start. Its just a matter of whats appropriate for the missions goals.

Its not like Arma2 needs to be as huge as MW2 in its numbers. We dont even have 1% of the player base that MW2 has. We just need a full cup of the water from that pond instead of a teaspoon full we have now. We need enough bodies in public MP to create a base that can feed into the squads and leagues again by giving them new recruits. If you dont have new bodies in the public online area your squad group will have less potential recruits when your numbers start to dwindle internally.

I find the passions displayed in this thread to be very impressive. We can tell how much people care about this by how strongly their feelings come through in their posts.

So much more to say really......

[Guest]

I must admit, Whisper really has it spot on. This has been said many times and is totally true, Arma 2 is the most realistic simulator available, but at the same time it is still extremely unrealistic.

Its just so true. Arma 2 is what YOU want it to be. You wanna tea bag people and no scope? You can do that! Wanna play in a squad and pretend you are a real soldier? You can do that too!

Arma 2 is a players game. You decide the way things happen.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

^- this is partially the elitist attitude I was talking about. Where anyone not playing ArmA is from "younger generation running around tea bagging and doing otherwise generally immature things" just because they didn't go past the first steps and above what they see as issues to their way of playing. I don't understand this type of reaction, moreover if you played OFP back then.

So is it elitism that I've taken the time and effort to learn how to play the game and enjoy the postives of it while accepting the negatives? I'm more than willing to help people out if they're new as long as they're willing to learn and that is the key.

The reason you don't see as many of the casual crowd playing Arma 2 is for the same reason you don't see hordes of people playing games like Lock-On or DCS. Arma 2 isn't really a casual game in my opinion. Does it have game modes and missions that are fairly casual?

Yes.

Is it casual enough for the regular run and gun crowd to move across and play?

I doubt it.

Just look at what happened to Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon series and how they thrived once they moved into the more 'mainstream' section of gaming.

[Rayers12 19]

It really just needs some ads somewhere someone will see them.

[whisper 0]

So is it elitism that I've taken the time and effort to learn how to play the game and enjoy the postives of it while accepting the negatives? I'm more than willing to help people out if they're new as long as they're willing to learn and that is the key.

Did you read the rest of my post?

OFP was more casual than A2, was a success, and we (simulation type of players) enjoyed it as much as less strict players.

Why should it be different?

Edited February 11, 2010 by whisper

[Bulldogs 10]

Lt : "We need the C4 soldier and it's on that hostile's body"

Soldier 1 : "Don't worry, sir, I'll get it"

..........

Soldier 1 : "C4 acquired, falling back"

Lt : "2, you've been spotted, fall back"

Soldier 1 : "Ok, moving .... dammit! I forgot something, need supressive fire"

Lt : "All, fire on enemy at 1 o'clock"

(Soldier 2 races to the enemies body and begins tea bagging)

Soldier 2 : "Phew, never would have forgiven myself if I missed that opportunity"

[galzohar 31]

When it comes to addons, while addons are nice and all, it feels really silly when a server running a deathmatch mission requires you to download CAA1... I mean, people making missions and running servers need to have things into proportions and think about whether using a certain addon is worth the effort it's going to require from anyone who wants to play your mission or play on your server.

[Zipper5 74]

Sometimes it's done deliberately to dissuade people from joining, you know. Most of the dedicated PvP servers tend to only allow their group into the server, or at least people who want to be there so much that they download such large mods. It's quite smart, actually. ;)

[[aps]gnat 28]

The reason you don't see as many of the casual crowd playing Arma 2 is for the same reason you don't see hordes of people playing games like Lock-On or DCS. Arma 2 isn't really a casual game in my opinion. Does it have game modes and missions that are fairly casual?

Yes.

Is it casual enough for the regular run and gun crowd to move across and play?

I doubt it.

Agree.

But even with the "casual" modes & missions available in (OFP/ArmA/ ) ArmAII, I think the "one shot, one (potential) kill" scheme (read: "realism") still puts the non-realism crowd off.

But thats all fine by me, I'm happy to stay a member of an "elite" group ;)

[tj72 0]

Sometimes it's done deliberately to dissuade people from joining, you know. Most of the dedicated PvP servers tend to only allow their group into the server, or at least people who want to be there so much that they download such large mods. It's quite smart, actually. ;)

So in that groups little fiefdom, all their extra addons in thier missions are like spikes and razor wire around the castle to make sure the trash doesn't get in......

