Mid east

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Who would not want a peaceful ending? I know who they live next door to the Israelis. I am not saying all Palestinen people are for terriosm, but the country sure does nothing to stop it.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hi Kurtz.  What the hell kind of comment was that for then?

[blah... blah.... blah... blah... blah....]

<span id='postcolor'>

Hi Sirloins.  How many pages of this thread have you read?

[SirLoins 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hi Sirloins. How many pages of this thread have you read? <span id='postcolor'>

I didn't know I had to read ALL the pages of this forum to comment.

I've read enough to know you and I do not see eye to eye on this subject

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,05:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hi Sirloins.  How many pages of this thread have you read? <span id='postcolor'>

I didn't know I had to read ALL the pages of this forum to comment.<span id='postcolor'>

Neither did I.  What a scary thought.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,05:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I've read enough to know you and I do not see eye to eye on this subject <span id='postcolor'>

Really?  In what way?

[Bernadotte 0]

Sirloins, I hope you came to this thread for a discussion because I have some questions about your opinion.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just because some of us support Israel doesn't mean we support all the violence.<span id='postcolor'>If not all, then how much of the violence do you support?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would love a peaceful ending to this mess.<span id='postcolor'>Who here wouldn't?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All they have to do is stop the Homicide bombing.  Seems reasonable to me.<span id='postcolor'>Is that all?  Then why didn't it end before 1994 when suicide bombings started in Israel?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But they only understand one kind of reason.  The reason of violence.  If they had any wish to stop this caos, they would.  But violence is the only language they understand, so that is why Israel retaliates with military force.<span id='postcolor'>Does "they" refer to all Palestinians?

(By the way, anyone in this forum who has made any such general accusations against the Jewish community has been rightfully warned and often banned.  You might want to think about your answer cuz so far it sounds quite racist.)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can't support Arafat because he is irrelivant to any peaceful solution.<span id='postcolor'>What if he is re-elected next January?  Do you really believe that ignoring him will help end the chaos?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He had the chance to get 90% of his demands with the Clinton administration and turned it down.<span id='postcolor'>Why should he accept losing more territory, especially when they've already lost 78%?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't have the solution.  But until the Palestinians stop the bombings,  Israel has no choice.<span id='postcolor'>No choice about what?  ...Buiding more settlements on Palestinian land?

[KingBeast 0]

I find it laughable that people still think Arafat is responsible for the latest bombings. If people have the means to embark on a suicide mission, they dont get permission from Arafat. They will just do it because they want to.

Old man Arafat is all locked up and under siege in his one remaining building. He isnt even a leader anymore, just a figurehead. So how, pray tell, can the palestinian people stop other palestinian people from going on suicide bombing missions?

Its like persecuting the entire Irish population if a member of the IRA decided to bomb a shopping centre.

Why arent the Israelis targeting the Hamas headquarters, instead of wasting resources on merely humiliating Arafat? Sharon has made this far too personal, all he is doing now is saying to Arafat "haha I win, you lose"

[bn880 5]

Well, I bring what I think is a logical observation to the warmongers: why is the United States not in Israel and Palestine now rescuing Arafat from this insanity, and why do they not set up guarded borders there? Please tell, since Americans and their supporters say the US is the police of the world, why is it always ignoring the Israeli military. (Note: setting up a guarded border would surely stop the attacks of both sides)

Do you know the shape ofthis border?

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ Sep. 22 2002,07:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Old man Arafat is all locked up and under siege in his one remaining building. He isnt even a leader anymore, just a figurehead. So how, pray tell, can the palestinian people stop other palestinian people from going on suicide bombing missions?

Why arent the Israelis targeting the Hamas headquarters, instead of wasting resources on merely humiliating Arafat? Sharon has made this far too personal, all he is doing now is saying to Arafat "haha I win, you lose"<span id='postcolor'>

Yes do you like Israels strategies?

[*] Prove to the world Arafat doesn't have any ruling power by taking it away from him. Attempt to demoralize all Palestinians.

[*] Work towards buying Palestinians out (since West world likes buying) by destroying their entire infrastructure; rendering business, manufacturing, education, and policing inoperative.

Someone sounds like a big conceded liar. (the Israeli, or the Palestinian?)

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Sep. 22 2002,15:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, I bring what I think is a logical observation to the warmongers:  why is the United States not in Israel and Palestine now rescuing Arafat from this insanity, and why do they not set up guarded borders there?  Please tell, since Americans and their supporters say the US is the police of the world, why is it always ignoring the Israeli military.  (Note: setting up a guarded border would surely stop the attacks of both sides)

Do you know the shape ofthis border?<span id='postcolor'>

see, for US, damned if you do, damned if don't

[SirLoins 0]

Oh boy, a test.

<span id='postcolor'>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)

Just because some of us support Israel doesn't mean we support all the violence.

If not all, then how much of the violence do you support?</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

What a sarcastic question.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)

I would love a peaceful ending to this mess.

Who here wouldn't?

