11/26

[riffleman 20]

Date of attack on finance capital of india.bollywood pereparing a tribute song in memory of all people.

One terrorist is still alive,Ajmal kasab.he will suffer his all life..need to tell a lession to terrorist.

Afghanistan i think a hell of death for Natos soldiers there,war will never end there.take example of kashmir.india fighting there from 60 years.so what will Nato do,suffer losses again and again.we need support of all government to erase it.

Edited November 7, 2009 by riffleman
Re

[vilas 477]

many problems in world are due to religions

if there are religion conflicts like "people of god A kill people of god B, cause people of god A believe they must show god A to people of god B"

also problem is when "west" tries to change "east" with it's (west) money-godlike philosophy of life

"west" believes it's hamburgers and coca-cola should rule the world, while in other world there are other values

i can compare old Polish traditional rules basing on catholic church , for example:

respect to older

example - if you are in bus or tram you MUST give place to sit for old man

what do american in Polish bus ?

sits with MP3 on ears and sings disturbing others to travel in silence :/

i once traveled by train with group of americans, omg :(

they were keeping their legs and boots on other seats !!!!!

they not cared that they can dirt seat and someone can dirt himself a coat :(

when conductor came to check tickets, they were laughing at his accent instead of being thankful that he knows their language

my girl told them to "f***" , one old american (50 years ) had clock with Mikey Mouse :(

o my god , what a kind of...

i remember many US propaganda movies, all those James Bonds, all other movies of US, many movies when they were saying "we must destroy communism, evil empire" and etc, even McGyver when he was on "missions" in east, hehe, McGyver

you wanna know the truth about living in "evil empire" ?

i can say from my parent's and my memory how "bad was it"

we had free of charge education, you have to pay for studies ? we had it free

we had free medical care, you must pay for doctor, we had no

we had militia eyes on everything, so you could safely go street in evening, bandits were rare

we had free holidays and etc.

we had flats for free, now we must work hard to buy home , which previously was given by the state

of course we were more poor, it is truth,

but your "propaganda" was saying "communism bad"

i have comparison and i can say "every medal has two sides"

you wanna know what changed since i have your "freedom" ?

i must work very harder and i cannot afford to have my own flat (which was given free in communism)

my younger friend has to pay for study,

when i broke leg i had to pay for many things, if my friend is ill - his employers not pays him, while he is ill :/

if my children (in future) would like to go to mountains, sea - i must pay for it, previously it was given by my mothers bureau (FWP - Fundusz Wczasów Pracowniczych - employers holidays found)

when i am walking evening on street i must look around if there is no group of robbers

my mother doesn't leave home at night, cause she afraid someone can rob her, take money and beat on street

it is "other face of your freedom", there is ca. 30% people who say they are not satisfied with this what they have now

of course it all depends of money you earn and etc.

but belive me, i would rather have flat to live with my girl than "freedom of speech and travel", i prefer roof over my head and not to afraid of loosing job (there was almost no unemployment before 1989, almost no homeless people)

many people lost jobs in 1990's , many commited suicides because had no money to live, among them 2 people in my block (there are 60 families in my block), cause had no job and money for food and pay for flat

think now yourself about words "we must destroy evil empire and commies" from cold war

you wanted to "fight communism" (free flat, free holidays, medical care and free studies) and "bring freedom" ( freedom of unemployment, poor people without medical care and homeless beging for food) ?

wanna know whom i met yesterday ? old grannie asking for few PLN on bread :( she worked all her life and now has pension not enough to live)

instead of "equal poor with social care" we found in situation when "i cannot afford to buy something"

thats why there always be problems east-west

for example we care about ecology while US not signed international agreements on pollution and use pickups with 6 litter engine which pollute air

they are 5% of population of whole world and they behave like they were 95% :(

and till US won't change look at other world, till religions in world will be used in politics - world will be boiling in blood

on one Kreator song there is also other phrase "terror is a shadow of a fear"

people afraid of something and attack, like animal attacks when feels in danger

to destroy Taliban world should show them "that there is other world"

Talibs have brain washed and no idea, that there is better world than they know

and their leaders use lack of knowledge to wash brains

it will be many many years of education to see "oooo there is other world" for both sides

one side believes "i will get 70 women in heaven when i will kill american" and it is all making problems in world, too much religion lies , too much brain wash, to low education

if they had in their villages internet, and see how world is beauty, they would rather go with camera and make photos than take rifle and die

but from the other side, "west" should not so much tried to change east philosophy and tradition, if my knowledge about US was only from americans i met in life - i would hate them (guy in train, guy in bus)

but i saw many TV programs, how american help each other, when for example his house burned in fire, that i believe that they are good to each other

but it is all thanx to knowledge from internet, TV and etc,

they also payed big price in D-Day

without knowledge i could only judge by arrogant guy in bus and other in train who was hiding his wallet in his pants saying to wife "there is everyone thief, hide money" - he had no idea we know english

other difference east/west is approach to truth

for people from east "lie" is "bad", people from west say "marketing" "PR" - sorry, but for us those are "lies" if it is not true

other difference is sex-approach

in east countries pedophile is not human being and not deserve life

while i heard about man imprisoned in UK for rape on 13 years old for 4 months !!!

