I am very disapointed in bis's lack of sniping....

[Aculaud 0]

I dont care what anyone thinks, i just fealt i had to gripe about this and get this out of my system. This will be very contrary to everyone out there who thinks snipers are wimps who just go hide someplace. This is not true. snipers are a very indespensable aspect of warfare, as we (No, i dont shoot people from afar in real life, i was refering to us videogame snipers) can hit targets beyond the range of the common soldier that might be of some priority.

Aside from that, sniping is just plain fun for me, and everyone else who loves it as well, i'm sure.

I just fealt i had to voice my complaint about the lack of snipability in OFP. I was just playing around in the editor, trying to work on this mission i'm building, and it just got to me.

First off, i'm just going to say how much i hate how none off the bell towers that you can go in face anything worth sniping. What is the purpose of having bell towers that dont face anything interesting. And the bell towers that are actually at a good height and arent blocked by their roof are in accessable. I hate that.

Next, on Malden, theres maybe one good pirch, the rocks by lolisse, but thats about it. Everon, pretty much just the towns leading up to saint pierre. thats all. The Desert Island isnt even worth mentioning as far as this goes. Kolgujev has pretty much the only good sniping territory, and even this struggles for origionality quite a bit.

As far as rifles go, why the m-21? Its 1985 (in the game). We can have laser guided bombs that are capable of taking out 20 abrams in one strike, but we cant have a sniper rifle that isnt made out of wood? C'mon! why not at least the m-24? or the m-40? those were common in the days the game takes place, and did their jobs a hell of a lot better than the m-21. Hell, they were made to replace the damn thing. The dragunov, i actually dont have a problem with, as it was pretty much the main sniper rifle for Russia in that time.

And what about the power and accuracy of the sniper rifles? Iv shot guys up to four times before they die with these things. And it was a torso shot. I feel i should be able to kill with one shot to anywhere except limb shots. If i was actually shooting them in the arms instead, i could understand why they werent dying, but ballistics needs to be modeled a bit better for these weapons, so the shot actually goes where the cross hairs are zeroed.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeew.....................(deep breath)

Ok, i'll end with one of these: and by saying that i am now done being fanatical. Reply if you wish, i dont really care.

[ralphwiggum 6]

well...i think on field, especially near forest, there are great places to snipe from. bushes are just concealments, but they are scattered around enough that if you choose one on hill, it's so fun to mess with your enemies.

desert island is just for some basic testing as far as i'm concerned.

if you get tired of fields, goto La Trinite and start sniping. there are some houses that can see about 300 meters, but since you have to stand to look over window, it's a bit harder.

or around Hodan-Dourdan area.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

This isnt wwii.

If u didnt know, snipers normally dont engage enemy units, since they are working alone. IF they engage any its ONE enemy unit and then they move on.

Snipers are used as intel. The sniper aspect in OFP is perfect. You can hide in the landscape very easily and stay conseeled. Its pretty easy to stay hidden.

In VERY rare occasions they hide in buildings, as what you want them to be. But that is very rare, and wouldnt really make much of a difference.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

I think real life snipers also would wish that the bullet hit the crosshair every time, but it doesn't. Trajectory, wind, small inprecisions in barrel and scope all adds up. No real sniper gets headshots every time, especially on a moving target. If snipers hit their target in first shot every time, no one would wanna play infantry.

But I do agree about the sniper spots - there should be more suitable belltowers and they should conceal your shot better, so the AI don't blow up the church after you release the first shot. "Visible firetime" should be a quarter or less when firing from a building.

[Sheriff 0]

The only point i agree is with the range of rifles available, Sniping is too good in OFP. For one the scope should shutter when aiming and second the improvement of bullet drop, Sniping should involve more cooperation, The need for a more sophicated Spotter role and the proper radio communications between the two, As i see it it's way too GOOD in OFP and every other darn game on the market.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ April 03 2002,10:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">First off, i'm just going to say how much i hate how none off the bell towers that you can go in face anything worth sniping. What is the purpose of having bell towers that dont face anything interesting. And the bell towers that are actually at a good height and arent blocked by their roof are in accessable. I hate that.<span id='postcolor'>

Not a very wise idea to snipe from a bell tower. You will be the first target of assorted tanks with large guns. You are better of hiding in a less obvious place.

