Why is this game not more popular?

[bangtail 0]

Yes, I think that would be great. But I'm not sure if it's possible to code the game to differentiate between addon and addonless servers. However, we are talking about one of the most flexible game engines in history. :p

That's the problem, by changing the open ended nature of the game to support certain "casual" (go here, do this) types of gameplay would detract from the non linear design.

The campaign and SP missions are very easy if you set the difficulty to novice.

Let's face it, I finished Bioshock 2 in ~2 hours on medium difficulty. That was $49.99 and I'll never play it multiplayer.

So many of you come here and complain about A2, but considering the alternatives, I would not want to see ArmA 2 changed to accomodate casual players anymore than it already does.

The campaign and SP modes will give you ~10 hours of play at a minimum and if you want to venture into the editor beyond that, there is no limit to what you can do.

Yes, it involves a solid investment of time and effort but if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.

ArmA 2 is a bargain for the editor alone, the SP and campaign are nice additions but I suspect that they are not the reason that most of the long term players buy the game.

Edited February 13, 2010 by BangTail

[kklownboy 43]

That's the problem, by changing the open ended nature of the game to support certain "casual" (go here, do this) types of gameplay would detract from the non linear design.

T...

..+1..

[Antigoon 10]

Lt : "We need the C4 soldier and it's on that hostile's body"

Soldier 1 : "Don't worry, sir, I'll get it"

..........

Soldier 1 : "C4 acquired, falling back"

Lt : "2, you've been spotted, fall back"

Soldier 1 : "Ok, moving .... dammit! I forgot something, need supressive fire"

Lt : "All, fire on enemy at 1 o'clock"

(Soldier 2 races to the enemies body and begins tea bagging)

Soldier 2 : "Phew, never would have forgiven myself if I missed that opportunity"

What is teabagging , so I can follow the rest of this discussion...:o

[galzohar 31]

What does wanting an easier time to find servers you can get into has anything to do with the gameplay of Arma 2? Seriously, how difficult it is to get a game going is a much bigger game killer than any mission-specific (gameplay) issue. How is anyone going to get past the learning curve if he can't even get into a game?

[Herbal Influence 10]

I just did a crcti 0.9 by opening one of the 700 waiting servers and after 15 min someone else joined me spontaneous (non of my clan) on the opposite side.

(By the by: anyone knows a crcti more elaborated in the direction of our wonderful bwmod crcti from ofp? Didn't find it yet :( )

Toooo bad he left, when I found his base ... :o

So, go on open servers and play so that interested gamers will find everything they can imagine ... :)

Oh ... I forgot the one who tried to join me with ACE-mod on ... he just couldn't join.

Vanilla is more friendly to absolute beginners ... ;-)

All what is missing online is the experienced cogamers who spend millions of hours doing islands and addons etc. etc.

I think that would deliver another 2000 gamers each night.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Herbal Influence

[Zipper5 74]

I would host a server of my own if I had the funds, but not all of us have a regular paycheck and/or over 18. ;)

[kklownboy 43]

some facts about Steam game usage..

Avidbird is right, if you take in WoW...On a pure amount of players playing...

[tacticalnuggets 24]

What does wanting an easier time to find servers you can get into has anything to do with the gameplay of Arma 2? Seriously, how difficult it is to get a game going is a much bigger game killer than any mission-specific (gameplay) issue. How is anyone going to get past the learning curve if he can't even get into a game?

Thats exactly the point I am making.

I have broken it down a lot for everybody. But I guess I can break down the source of the problem even more.

Too many needed things not built into the game...

Every person that replies to my ideas goes: "MOD"! "ADDON!" "Do it yourself!" "BIS cant do that!" "I'm a scared of the regular peoples" "Only autistic people should play this game" (the last two are sarcasm)

Edited February 13, 2010 by tacticalnuggets

[[asa]oden 0]

.. "I'm a scared of the regular peoples" "Only autistic people should play this game" (the last two are sarcasm)

:D :D :D

Anyway, What good comes out of ArmA series being alot more popular (how do we actually measure this "popularity")?