4 months ?

this guy was latter lynched by mob, but i cannot understand 4 months

40 years should be price or death, not 4 months

raping child is biggest crime for me, it was case worldwide known , or look at Lithuanian who killed pedophile and is searched by police

for "west" he is killer, for me he is hero, cause he killed someone who hurt children and if he would need help - i would give him any help i can

so there are basic differences east-west

and they cannot be changed if for someone in west (those Helsing human rights fighters) pedophile is human - i will never agree that pedophile is human, never

looking at what "westernians" often write here, sometimes i have doubts "do they have any moral barriers"

Edited November 7, 2009 by vilas

[RaXz 0]

I think everyone has moral barriers to some degree, it only differs per country and individual. There are people that accept any views the media feeds them without questioning, and those that question it. There are people that are such blinded by hate and others that try to understand, it seems that there is a trend that hate will solve the worlds problem, but it is understanding and respect that really matters. Yet, honour is difficult to find these days, there aren't enough raw models instead of the western plastic popstars and politicians with a hidden agenda.

But still, things aren't as black and white as they seem to be, or west and east for that matter. Alas, there is no denying that it's quite a black and white world, and that's one reason of the breeding of conflicts and disrepect. Religions are already used in politics even in the ancient ages. While they have a lot in common, they are often maimed for gaining power.

Personally, I don't believe that war is the solution to the problems. Afterall we live in a universe of possibilities and we know just a drip in a ocean. The problem arises when people like the way how things are now, and want to stay as it is in their seats of power. Tapping into the fears of the masses and using it, distorting truth and replacing it with confusion, letting people fight other people while reaping the profits. If I look it this way, understanding still is the key, but that's my opinion. Just like that the war started millenia ago, and never stopped, even if it's not at the surface.

The world is really how we make and perceive it.

About the fight communism propaganda, I found a interesting documentary about it a while ago.

http://brasschecktv.com/page/44.html

[gabe_ruckus 5]

Okay, I tried not to respond, but I feel compelled to.

It seems you'd like to lump all westerners in one big group, but one of the most awesome things about a free society is how homogeneous it isn't. You had some run ins with the ugly American tourist, and that sucks. Being rude isn't a uniquely American quality, though, and remember meeting rude Germans, French, Poles, Czechs, Swedes, and all sorts of others in the time I spent overseas. Fortunately, these people were a minority and there weren't enough of them to base an opinion of a whole culture on.

And don't think for a minute that all Americans are rich capitalist overlords. We have poor people just like any other country, but unlike the USSR, those poor people can go to school based on merit, or get student loans, or get sponsored to pay for classes and succeed. Those poor people can join the military and work towards a real retirement. I myself have stolen food, taken handouts, and begged for money. I've been so poor that I qualified for state-run insurance. But I work, and now I've got a nice 3 bedroom apartment for my family. It didn't happen quickly, but I worked for years towards this, and now that I have it, no state can come and move me, change my job, or tell me that it's more important for somebody else to live here. I don't have to wait in a bread line, I can just go to the grocery store and buy what I need. I can even go out for dinner once in a while without worrying about bills or my grocery budget.

It's not perfect, and there needs to be some changes in our education and healthcare systems, but being successful without being entitled to anything makes that success so much sweeter.

We are free to be poor, free to be unemployed, and free to be uneducated. But we are also free to succeed however we want to, if we choose to.

/rant

[jakerod 254]

@Vilas

There's nothing wrong with MacGyver. And I am sorry that some of my countrymen are idiots. I assure you that I know many people who would not have acted the way they did.

It's not perfect, and there needs to be some changes in our education and healthcare systems...

I agree with that statement. There definitely needs to be changes in the educational system for people living in low wealth areas. With the kinds of education their kids get and the types of attitudes their parents commonly have it will be damn hard for the kids to escape poverty. There are some though who can succeed.