Why is this game not more popular then?

Addons should be used where appropriate for missions and really should add something to the gameplay other than just repainting things or just because the mission maker thought it would make their mission seem cooler. Its better all around if addons werent used to create a barrier for some bad element of the community.Its better that addons enhance the gameplay somehow with new visual appearance coupled with new functionality that gives the player more options and aspects to play a mission and reach mission goals and get that feeling of actually playing a game instead of fighting with it constantly.

All the user missions should have Vanilla versions and Addon versions for users to chose from. Its really a lame screw over of your users to release your mission any other way. So many addons are put in missions for no good reason and if there isnt a good reason for the addon to be there then they shouldnt be in there. So mission makers should have more courtesy and consideration for new users and those who are addon resistant. If a mission used addons this way, people would want to use them more.

I know people out there dont care about mainstream type players and new users and thats fine. Keep not caring.

Dont care about the "pubbers" and the new users that are having a problem trying out your new content or playing on your server. Dont care also when your "community" dries up because these players are tired of being pushed around by a bunch of inconsiderate self centered cyber-elitists who are more than happy to actively limit the numbers of public players in Arma2 to increase the value of their protected castles of squad/clans that can rule the wasteland.

Older sim games had Arcade mode and Realism mode on their main screens. Arma2 has it kind of with vetaran/cadet but the community does hold realism on a higher level than arcade type gameplay. In fact the "Arcade" model is held in utter contempt by many folks around here. So much contempt that they feel entitled to an abusive attitude towards opponents in thread debates as if they are white knights warding of some evil force of "Arcade Madness". People who want an arcade style of play for Arma2 have to contend with alot of guff and static from the devout realism crowd around here. I have been seing it happen for months now in my lurkage. Shame on you people. You know who you are......

Last time I tried to play online I couldnt find one public server not running Domi/Ace Domi or Warfare. Ok there was a CL server but Im not into RPG. No CTF these days, not even on weekends. That is sad. All others were locked/passworded. I tried for ten minutes to connect to a game and got bounced for missing content. I would have to write down the .pbo names in the message and then search for a Addon title on armaholic and try to match it to get into the mission. While I can do that, I can also see how its a point of departure for many users that will not complete the cycle and will just give up. Its the same old problems except some of you out there think its just fine. The public pool of players is dwindling and BIS is losing potential customers. But you guys with your squads and clans are good to go so F everyone else. Really that is what it seems like. Impressions count for alot.

Above my post there are so many right answers in this thread to the question at the top its not even funny.....

not funny at all.

[bangtail 0]

So in that groups little fiefdom, all their extra addons in thier missions are like spikes and razor wire around the castle to make sure the trash doesn't get in......

Why is this game not more popular then?

Addons should be used where appropriate for missions and really should add something to the gameplay other than just repainting things or just because the mission maker thought it would make their mission seem cooler. Its better all around if addons werent used to create a barrier for some bad element of the community.Its better that addons enhance the gameplay somehow with new visual appearance coupled with new functionality that gives the player more options and aspects to play a mission and reach mission goals and get that feeling of actually playing a game instead of fighting with it constantly.

All the user missions should have Vanilla versions and Addon versions for users to chose from. Its really a lame screw over of your users to release your mission any other way. So many addons are put in missions for no good reason and if there isnt a good reason for the addon to be there then they shouldnt be in there. So mission makers should have more courtesy and consideration for new users and those who are addon resistant. If a mission used addons this way, people would want to use them more.

I know people out there dont care about mainstream type players and new users and thats fine. Keep not caring.

Dont care about the "pubbers" and the new users that are having a problem trying out your new content or playing on your server. Dont care also when your "community" dries up because these players are tired of being pushed around by a bunch of inconsiderate self centered cyber-elitists who are more than happy to actively limit the numbers of public players in Arma2 to increase the value of their protected castles of squad/clans that can rule the wasteland.

Older sim games had Arcade mode and Realism mode on their main screens. Arma2 has it kind of with vetaran/cadet but the community does hold realism on a higher level than arcade type gameplay. In fact the "Arcade" model is held in utter contempt by many folks around here. So much contempt that they feel entitled to an abusive attitude towards opponents in thread debates as if they are white knights warding of some evil force of "Arcade Madness". People who want an arcade style of play for Arma2 have to contend with alot of guff and static from the devout realism crowd around here. I have been seing it happen for months now in my lurkage. Shame on you people. You know who you are......