<span id='postcolor'>

Do you really need me to answer that?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)

All they have to do is stop the Homicide bombing. Seems reasonable to me.

Is that all? Then why didn't it end before 1994 when suicide bombings started in Israel?<span id='postcolor'>

I was talking about Homicide bombings. There's a difference.

I can't answer your question execpt for the fact that "they" don't want peace. "They" want Israel pushed back to the sea.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)

But they only understand one kind of reason. The reason of violence. If they had any wish to stop this caos, they would. But violence is the only language they understand, so that is why Israel retaliates with military force.

Does "they" refer to all Palestinians?

(By the way, anyone in this forum who has made any such general accusations against the Jewish community has been rightfully warned and often banned. You might want to think about your answer cuz so far it sounds quite racist.)

<span id='postcolor'>

Sounds quite racist? I'm not an audiologist.

"They" are whomever you wish. All I know is after 9/11, all I saw on TV were the streets filled with cheering men, women, children, military etc. So you tell me who "they" are.

Racism, has nothing to do with this issue, unless YOU make it one. The race card always seems to rear it's ugly little head.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)

I can't support Arafat because he is irrelivant to any peaceful solution.

What if he is re-elected next January? Do you really believe that ignoring him will help end the chaos?

<span id='postcolor'>

He will still be irrelivant. Will his re-election make him relivant?

What will be different?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)

He had the chance to get 90% of his demands with the Clinton administration and turned it down.

Why should he accept losing more territory, especially when they've already lost 78%?

<span id='postcolor'>

That's what was negotiated. You have to start somewhere. He turned down the deal. Your living in the past. We have to deal with todays realities.

<span id='postcolor'>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 21 2002,02:40)

I don't have the solution. But until the Palestinians stop the bombings, Israel has no choice.

No choice about what? ...Buiding more settlements on Palestinian land?</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

No choice in defending their people.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Sep. 22 2002,10:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">see, for US, damned if you do, damned if don't <span id='postcolor'>

Well if you do then do, if you don't then don't, but be consistent.

[SirLoins 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Posted: Sep. 22 2002,16:49

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote (bn880 @ Sep. 22 2002,15:13)

Well, I bring what I think is a logical observation to the warmongers: why is the United States not in Israel and Palestine now rescuing Arafat from this insanity, and why do they not set up guarded borders there? Please tell, since Americans and their supporters say the US is the police of the world, why is it always ignoring the Israeli military. (Note: setting up a guarded border would surely stop the attacks of both sides)

Do you know the shape ofthis border?

see, for US, damned if you do, damned if don't <span id='postcolor'>

Well Ralph, we can agree on that.

[bn880 5]

Oh man

Four Palestinians protesting siege shot dead

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet....ry

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 22 2002,12:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">see, for US, damned if you do, damned if don't

Well Ralph, we can agree on that. <span id='postcolor'>

SirLoins, it's bacause it's not really true. If you do it has to be true, if you don't also, but it is not.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Please tell, since Americans and their supporters say the US is the police of the world<span id='postcolor'>

LOL We say that?

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 22 2002,13:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Please tell, since Americans and their supporters say the US is the police of the world<span id='postcolor'>

LOL We say that?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Let's see, I am an American and I do not say that.

[bn880 5]

Good for you DOR.

Let me get this back up so someone actually realizes it's still valid:

Why is the United States not in Israel and Palestine now rescuing Arafat from this insanity, and why do they not set up guarded borders there? Please tell, since Americans and their supporters say the US is the police of the world, why is it always ignoring the Israeli military. (Note: setting up a guarded border would surely stop the attacks of both sides)

Do you know the shape of this border?

[Sam Samson 0]

Bernadotte, your last post to SirLoins was contrived. Shame on you.

bn880 is his usual ranting self. (At least I'm entertaining in my rants.)

KingBeast, you need to study up on the persona of Mr. Arafat.

This guy is more sly and ruthless than the, pardon me, dimwits from the IRA ever were.

Read why he was banned from Jordan in 1970.

Read his legendary "I carry an olive branch in one hand and a gun in the other" speech from 1974 before the UN.

He didn't change one bit.

Find out about his tactics of throwing stones at daytime and sniper attacks at night. About his appeals in English for a cessation of terror and his Arabian appeals for martyrdom.

The man is the despotic leader of his people.

When his al Kuds newspaper wouldn't print a praise-article to him featuring him as Saladin, the chief editor was abducted and severely beaten by his henchmen.

Arafat does not just terrorize Israel, but his own people.

Let me throw in another idea, since the humanists among us are bent on arguing that we need to respect the culture and traditions or Araby.

In most of the mid east they still use the rule of the jungle.

The guy with the biggest gun rules down there. (Saddam first came to Baghdad with a gun in hand and at the head of a bunch of no-gooders). That is what those people respect. It is their culture. They don't care what we think. They have treated one another like that for millenia.

The mid east is a far cry from your presumably tempered civic culture. (Have you ever been there? I mean in a country that was not subsidized by the US like Egypt and Israel?)