[RaXz 0]

More can succeed if they take that good quote in your signature at heart. :)

[vilas 477]

the one thing we now now - the more education about world around - the less terrorism and conflicts

the more knowledge, the less people thinking "man from that country is walking evil"

whole cold war was basing on "behind that border all is evil"

now we have internet, change our ideas - something like that was impossible in past

people were lied by politics and could not change ideas, see something more

i hope that when poor Afghan villages will get such possibilities, they will find that world around is not "evil"

to fight terrorism, wars - we must fight lack of knowledge about how people live

and concerning communism fall : in past we really believed (were fed by opposition propaganda) that americans live like Dynasty (Carrington)

"there will come freedom and we will get Mercedes"

noone believed "homeless people in USA ? impossible, all got color-TV and car "

We are free to be poor, free to be unemployed, and free to be uneducated

than i f*** such kind of freedom, you know ?

in geography i learned about different countries, in history i learned about US, i wonder what people in US learned about for example XVIII, XIX century in Europe

cause i was taught about Washington, Lincoln, slavery, colonies

Edited November 7, 2009 by vilas

[riffleman 20]

Talk about topics of this thread genleman.

[derk yall 0]

... but unlike the USSR, those poor people can go to school based on merit, or get student loans, or get sponsored to pay for classes and succeed. Those poor people can join the military and work towards a real retirement. I myself have stolen food, taken handouts, and begged for money. I've been so poor that I qualified for state-run insurance. But I work, and now I've got a nice 3 bedroom apartment for my family. It didn't happen quickly, but I worked for years towards this, and now that I have it, no state can come and move me, change my job, or tell me that it's more important for somebody else to live here. I don't have to wait in a bread line, I can just go to the grocery store and buy what I need. I can even go out for dinner once in a while without worrying about bills or my grocery budget.

It's not perfect, and there needs to be some changes in our education and healthcare systems, but being successful without being entitled to anything makes that success so much sweeter.

We are free to be poor, free to be unemployed, and free to be uneducated. But we are also free to succeed however we want to, if we choose to.

/rant

Eh, sorry but when there was socialism every people had free school, there werent unemployed people and the state gived free houses. After the velvet revolution in 1989 the "west" infact destroyed our economy because they doesnt wanted concurence in these countries.

Also to corect some mistaes, yes sometimes there were lines for food or thing like toilet paper (happened only once, the factory burned and the west didnt wanted to send it to us). but it wasnt all the time only in ocasions.

No state canged your job, no-one told you to change you location of living etc. Also the people had money without debs or bills. If you hade no work the state offered you one. If you had been injured the state gave you a free threatment. You could suceed.

It sure that it wasnt ideal and there were also bad think like political prosecution, but these same thing happened also on the west.

East != USSR

West != USA

Capitalism != democracy

Communist != dictatorship

Capitalism, communism etc. are economical ways, so they cant be compared to the way the countries are ruled (democracy, dictatorship, )

[joey_45 0]

...i remember many US propaganda movies, all those James Bonds....

James Bond is or was British...

Just remember that America has never had an Empire...

[vilas 477]

... but unlike the USSR, those poor people can go to school based on merit, or get student loans

and this is total bullshit

heh

in USSR all things like that were FREE OF CHARGE

your knowledge about our countries is totally upside down man , heh,

but for example maybe instead of american movies about soldiers fighting other nations, such programs like "house rebuild" can build better view in such pro-talib countries ?

good idea of helping each other (program about house rebuild and people helping each other) is better than "Generation Kill"

to not have another terrorist actions, "west" should change some building it's view

less Rambo or Top-Guns, more "total rebuild" in Discovery ?

such movies build good view on people there

or movies with Steven Seagal fighting for environment against rich < those too

such showing better side will build better view and if this topic was about "east vs west and terrorist acts"

[Student Pilot 0]

in USSR all things like that were FREE OF CHARGE

As any economist would say, "there is no free lunch."

Interesting how the first comment in a thread about terrorism was a long-winded cry session about religion and the western way of life.

Terrorism is not about any of this, gentlemen. Terrorism is about enslaving populations with fear and using a certain ideology to control people. Terrorism can use communism, religion, atheism, capitalism, democracy, anarchy, ect to accomplish its goals. Anyone who thinks the majority of terrorist leaders actually believe what they spout are delusional. This is about power, first and foremost.

So, getting back to the topic at hand, I think it is appropriate to remember this attack on India. India, just like to many nations in this world, have seen the ugly head of fanatical terrorism. Hopefully someday in the future this threat will be eliminated and we can deal with our differences as adults. In the meantime, our people must sadly put on the weapons of war and defend our interests as free people.