As for the other thing I think that BIS hase done a great job on the ballistics. The sight is perhaps a little to easy to use, but what the hell - it's a computer game. IRL it is also much harder to shoot an assult rifle because of the enormous recoil, but you can't feel that behind the monitor, can you?

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">IRL it is also much harder to shoot an assult rifle because of the enormous recoil, but you can't feel that behind the monitor, can you? <span id='postcolor'>

Assault rifles are have less recoil in general, especially if they are chambered in 5.56 X 45 Nato. Kalshnikov style rifles are chambered in 7.62 X 39 RSR which is milder than 7.62 X 51 NATO. This is due to the fact that most assault rifles have recoil buffers. Especially M-16 type rifles. Now if you are talking about an FAL which shoots a 7.62 X 51 NATO, yes the recoil will bruise your cheek due to the undersized buffer assembly. A bolt action rifle like the M-24 has a solid recoil but it's not terrible. Consider the M-21, which is just an accurized M-14 with a scope. It was originally designed as an assault rifle. When you get into exteme long distance sniping that is when the recoil factor becomes a pain in the ass. Such as using rifles chambered in belted magnums like .300 Win Mag, or .338 Lapua. The recoil on the Barret is surprisingly managable due to the massive muzzle brake, but your spotter will find that he is missing his eyebrows.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ April 03 2002,13:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Assault rifles are have less recoil in general, especially if they are chambered in 5.56 X 45 Nato. Kalshnikov style rifles are chambered in 7.62 X 39 RSR which is milder than 7.62 X 51 NATO. This is due to the fact that most assault rifles have recoil buffers. Especially M-16 type rifles. Now if you are talking about an FAL which shoots a 7.62 X 51 NATO, yes the recoil will bruise your cheek due to the undersized buffer assembly. A bolt action rifle like the M-24 has a solid recoil but it's not terrible. Consider the M-21, which is just an accurized M-14 with a scope. It was originally designed as an assault rifle. When you get into exteme long distance sniping that is when the recoil factor becomes a pain in the ass. Such as using rifles chambered in belted magnums like .300 Win Mag, or .338 Lapua. The recoil on the Barret is surprisingly managable due to the massive muzzle brake, but your spotter will find that he is missing his eyebrows.<span id='postcolor'>

English?

j/k

Anyway, i've always loved sniping a lot, in every game i get i'm a sniper! The aiming system of the sniper rifle in ofp isn't very good i think. I sometimes shoot a perfect headshot and even then that bastard lives, damn man, in real life i probable could see his brains fly all over the place when i hit him from that close in the head!!!

Some guy (forgot who) said something about the bullet dropping, wind and all that stuff. Well, ofcourse these factors are important for a sniper to hit a target so why not show how much wind there is (like in Delta Force 2). I don't know if they had machines to measure the wind in 1985 but you can guess how much wind there is and you can feel where it's coming from pretty good in real life so they should use this in the game.

Snipers rule and in a lot of games they are really hated, i don't see why, ppl say that snipers are cowards. Snipers hide in bushes, they shoot and then they hide again, they're scared shitheads. That's what everybody says. Snipers hide, and they can kill some ppl before being seen but sniping takes a lot of skill and practise! It's hard to hit a moving target and snipers usually get a lot less kills than an assaulter. Snipers need to find a good spot and when they come in contact with an assaulter while going to a spot it's pretty obvious who'll win the fight.

I don't think snipers are cowards, if you want to see cowards, play Medal Of Honor in multiplayer, those rocketguys, they are the sissys

[WKK Gimbal 0]

I don't think snipers are considered cowards. It takes enormous skill to be a great sniper, compared to doing the spray-and-pray with a G36.

Sniper training also involves much other than shooting practice, like observation, survival, thermal and optical concealment, navigation, meteorology, and even drawing vehicles and landscapes!

I guess the fascinating aspect is the skills required, more than having fancy equipment.

[DarkLight 0]

I totally agree

[Cloney 0]

I agree with both Darklight and WKK, When I play an OFP co-op mission on my friend's LAN. We have one guy who just plays as a sniper. He is our eyes and ears. He is normally 200 to 300 meters ahead of the main group. He is an expert at sneaking through enemy lines and such. I would never call a sniper a coward...