[Alex72 1]

Thats exactly the point I am making.

I have broken it down a lot for everybody. But I guess I can break down the source of the problem even more.

Too many needed things not built into the game...

Every person that replies to my ideas goes: "MOD"! "ADDON!" "Do it yourself!" "BIS cant do that!" "I'm a scared of the regular peoples" "Only autistic people should play this game" (the last two are sarcasm)

Join a team and use Yoma's AddonSynch (wich many does). This way the whole team is updated on the addons used by the team. Public gaming with a title that uses tons of addons would be hard no matter wich game it is. But there are solutions. Its all up to the player if he wants to moan or seriously get into the awesome gaming that ARMA2 is. ;)

PS. Even without being in a team you can use Yoma's tool. Search for servers in it and launch the game to a server with equal mods. You can also download and maintain your mods through the program.

[Pulverizer 1]

Avidbird is right, if you take in WoW...On a pure amount of players playing...

WoW is a special case. It's a game for bored housewives, not gamers.

Say Starcraft or Warcraft3 and you might have a point.

[wamingo 1]

ODEN;1568211']Anyway' date=' What good comes out of ArmA series being alot more popular (how do we actually measure this "popularity")?[/quote']

By using the public server player numbers. Compare it to eg MW2, although not a completely fair comparison as arma favours private servers and single player, you'll still see the population is still quite tiny.

The reason you would "normally" want the game to be more popular is to get more variety in MP servers and for BIS to be more successful so they'll support the game more.

Bangtail, there's no reason why BIS couldn't implement a filter for addons and mods. Gameplay has nothing to do with it.

Automatic addon/mod download might stress the servers so I don't know if this is such a good idea.

Although I believe you can actually pack addons with missions, but I don't think this is used very much and it is somewhat wasteful if the addons are big.

However BIS could definitely add some way of easier telling what you need and how to get it. eg show a window with proper titles of needed addons upon joining a server and do away with the incomprehensible file names that you have to guess what is. And perhaps save out the needed addons to legible text file or browser window as well.

Hosting is a bit tricky of course. Armaholic eg, isn't hosted by BIS so it would probably not be totally proper for ArmA to send you there directly, but it could send you to a sticky forum post that links to the various addon/mod/etc.

Sometimes little things like this can go a long way.

[Bulldogs 10]

BIS games like arma 2 are designed the way BIS wants them. When people suggest that you use mods, it's not because BIS couldn't put the features in the game, it's because you want to try something that BIS didn't want to put in the game.

That's the hole point of mods. Everyone has different preferences, so BIS release Arma 2 and say "this is how we wanted it, but if you want something different we'll give you the tools to make it yourself"

---------- Post added at 12:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------

But yes, it would be handy to have a way to detect what mods are needed for a server, but in the mean time let's hope more people host their server mods through Yoma's addon sync.

[kklownboy 43]

WoW is a special case. It's a game for bored housewives, not gamers.

Say Starcraft or Warcraft3 and you might have a point.

More guys play that with many avatars...

i have a point,its you who has no substance but attack, PC gamers are PC gamers... We will just check this one up that your are wrong. Chk!

---------- Post added at 10:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 AM ----------

...

Sometimes little things like this can go a long way.

To what? I have more than enough servers to play on? granted Bis could always use more customers. Game play is as diverse as its going to get, there are like eight styles of play ... More than 12 players is almost always bad... There are great 32+ servers out there, but only because there is a "tiny" pool to choose from. Now this a coop i speak of, but even PvP(yuk) or TvT( good) gets lame with too many players on Pubs.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

[/color] To what? I have more than enough servers to play on? granted Bis could always use more customers. Game play is as diverse as its going to get, there are like eight styles of play ... More than 12 players is almost always bad... There are great 32+ servers out there, but only because there is a "tiny" pool to choose from. Now this a coop i speak of, but even PvP(yuk) or TvT( good) gets lame with too many players on Pubs.