-Student Pilot

[Hans Ludwig 0]

in USSR all things like that were FREE OF CHARGE

That didn't turn out so great for the USSR did it? Welcome to the real world were everything is finite and non renewable. How does a country afford to put people through free schooling? They tax a business and individual - heavily. How did you think they were able to build the schools, pay the teachers, print the school books, pay the electricity?

The problem you are facing is that you have no basic understanding of Economics. You truly believe money grows on trees.

[derk yall 0]

Well in the current system it is that:

The school are free -> the children are educated -> the children grew into adults and start working -> the adults pay taxes -> from the taxes people have granted asurance when they are old -> again...

About the money growing on the trees. You know that it isnt so far from reality? Only the trees are replaced by bills and there you have growing money from nowhere wich isnt payable.:)

[Student Pilot 0]

Yes, and those bills will become worthless very fast due to inflation. I fear we might see some brutal inflation here in America if the Fed doesn't start raising interest rates very soon.

[derk yall 0]

Sorry in that I meaned "debt" not bills. bad translations.

[Student Pilot 0]

Ohh, I see. Bill as in "I have to pay a bill". Gotcha.

Though for a government, in reality, the two mean the same thing. Can't pay your bill? Print more money!

Why every government tries this failed strategy is beyond me. And these are the same people who we want to run our schools and hospitals.

-Student Pilot

[derk yall 0]

I think that they folow this way because the economical system is done that way. It(s the FED with set it up in the early 20ties?(not realy sure) but I think, that if some country would try a new economical model, there is the possibility that the other countries will affect, that the new model fail, because if the country is small it can be easy bringed down by the exchange money rate, because the new system would be non-alowed by bigest countries. So if there must be a change for a new country it I think only on the USA, but there is FED wich will not alow this at all.

It must be s strong country, both in economy and influence, otherwise it hase no change.

[vilas 477]

Interesting how the first comment in a thread about terrorism was a long-winded cry session about religion and the western way of life.

Terrorism is not about any of this, gentlemen. Terrorism is about enslaving populations with fear and using a certain ideology to control people.

bullshit

thats why you westernians are surprised by terrorism :/

you don't understand basic things

OF COURSE IT IS BECAUSE OF THIS

someone's religion tells him "other man must worship my god" so he plants bomb and kill

"you like my god or die"

and economy "he has more because of my oil, so i will kill him"

Student Pilot - i am really surprised you don't understand BASIC things in life

like every "result" comes from "reason"

if for example country A invaded country B , and in 50 years people from B will put bomb in A , you will be surprised too ?

i my god, american way of though is for me totally out of logic

terrorism comes from:

- religions in world (as wars since many thousands years)

- economy - because people of some group (social, national, economical) feel poor

so they will try hurt "rich", terrorism is some kind of revenge

look at Chechens : Russia tried to rule over Chechnya, so they put bombs under blocks of flats and many hundreds of Russians died

for me it is as simple as 2+2=4

when someone invaded something , than this invaded wants revenge

if someone stole something, than man robbed wants revenge

it is so natural that i am surprised you not understand

when both economical and religion reasons come together - we have terrorism and hate flow

if someone do not accept others way of life - he tries to destroy them

it is so easy, that i am surprised you see no connection between those facts

look at history , all uprisings and etc.

even look at 1789... French revolution

King abused people , people killed king , burned palace, destroyed Bastil prison - it was also some kind of terrorism than

and you see no connection between way of life between 2 groups of people ?

than in France in 1789 king was someone whose money spendings were not acceptable

it is basic

other example are Bolshevik revolution - people of Russia were abused by Tsar power, so they destroyed all with this

terrorism is because someone has not good conditions and nothing to loose

rich man has a lot to loose, man loved by woman has a lot to loose

poor people who see no future have nothing to loose

it is basic

the same to the religion, primitive people act aggressive when you not show "love" to their god

i live among catholics and some times i felt not nice moments because i am atheist

claims that i don't want to pray, kneel, cross

in school i had lower mark from Math because teacher worshiped our priest, and i was not going to religion, so every metalhead had poor degree from math, althought after this secondary school i finished University of Technology with very good marks

so i was not stupid, but orthodox-catholic teacher not liked few boys who had Metallica t-shirts

what could happen if this guy had a gun ? what happen if my friends would have gun ?

maybe even terrorist act ?

religion and way of life (rich vs poor) always is base for terror

[sparks50 0]

Well, you got it all figured out Vilas. I sure wish communism would come here so things would be "free of charge".

terrorism comes from:

- religions in world (as wars since many thousands years)

- economy - because people of some group (social, national, economical) feel poor

so they will try hurt "rich", terrorism is some kind of revenge

What about ETA? And IRA was about far more than religion.