I prefer to play as a Grunt, I'd rather assault the place and participate in large scale firefights. Snipers are invaluable for recon but once they start shooting they can kiss their ass goodbye because everyone is going to be looking for him.

[Supah 0]

If you ever played Firearms (a half life mod) you will understand why i hate snipers. Every one playing that is just saving point so he can get a barret .50 and kill the oposition from 500 meters away. It kills the game as it is meant as an assault type of game. Good thing for me is i dont have the patience it takes to be a sniper i just run around shooting and lobbing grenades. I find that allot more fun.

[Hardliner 0]

Sniping... its not bad but still a bit more cowardly than other jobs in military I guess. Taking someone out from a long distance while they don't have the ability to shoot you is still cowardly. This is not only sniping but by other things as well such as artillery. Taking people out at long ranges to me just seems cowardly but I guess everyone who disagree will have a go at me. I'm the up close and personal type. Its more fun in OFP to duck around corners shooting people at close range. I don't know, not an issue I guess.

[scout 0]

the problem with the single-player missions is that the sniper usually goes with u. thats a f*cked up way to use one.

a good sniper is  fearsome, but few of them are really good.

and any less then that, u r just dead one.

in the army they taught us to fear the syrian snipers, cause they are among the best.

if u'r up more then 3 sec. ur dead.

BTW. to kill someone from a distance aint cowardly.

its smart.

the whole purpose of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard dir for his

[RedStorm 0]

hmmm..., In online games I almost always play as a Machine Gunner, giving my squad some supportive fire, it's just great to jump to the ground, put your one hand under that bullet-belt and start spraying at the enemy, while all around you squad mates die and bullets fly inches from your face; explosions everywhereL: the works! It Makes it really feel like your doing something for the squad. When I'm not playing as a close support machine gunner I'm always a sniper. I love snipers because...well...they sorta take you away from the action and the bullet impacts. You can listen to some birds and crickets making their lovely music while having your scope on some high ranking officer and giving the assaulters info on their positions, and eventaully, just for the heck of it, pulling that trigger and seeing the brains fly through the air.

[slowyconection 0]

some of these r true

not sure bout the "cowardy" thing

but snipers comin with a platoon?

wtf

and snipin in OFP is no explendalbe

and if u die

i will have the camo

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hardliner @ April 03 2002,17:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Taking someone out from a long distance while they don't have the ability to shoot you is still cowardly.<span id='postcolor'>

Remember that the other squad can have a sniper too, 2 snipers= 2 guys looking for eachother non-stop. I think that as a sniper you fear other snipers the most, i can find snipers fast sometimes just cuz i have a feeling that the sniper's in that bush cuz it's a nice spot. So the sniper still has a pretty large chance to get killed, IF the other team has a sniper ofcourse...

[Ether Dragon 0]

I'm sure the first thing an architect does when drawing up a church is think, "Okay, how can I align the bell tower to provide the best fields of fire?"

It's not up to the developers to create specific locations for prime sniping. It's up to the sniper to use the terrain available to his best advantage. I haven't used the sniper rifle a lot in-game, but I haven't had any problems with it's performance so far. To give an example, I took a sniper rifle and a LAW for a single player quick mission. I forget the name, but you and two other commandos are tasked with killing about 30 troops in a town. I checked the map and found the nearest elevation that would let me target the town through the morning fog and set up just below the ridgeline. In short order, I had dropped every soldier that was standing a post, and stirred up the beehive.

They sent a BMP to scout my location, and I let it eat my LAW. Back to sniping. Only one soldier tried to move up on my position, and I dropped him. The rest contented themselves with running back and forth in confusion. I'd take a few pot shots at them as they ran (suppressive fire,) and was rewarded on occassion with a guy diving to the ground - where they became a much easier target by not moving. Only rarely did I need to shoot a target more than once. Eventually I ran out of targets and, unable to find a decent elevation with a new perspective, I eventually ran into the town and cleared it out with a PK I picked up off one of my earlier victims.