That is BS. I'm sorry to say, but those things are not a problem, nor were they ever a problem. Its like a relationship with a tribe. You get sick of the people there, but at the same time you realize, this is the only way I can survive, otherwise I will starve. So you just put up with it.

You should just put up with it, because the lack of multiplayer community is causing most to starve. No one is saying you cant have your little groups of team work only players. But when a big server is running, and people want a quick way to jump into the game of arma2 and kill some other human players then thats absolutely fine.

BIS should be disturbed that there product is not being sold to full potential because a greedy but dominant group of players is advocating that they be the only ones having fun. That is pretty messed up. But even then, hardcore players like me are figuring out a major problem with this equation. Who the heck am I supposed to play with?!?!!?

[Pulverizer 1]

More guys play that with many avatars...

i have a point,its you who has no substance but attack, PC gamers are PC gamers... We will just check this one up that your are wrong. Chk!

That's cool with me. You can do that. Of course WoW and those krazy South-Koreans with their Starcraft take the top spots when going by player numbers. It's still ridiculous to argue that FPS isn't a very prominent genre on the PC.

To add something relevant to the topic:

I was just thinking that it can't be much about marketing. Was OFP marketed much? I don't think so. Arma2 stayed weeks on the Steam top sellers list and other PC charts. Many people heard about Arma2 and bought it, many people just didn't like it (for various reasons already listed in this thread).

[[aps]gnat 28]

Oh, and automatically downloading addons isn't such a great idea in the long term. Think of what would happen if you joined a server that used ACE2.

Exactly.

Not everyone in the world is connected to a WWW pipeline !

I can just imagine, joining a server for a 30 minute blast, then spending the next hour trying to download its "special" addons !!

Not workable.

The current addon synch tools made by USERS are the answer. Just a shame BIS didn't incorporate.

[Herbal Influence 10]

I would host a server of my own if I had the funds, but not all of us have a regular paycheck and/or over 18. ;)

Why would you?

There are - as I pointed out in this thread about a three times - more than 690 servers continiously online. Most of them "waiting" i.e. empty and free for use.

---------- Post added at 10:46 ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 ----------

Thats exactly the point I am making.

I have broken it down a lot for everybody. But I guess I can break down the source of the problem even more.

Too many needed things not built into the game...

Every person that replies to my ideas goes: "MOD"! "ADDON!" "Do it yourself!" "BIS cant do that!" "I'm a scared of the regular peoples" "Only autistic people should play this game" (the last two are sarcasm)

Sorry - but what?

Community does continously create mods and addons for each and everything - many that can be discussed about because simply making the game more arcadish i.e. reducing reality - and then community wines about BI not making it more easy to join a server with xyz - addons and xyz-mods with an xyz-mission?

What about coming back to simple fighting and combat on vanilla servers for a while?

That might attract people.

Who can really say he learned all and everything within the vanilla version?

Sure, mods/addons etc. are a fine thing, but it is simply not possible to have both without big security risks

WHO are in first row blaming BI then

- for having downloaded an addon appearing then as a trojan/virus etc. thought it was signed with a bi-key?

- for having problems with the automatic-addon-download-software?

- for having to pay a monthly fee for having their central community chat constantly online?

Sure that are those who have a BIG tendency to request for more, more, more - without ever having payed for more than the vanilla version.

Fact is Arma2 was forked so fast into certain "religions" as ACE2 and vanilla gamers like never before (OFP, Armed Assault).

And there are other forks too.

Combined with the really ambitious updating thingie with six-updater of ACE2 the normal beginner finds only half of the servers playable.

And last not least:

I would enjoy Arma2 with only being a few gamers online, because tactical gaming require only a few. More than a few and tactical gaming is quite a rare thingie.

If I sound provocative, it's only to revive the discussion and not meant personally.

I love the discussion. :)

Edited February 14, 2010 by Herbal Influence

[whisper 0]

Gnat;1568776']Exactly.