Last time I tried to play online I couldnt find one public server not running Domi/Ace Domi or Warfare. Ok there was a CL server but Im not into RPG. No CTF these days, not even on weekends. That is sad. All others were locked/passworded. I tried for ten minutes to connect to a game and got bounced for missing content. I would have to write down the .pbo names in the message and then search for a Addon title on armaholic and try to match it to get into the mission. While I can do that, I can also see how its a point of departure for many users that will not complete the cycle and will just give up. Its the same old problems except some of you out there think its just fine. The public pool of players is dwindling and BIS is losing potential customers. But you guys with your squads and clans are good to go so F everyone else. Really that is what it seems like. Impressions count for alot.

Above my post there are so many right answers in this thread to the question at the top its not even funny.....

not funny at all.

I see, so according to you, those of us who play privately, limit our servers etc are "cyber elitists"?

That's a truckload of BS. I know many people who do that very thing (myself included) and it happened as a result of so many negative experiences with "vanilla" players.

The community will never die for us, it is only inaccessible to people who want everything their way right out of the box and ArmA 2 is simply not that game.

It's not my job to educate "pubbers" and "new users". I started from 0 when OFP came out and I taught myself how to write missions etc. It has absolutely nothing to do with being an elitest.

This game requires a large investment of time and effort to fully benefit from what it has to offer. If you don't put the time in, you'll probably never experience the true power and versatility of what BIS has created here.

If all you want to do is join pubs on "vanilla" settings, I'd suggest you are missing the point of this series of games and you would be much happier playing BF2 (or some equivalent).

We don't say "go play BF2" to be dismissive (at least I don't), I say it because I sincerely believe, based on your comments, that it would be a far better choice for you.

[EDcase 87]

TJ72,

The niche market of realism can create an elitest outlook by some players.

Ideally it would be good to have some servers running vanilla basic MP games for new people to get to grips with but who would run and pay fo em?

I too get booted quite often for not having the right mods. (ACE2 is required in more servers now) But on the other hand these mods do add to the gaming experience and are one of ARMA's strengths.

I'm lucky I can still find a few servers that either use vanilla game or any mods u want. So far these public servers have been very good with no hacks or silly people.

So I think there are servers for cadets/newbs to try out but it depends where they are globally. I believe Europe has the highest availability of servers but some countries have very few so ARMA is far less likely to be popular in those.

BangTail may be a bit blunt but he's right that this games REQUIRES more learning and patience than other games so the new players must adapt to the game NOT try to adapt the game to those players.

Edited February 12, 2010 by EDcase

[Herbal Influence 10]

Last time I tried to play online I couldnt find one public server not running Domi/Ace Domi or Warfare. Ok there was a CL server but Im not into RPG. No CTF these days, not even on weekends. That is sad. All others were locked/passworded. I tried for ten minutes to connect to a game and got bounced for missing content. I would have to write down the .pbo names in the message and then search for a Addon title on armaholic and try to match it to get into the mission. While I can do that, I can also see how its a point of departure for many users that will not complete the cycle and will just give up. Its the same old problems except some of you out there think its just fine. The public pool of players is dwindling and BIS is losing potential customers. But you guys with your squads and clans are good to go so F everyone else. Really that is what it seems like. Impressions count for alot.

Above my post there are so many right answers in this thread to the question at the top its not even funny.....

not funny at all.

Don't get it wrong:o, but if I don't find a server doing the mission I want, I open up some of the many, many servers out there waiting to be played on (about a 700 24h/7days).

I did so today ... I did not yet get started the mission while the first one was joining ... :eek:

And suddenly there was that very mission online that I wanted to play ... :D

But, as I said, don't get me wrong.

I feel like you that Arma2 is an overwhelming game if not an experience or even an attitude.

I do not have any problems with few gamers online - I would simply ask them whether they want my mission or join their mission if they don't want to change/restart for me.

This works if there would be a 4 gamers online 24h/7days.

Mass games (more than 20 online gamers) are seldomly playable with a strategic attitude in mind.

But there are at least 350 and in the evenings (european) there are 1200.

On weekens I have seen close to 1800 cogamers online.

Right now, look here, there are about a 700 gamers and (!) servers online.