My only real gripe was that the fog kept me from making any longer shots. I hope that I wasn't encountering a draw distance limitation. I loved waiting to see my bullet reach it's target and the need to adjust my windage, however. I moved from location to location on the ridgeline, but no one ever got into a range to return fire on me (aside from the BMP.)

Now then, sniping is about much more than killing a single opponent or scouting. A sniper makes a huge difference on a battlefield. Most infantry platoons will have at least one soldier that has attended sniper school (US Army.) Their accurate long range fire is very effective at suppressing the enemy and pinning them down. An oft used example is the Marine sniper that pinned down a Vietnamese infantry company and subsequently killed all 40 soldiers in it during the course of an evening. After killing the point man, the enemy soldiers took cover and every attempt to flee met with a bullet. The reason that snipers are often called cowards has nothing to do with their bravery, but the fear they instill in the enemy. About the only defense an infantryman has against a sniper is name calling. =) You can't help but hate someone that can own your butt from a mile away. Snipers have proved their bravery on many occassions, as with the two snipers who gave their lives protecting the downed Blackhawk crew in Somalia (they both received the Medal of Honor posthumously.)

[scout 0]

the only cure for snipers is lotsa HE shells and smoke.

and a big big chunk of steel between u!

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ April 03 2002,13:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">IRL it is also much harder to shoot an assult rifle because of the enormous recoil, but you can't feel that behind the monitor, can you? <span id='postcolor'>

Assault rifles are have less recoil in general, especially if they are chambered in 5.56 X 45 Nato. Kalshnikov style rifles are chambered in 7.62 X 39 RSR which is milder than 7.62 X 51 NATO.<span id='postcolor'>

You misunderstood my point. I was saying that recoil is a bitch IRL, which you don't notice in a computer game.

But since you brought it up - the assult rifles I have shot with (primarily Ak4 (HK G3) and Ak5 (FNC 80) have had considerably more recoil then the m90 (L96A1 AW) that I also have shot.

[Sith 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ April 03 2002,18:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hardliner @ April 03 2002,17:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Taking someone out from a long distance while they don't have the ability to shoot you is still cowardly.<span id='postcolor'>

Remember that the other squad can have a sniper too, 2 snipers= 2 guys looking for eachother non-stop. I think that as a sniper you fear other snipers the most, i can find snipers fast sometimes just cuz i have a feeling that the sniper's in that bush cuz it's a nice spot. So the sniper still has a pretty large chance to get killed, IF the other team has a sniper ofcourse...<span id='postcolor'>

LOL this sounds SO familiar.

I had dozens of MP games where I was the sniper (as usual) and there was another good sniper in the opposing team...resulting in the most awesome multiplayer gaming moments ever.

Especially the City Conflict mission is really good for sniper vs sniper fun (because of the valley). You know the enemy sniper is somewhere on the facing hillside of the valley, and you know he's peeking down his scope at every single bush just like you. And when you finally have his face in your scope...for some strange reason, he always sees you at the exact same moment.

Now who has the best shot and quickest trigger finger?

[RedStorm 0]

Hmm, in that case, machine gunning is much like sniping; you have to find a good spot to 'deploy', you have to wait until the rest of your squad moves in, you have to check your surroundings, you have to check if that dumbass AI dude hasn't walked away yet (he's supposed to cover you :S),you have to wait 'til you get the word from the leader, then you open up (an open up with a vengeance )

[Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans 0]

A few points regarding this topic. In the game,

1) I always aim for the head; and

2) I rarely miss (Don't fire if you are not "in range" because you will miss and compromise your location).

3) Sniping is FUN

In the campaign, I often change weapons and take the M21, although changing weapons is not permitted until promoted to Lt. and the M21 is not always selectable. So, as often as I can, I prefer to use the M21 over the M16.

In the Olden Days (US Civil War), snipers were called Sharpshooters, and they often were out in front of the infantry in skirmish lines. Their objectives were to harass the advance of the enemy, to break up enemy formations, and to pick off careless soldiers.

[RedStorm 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans @ April 03 2002,20:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3) Sniping is FUN<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, for you maybe, but think of the guy in your scope about to be killed for the 100th time by a sniper.

[Guest]

This must be the only game where people can say that they like to snipe without everybody yelling "camper"