Not everyone in the world is connected to a WWW pipeline !

I can just imagine' date=' joining a server for a 30 minute blast, then spending the next hour trying to download its "special" addons !!

Not workable.

The current addon synch tools made by USERS are the answer. Just a shame BIS didn't incorporate.[/quote']

Errr.. With a "Cancel button", that's something better to you?

Once again : connect to a server, he's using addon/mod you don't have, a pop-up appears "this server uses this list of addons : X, Y, Z. Do you want to download them to connect (XXX Mbytes)? Yes/No"

If "No", back to MP lobby

If "Yes", download begins, then the game is restarted with the missing addons activated, and auto-connecting to the same host

What would be the problem with that? Don't you see the huge step forward it would be?

Honestly, the "autistic" comment was spot on. You guys are really too high in your bubble thinking you're playing a game way above average.

Would I judge A2 from the level of gameplay on public servers (exactly like you lot judge other games), I would have a very, very low note for this game.

If you're happy with A2 being reserved to pseudo-realism elitism and cut from more than half OFP's original MP crowd, be my guest, but in my view, you are not an OFP-fan in that case. Again, case in point : 2 and more playstyles were coexisting without any issue in OFP. It should still be possible in A2 without the elitist crowd coming crying for noobness..

[Herbal Influence 10]

Once again : connect to a server, he's using addon/mod you don't have, a pop-up appears "this server uses this list of addons : X, Y, Z. Do you want to download them to connect (XXX Mbytes)? Yes/No"

If "No", back to MP lobby

If "Yes", download begins, then the game is restarted with the missing addons activated, and auto-connecting to the same host

What would be the problem with that? Don't you see the huge step forward it would be?

Honestly, the "autistic" comment was spot on. You guys are really too high in your bubble thinking you're playing a game way above average.

Would I judge A2 from the level of gameplay on public servers (exactly like you lot judge other games), I would have a very, very low note for this game.

If you're happy with A2 being reserved to pseudo-realism elitism and cut from more than half OFP's original MP crowd, be my guest, but in my view, you are not an OFP-fan in that case. Again, case in point : 2 and more playstyles were coexisting without any issue in OFP. It should still be possible in A2 without the elitist crowd coming crying for noobness..

If BI directs to the addons/mods like you said above - they will be held responsible even more for their quality and will get bashed if they do work like they quite all are: not-yet-perfect.

But especially when they include malware of any kind.

I don't think it's "elitistic" if you simply do a lot more vanilla publicly.

And chat with the people coming online, help them - whereas I mean chatting by textmode - at last that's what I prefer much more.

And the least should be to say "Hello!" if you enter a server.

It's much more fun to kill people you socialized with a bit ... ;)

[whisper 0]

Errrr, what? oO

It's not BI who is redirecting to addons, it's the server owner...

The processus I describe is nothing new, for your information, it's used in other games, many of them

[galzohar 31]

Yes, and in addition if you could actually get attacked by an addon due to some kind of flaw in Arma 2 (because honestly if Arma 2 is working as intended it should not be possible at all) then BIS have (or will have) some serious problems on their hands whether automatic addon download is available or not.

In any case, they can always warn you that what you are downloading is user-made content and they are not responsible for it. Heck they should probably do that when it comes to downloading missions, too, as too many people blame the game for being buggy even though they were really experiencing bugs in the mission that have nothing to do with the game being buggy (not that the game isn't buggy, but they don't even get to see those bugs as they quit the game due to mission bugs first).

[An Fiach 10]

Show me a game that doesn't have bugs. IL-2 Sturmovik has been in development for 9 years and still has bugs.

Define "good"? What's "good" is interpretive to each individual.

uhm - http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Dedicated_Server#Downloads Plently of dedicated server support.

Don't have that problem on my server unless someone is trying to connect from the other side of the ocean. In which case, their ping may be around 200, but their desync will be too high to be an effective player. There's ALOT of info being transmitted to the player. Every obkect has a state (detryoed, knocked over, damaged, etc) and ALL of that has to be transmitted to the player. I'd say any netcode that can handle that in any capacity is doing pretty good.