But nevertheless:

The discrepancy between the attractiveness of Arma2 and the online gamer numbers is quite strange.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Herbal Influence

[LugNut 10]

I stumbled across ARMA2 after seeing Dyslexi's vids on TrackIR. I was like "WTF game is THAT!" Couldn't believe the realism after coming from years of COD. Thought it'd be perfect for me and my fellow clanmates who've been chasing realistic gameplay for years.

DL'd the beta, struggled with it performance wise, learning many, many new controls, died many, many times. Finally bought the game, waited for patches and at long last with 1.05, all is good.

I've been playing MP for 5 years and MP in ARMA is the biggest pita I've ever seen. Not the gameplay, the gameplay is great, it's finding and getting on servers that's pretty ridiculous.

Why can't you connect to a server and if you don't have the necessary addons, they simply get DL'd to your comp like every other game I've played? I feel like you've got to be an IT professional just to get this game up, running and get into MP. Far too many hoops for most to jump through, even those who are not RNG noobs and would love it. Half of those I've turned on to it and thought it was great still weren't willing to go to all the effort required. People have lives, they'd like to be able to just boot up, join a server and play. I think the technical issues of ARMA2 have really cost it in community size. MP is the future of any game, it's got to grow to enable a game to live for years, no offence to those who like to play by themselves with the mission editor, but MP is where you develop new converts.

For those who don't want any noobs on their servers, just PW it. Easy.

[tj72 0]

Bangtail,

The difference between our views is this: I want those who come after me into Arma2 to have an easier go of things than I did. You expect them to measure up to the same trials and challenges you did. Sounds right?

I dont want these casual players to encounter this barrier of challenge and commitment without at least improving things and making it easier for them.

I believe the word is "Progress" or "Evolution". As we go forward things should be made better and work more easily. Its as simple as that.

Just because I had the diligence and commitment to "stick with it" to see OFP/Arma/Arma2 do what other games have not does not mean others will.

We are filtering out the casual types and are left with the hardcore types. We cannot sustain an online public pool of players with just the hardcore types left over.

You dont have to educate anyone, you dont have to do anything you dont want to. Feel free to call me out on my words, I welcome the debate and admire your passion. I just wish you would not feel the need to defend the community from what you see as its downfall by making it a bit more accessable to the non hardcore types and enrich our online numbers that way. I believe we can have both realism elites and arcade public worlds exist in harmony and you seem to think otherwise. Another basic way in which we differ I think.

I cant believe your group never recruits/never looks for other squads to play against or never has even one player since OFP not drop out and prompt the need for a replacement. It sounds like stagnation. All i want is a larger pool of public vanilla easy access missions and servers that act as a doorway into the elite realism layer or addon use and more advanced modes of the game generally. I really think we both want this because I take your side into account by trying to give you more foundation whether you think you need it or not. Feel free to hand me my head about this but I just hope you take what I say to heart and recognize I have passion about this too.

[Zipper5 74]

Though I did say it was smart of them to implement such a method, I did not say it was right. Personally I wish that mods were used sparingly and that there were many more servers running without addons than with them. And even then, I'd hope that they were quality addons and mods and not thrown-together addon packs that you can't get unless you visit their website.

But, people pay for their servers, so it's their choice as to what they want to do with them. One can still hope, nonetheless... :rolleyes:

Edit: Oh, and automatically downloading addons isn't such a great idea in the long term. Think of what would happen if you joined a server that used ACE2.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Zipper5
Last part

[tj72 0]

Hi Zipper,

You do a good job as Devils Advocate! Sorry for the backblast. :)

[gulag 10]

I think the answer is simple:

Because it is a very difficult game, frustration caused by failure is present in this game more than in other games, is a game that requires a lot of patience, compared with arcade games that satisfy own ego, this game is a challenge, and more than that, it needs a more mature mind. Simple proof: the ESRB rating from the box.

Edited February 12, 2010 by gulag

[bangtail 0]

Bangtail,

The difference between our views is this: I want those who come after me into Arma2 to have an easier go of things than I did. You expect them to measure up to the same trials and challenges you did. Sounds right?

Not really. It's not about what we want respectively, it's about how it is.

I dont want these casual players to encounter this barrier of challenge and commitment without at least improving things and making it easier for them.

I believe the word is "Progress" or "Evolution". As we go forward things should be made better and work more easily. Its as simple as that.

Ok, but unfortunately, that just goes against the nature of the game. It's very much the same thing with flight sims, they have a learning curve and require you to invest time and effort. You genuinely sound like someone who wants an "iwinbutton".