Edited November 8, 2009 by sparks50

[Student Pilot 0]

Vilas, most terrorism has a lot of religion or economics involved in it because those issues are hot button topics for people all around the world. However, this does not mean terrorism is about those topics.

For example, if terrorist leaders in Palestine believe it is Allah's will to martyr themselves for Islam, which is what they tell their followers, then why don't they martyr themselves for the cause? The reason is they are NOT encouraging terrorism for religious reasons, they are encouraging it to gain power. Religion in this case is being bastardized to brain-wash many people into stupid actions.

As another example, the leaders of the Bolshevik revolution were in it for power as well. If they were so concerned about the collective good, then why did they live in wealth while the people of the Soviet Union lived in poverty? The leaders of the Bolshevik Revolution were in it for themselves and only used economics as the method for achieving power.

When it comes down to it, religion, economics, politics, ect are only methods of deluding the masses into giving the elite few power.

Does this mean religion, capitalism, and democracy are wrong? No, it only means they can be misused. I will say it again, any ideology can be bastardized into serving terrorism's purposes. This includes religion, capitalism, atheism, communism, and any other ideology you can think of.

You say I don't understand the basics of life, and I say you are blind to people's real intentions.

-Student Pilot

[vilas 477]

Well, you got it all figured out Vilas. I sure wish communism would come here so things would be "free of charge".[/qoute]

no, because than your "businessmen" "economic elite" "owners" would lost very much, that why they fought communism

they want have private jet, many cars...

while for man 1-2 cars are enough, not 10

but if grid owner wants have 100 cars , he treat workers bad to earn more and fights everyone who say "look, you can have more, because he has too much"

when you work hard and has no good conditions and you see someone who has many cars - don't you want to kill him ?

and when owner see "if i will treat people worse, i will get milion USD more, so i will treat them worse", look at example of Wallmart , i saw in TV program about it, how they treated workers, and i am surprised that in America when people have easy access to guns, noone shoot them

What about ETA? And IRA was about far more than religion.

okay i forget "independence" movements, yes it is third condition

terrorism comes from several reasons, to destroy terrorism, you must also destroy some of it's reasons

not only terrorists, cause one will die, two more will be born

You say I don't understand the basics of life, and I say you are blind to people's real intentions.

hmmm... StudentP, maybe you not understand "hate and revenge" ?

if for example my country would be invaded by other army - i would be terrorist too

if someone would kill my family i would take revenge, no matter of costs and if i had for example AK, RPG i would blow up in the air someone who hurt my family

is it not natural for you ?

the same comes for revolution, people lived in poverty, kings in luxury, so people wanted revenge

Edited November 8, 2009 by vilas

[sparks50 0]

You also forget people like the Unabomber etc, but I wont be wasting my time in this thread anymore.

Edited November 8, 2009 by sparks50

[Student Pilot 0]

when you work hard and has no good conditions and you see someone who has many cars - don't you want to kill him ?

and when owner see "if i will treat people worse, i will get milion USD more, so i will treat them worse", look at example of Wallmart , i saw in TV program about it, how they treated workers, and i am surprised that in America when people have easy access to guns, noone shoot them

Have you no concept of the free market? When I see someone with 10 cars, I don't think "damnit, I'm going to kill him because he has more than me!" I think "How can I earn enough money to be in his position?"

Oh, and another beautiful thing about free markets: if you don't like your employer, you can quit and find another! If the employer treats his employees like crap, they can collectively strike or find another job.

-Student Pilot

[vilas 477]

You also forget people like the Unabomber etc, but I wont be wasting my time in this thread anymore.

unabomber was cyco, right, was 1 man only, not connected to movements like Talibs or other movements

he was 1 man cyco , not movement

---------- Post added at 01:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 AM ----------

Oh, and another beautiful thing about free markets: if you don't like your employer, you can quit and find another! If the employer treats his employees like crap, they can collectively strike or find another job.

-Student Pilot

what if for example there is one-two cooperating concerns in some geographical region and people have no choice (and money to move and afford new flat in other city ?)

if you have 10-20 companies, you can choose

what when for example 20% unemployment (Poland in 2002, 2003, 2004) and you have no choice ?

cause few companies agreed to pay XXX not more ?

you go to company A- XXX Euro, you go to company B - the same payment, C, D... cause they had agreement ?

and you have to work for crap, cause you may loose home if not payed ?

there are places in world (third world) where for example big concern ABC is only employer and ... ooops

Edited November 8, 2009 by vilas