We all know it's a niche genre. It's not a twitch kill shooter like L4D. It's not a console game ported to PC (MW2, BFBC2). While there's really nothing else that can compare to it, it's still not for the majority.

Il-2 was playable out of the box, Ireally don't know what you mean by bugs, but it was nothing like ArmA 2

"Good" as defined by players wanting to play them, it doesn't apply to anything that shipped with ArmA 2. This game relies solely on player made content to succeed.

The dedicated server stuff was an after thought, as in they thought after many complained of the lack of it, they better put something out there.

Netcode- I've played much bigger games and I tell you a ping of 200 shouldn't give you insane desync, no matter where in the world you are connecting from. I get desync with a ping of 60, that's bad.

Anyway, I was answering the question from the OP with my post, mindlessly defending a game that has no defense for its shortcomings is fruitless and there are many more that are a turn off for sim fans. Yes, we all know this is a niche game but it COULD be more popular. Getting people over the first obstacles is the issue. You can't take back first impressions.

[avibird 1 154]

Many good points and a lot of closed minded views have been stated on this thread about Why is this game not more popular?.

Let me say first for a game like OFP/ARMA I prefer COOP gameplay for this type of game. The reason is the game was designed to simulate a combat situation with more focus on planning and recon then shooting targets just like in real combat. Most players who play FPS just want to get into combat and kill a human player and there is nothing wrong with that but a lot of other games do a better job with player vs player modes based on the game design. OFP/ARMA game play is designed for a slower gameplay that requires a lot of patience that most players who want player vs player modes don't want. Just look at the games that have a large player vs player community ie BF/COD yes it's more run and gun but the game was made for that type of play.

The best missions that I have played for OFP/ARMA1 have been rescue, target VIP, escort/convoy, stealth to take out AA guns (timed before air support comes in to take out the base) ect. (hopefully you guys get my point). This is the gameplay that this game engine stands out for. The fundamental problem is you are never going to get one team of HUMAN PLAYERS to agree to stay and follow the convoy while the other team plans the attack on the convoy or hold the positions to protect/defend the AA GUNS. All these missions work great when you are playing COOP and the human players (team) can be the attackers or the defenders. When I make missions I always make both sides playable for the human group (COOP).

BOHEMIA needs to put some focus on player vs player vanilla modes/missions of this nature but the key is a well balanced mission for both sides to play as.

It has been stated before on this thread. Most of the better groups/units/clans stay in locked rooms and the new player who gives this game a go gets put into some F UP public rooms with no direction/leadership and over time just walks away from the game.

To sum up.

1. Better player vs player missions from BOHEMIA for public use with focus on mission objectives.

2. Vet players need to get out of lock rooms and show and give the new players some leadership and direction to make this game grow in numbers.

3. Auto download system to help with MOD's BOHEMIA needs to put into the game. (I never talked about this but it's one of the reasons this game is not more popular with the general gaming community.

Some of you will agree with me and some of you are going to attack me.

Edited February 14, 2010 by AVIBIRD 1

[Zipper5 74]

Sure, we could wait for BIS to be making better PvP missions, but we have almost the exact same tools they do, so why aren't we? The community produces 1000x more than what is included in BIS' games, but it is our choice that these are not PvP missions, and that we don't play ones that are. If BIS were to start forcing people to play PvP missions, that would break the spirit of their games - you can do whatever your heart desires. It's just unfortunate that most seem to desire the same mods and missions over and over and over again.

But if you want better PvP missions - make your own, get your own server and watch the numbers grow. It's all up to you in BIS' games which, frankly, is what makes them so great. That goes the same for the so-called "veterans" wanting to play in their own groups in locked servers - it's their choice. Many more people would be disgruntled if BIS were to force people into things than there would be with them not doing so. That's a well-established fact.

Some of you will agree with me and some of you are going to attack me.

I guess someone can't simply disagree with you then...