Just because I had the diligence and commitment to "stick with it" to see OFP/Arma/Arma2 do what other games have not does not mean others will.

Ok, too bad for them I guess.

We are filtering out the casual types and are left with the hardcore types. We cannot sustain an online public pool of players with just the hardcore types left over.

No, but as many others have said, the complexity and unforgiving nature of ArmA 2 actively disuades casual gamers from sticking with it. If you change the game to suit them (and make it like every other vanilla FPS out there, then BIS risks losing a very dedicated fan base), something I just don't see them doing. Would you be happier in a world where everyone looks the same?

You dont have to educate anyone, you dont have to do anything you dont want to. Feel free to call me out on my words, I welcome the debate and admire your passion. I just wish you would not feel the need to defend the community from what you see as its downfall by making it a bit more accessable to the non hardcore types and enrich our online numbers that way. I believe we can have both realism elites and arcade public worlds exist in harmony and you seem to think otherwise. Another basic way in which we differ I think.

Unfortunately, I just can't agree with you. BIS need to stick to their base of gamers. Deviating from what has proved so successful for them is not an option for so many reasons.

I cant believe your group never recruits/never looks for other squads to play against or never has even one player since OFP not drop out and prompt the need for a replacement. It sounds like stagnation. All i want is a larger pool of public vanilla easy access missions and servers that act as a doorway into the elite realism layer or addon use and more advanced modes of the game generally. I really think we both want this because I take your side into account by trying to give you more foundation whether you think you need it or not. Feel free to hand me my head about this but I just hope you take what I say to heart and recognize I have passion about this too

Because we mainly play co-ops, we don't need to recruit etc. Even in games I do play PvP, like PRM for example, I always play with the same group. Sure there are always your "iwinbutton" gamers in that game as well but they leave pretty quickly when they realise that it requires a great deal of team play and you can't "rambo" all over the place.

I understand what you want although I don't agree with it at all where ArmA 2 is concerned.

I respect your opinion and the fact that you have presented it in a friendly, coherent manner.

Finally, I'm not trying to group you with the "iwinbutton" crowd but some of the things you seem to want, imply that you prefer a very easy or "casual" gaming experience.

Edited February 12, 2010 by BangTail

[Zipper5 74]

A game with this type of a community needs a mix of casual and hardcore players. I've seen many times in the past the hardcore players become... the "majority", shall we say, and become incredibly and ridiculously belligerent. Then again, if we have too many casual players, the game could go BF2 style.

If you want a hardcore realistic community, buy VBS2. You can't go any better than that. ArmA II is damn realistic for a commercial game, but realism does not always equal fun. I for one do not consider myself a hardcore realism fan of BIS' games. I enjoy the more "gamey" aspects of it, but I also need the levels of realism. That's why people complaining about things like the oddities in Gaia's EW campaign really get me going. ;)

[EDcase 87]

I think the server list should have a filter to show games with no required addons.

There should be a button to show more detailed info about a server like time running etc... and mods used.

[Zipper5 74]

Yes, I think that would be great. But I'm not sure if it's possible to code the game to differentiate between addon and addonless servers. However, we are talking about one of the most flexible game engines in history. :p

[dmarkwick 261]

Yes, I think that would be great. But I'm not sure if it's possible to code the game to differentiate between addon and addonless servers. However, we are talking about one of the most flexible game engines in history. :p

Anything is possible when you have the source code ;)

I'd expect, for the sake of bandwidth, that the ingame list will initially contain ALL servers, with the only filter being an initial version number filter. Then, maybe say upon single-click of a server, the particular requirements of that server can be compared to your current addon list, and a more detailed analysis can be texted up.

---------- Post added at 06:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:35 PM ----------

Finally, I'm not trying to group you with the "iwinbutton" crowd but some of the things you seem to want, imply that you prefer a very easy or "casual" gaming experience.

I like ArmA2 for what it can be made into, but I don't think that BIS should force that gameplay onto everyone who buys it right off the bat. The game NEEDS to be accessible in the first instance. That means that certain concessions have to be given in order to do that.

However, as we all know, the "real" meat of ArmA2 is how it can be tweaked into the experience many people here enjoy. ArmA2 should, in order to draw these people in from a new user base, be able to span those two states and any states in between. IMO making it relentlessly "hardcore" by design will only hurt the product. It NEEDS a sliding scale of difficulty otherwise the user base will eventually dwindle faster than it grows. This is only good business sense :)