Now, in following this time-honored mid eastern rule of winner takes all the following logic would apply:

If a nation, (i.e. israel), conquers territory that territory then belongs to the victorious nation.

That nation, (i.e. israel) would also have to learn to live with the fact that the enemy from whom the territory was taken would only wait for a chance to pounce.

They have done that several times. (So far israel always won.)

Violence and the rule of the fist: that is the fact of life in the mid east. (Ignore at your own risk.)

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Good for you DOR.

Let me get this back up so someone actually realizes it's still valid:

Why is the United States not in Israel and Palestine now rescuing Arafat from this insanity, and why do they not set up guarded borders there? Please tell, since Americans and their supporters say the US is the police of the world, why is it always ignoring the Israeli military. (Note: setting up a guarded border would surely stop the attacks of both sides)

<span id='postcolor'>

Where does America say this? We do not belong in the middle eats, give Israel supllies and weposn, but not U.S. soldiers.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 22 2002,18:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh boy, a test.<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry no.  ...Just a discussion if possible.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 22 2002,18:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was talking about Homicide bombings.  There's a difference.<span id='postcolor'>

There are much better ways to enrich your vocabulary than by mimicking George W. Bush.  Most folks are sharp enough to figure out the intention of a bombing without having to add the word homicide.  The recent homicide bombing at the U. of Jerusalem didn't kill the bomber.  I suppose you would have to call that one a non-suicidal homicide bombing to convey that the villain got away.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 22 2002,18:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He will still be irrelivant.  Will his re-election make him relivant?

What will be different?<span id='postcolor'>

The difference is that, at present, he remains in his elected position because he declared that his term should be extended a few years back when it was to have expired.

rel·e·vant  adj.  Having a bearing on or connection with the matter at hand.

Most would agree that whomever the Palestinian people will elect to be their leader shall have a bearing on or connection with matters at hand - even if it's Arafat.  (...And I truly hope it's not.)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 22 2002,18:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That's what was negotiated.  You have to start somewhere.  He turned down the deal.  Your living in the past.  We have to deal with todays realities.<span id='postcolor'>

ne·go·ti·at·ed  v. tr.  To have arranged or settled by discussion and mutual agreement.

Nothing was arranged or settled by discussion and mutual agreement at Camp David II.  There was no deal.  There was only a bad offer that included a number of items that had already been included in Oslo, but never delivered.  The bad offer was rejected.  You should really make some effort to find out why instead of simply believing everything you see on TV.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 22 2002,18:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No choice in defending their people.<span id='postcolor'>

...Against an angry reaction to settlements (and other suffering)?  Of course they have a choice - give up the damned settlements!

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 22 2002,18:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Good for you DOR.

Let me get this back up so someone actually realizes it's still valid:

Why is the United States not in Israel and Palestine now rescuing Arafat from this insanity, and why do they not set up guarded borders there? Please tell, since Americans and their supporters say the US is the police of the world, why is it always ignoring the Israeli military. (Note: setting up a guarded border would surely stop the attacks of both sides)

<span id='postcolor'>

Where does America say this? We do not belong in the middle eats, give Israel supllies and weposn, but not U.S. soldiers.<span id='postcolor'>

DOR, it's (police issue) something US supporters claim all the time. This is not even debatable.

[SirLoins 0]

Bernadotte...... Thanks, I have a dictionary.

Arafat is irrelevant.....he has had his chances and has failed. He has no control over his people. He is a roadblock to any hope of ending this mess.

ir·rel·e·vant Pronunciation Key (-rl-vnt)

adj.

Unrelated to the matter being considered.

As for my vocabulary, I will use whatever terminology I wish. If my president chooses to use the same, then so be it.

Look, I will not go back and forth with you on these issues.

These are my opinions, like it or not.

To say they are flawed will accomplish nothing and certainly not change my mind.

(mind Pronunciation Key (mnd)

n.

The human consciousness that originates in the brain and is manifested especially in thought, perception, emotion, will, memory, and imagination.)

I side with Israel. There is right and wrong with both sides. You may choose to side with the Palestines, that is your prerogative....

(pre·rog·a·tive Pronunciation Key (pr-rg-tv)

n.

An exclusive right or privilege held by a person or group, especially a hereditary or official right.

The exclusive right and power to command, decide, rule, or judge)

[Col. Kurtz 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 23 2002,10:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Arafat is irrelevant.....he has had his chances and has failed.  He has no control over his people.  <span id='postcolor'>

Good. Then you will agree with me that it is a bit stupid the Isralis sieging Arrafts HQ demanding him to hand over 'militiants' that he probably has no control over.

[SirLoins 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Posted on Sep. 23 2002,03:27

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote (SirLoins @ Sep. 23 2002,10:33)

Arafat is irrelevant.....he has had his chances and has failed. He has no control over his people.

Good. Then you will agree with me that it is a bit stupid the Isralis sieging Arrafts HQ demanding him to hand over 'militiants' that he probably has no control over<span id='postcolor'>

I didn't say the militants were irrelevant.