11/26

[Baff1 0]

Seems a bit of an oversimplified standpoint to me mate.

Rwanda's a very big place, their problems are somewhat more pronounced than just who operates a couple of diamond mines.

[riffleman 20]

Today whole india paying tribute to mumbai victum,you all talking about what think,

@Baff1 and Go0B

[Baff1 0]

There are articles about it on the news here today.

Pictures of the hotel burning.

I don't have any insights as to what happened there at all.

Intellectually I feel a historical bond towards the people of India, if I knew what their side was, I would wish to take it in this matter (and most others). I feel my nation owes an honour debt to that society.

But emotionally? It's just another bombing in a far off land. People I have no connection to, killing other people I have no connection to. It happens every day.

Was this a world event in India then, like 9/11, a spark that lights the fire that changes the world forever?

Has an angry giant been awoken that will leave path of flames in it's wake as it wanders around the world smiting it's enemies and settling old scores?

Or was this just another terrorist attack?

I don't get very excited by terrorist attacks. I've been around them all my life.

Edited November 26, 2009 by Baff1

[GoOB 0]

Seems a bit of an oversimplified standpoint to me mate.

Rwanda's a very big place, their problems are somewhat more pronounced than just who operates a couple of diamond mines.

I agree that the statement is perhaps simplified, far from all of Rwanda's and the rest of sub-saharan Africa's problems are related to exploitation of natural resources, the underlying conflicts are complex matters. But that doesn't change the fact that foreign interest, or rather the lack of demands from foreign interests on increased stability and or origin control makes the situation quite a bit worse. And in some instances, more or less funds and fuels continued madness and conflict. And bear in mind, DRC isn't the host of "a couple of diamond mines", it produces 80% of the worlds coltan, quite a bit of tin, cassiterite and even more gold... The proceeds from which are rarely seen by populace or even the government.

Foreign interest might not have been what started the conflict (unless we go down the road of taking history, and with that colonialism into account) but it is foreign interest that allows it to continue.

In any case - I must pose the same question as Baff1 did in regards to the Mumbai bombings, what did the Mumbai attack change? Will it change anything? Will the ongoing operations against the Taliban in Pakistan change things for the better when it comes to relations with India? I don't think so, but I do hope so.

[vilas 473]

concerning this bullshit from US how "bad" was "communism" and how "super freedom" america and problems prescribed in first pages of topic , back to 80's :

???

cenzorship and you were looking for "satan" in songs ???

hehehe

it was sick cenzorship , and you fought for "freedom" with USSR?

those commisions with even such funny guys playing light rock as Alice Cooper interrogated :(

[Takko 10]

Rob Halford was a communist, in my eyes

jail him!

But wait, he got released which wouldn't have

happened in some communist state.

Most people even in poland are happy that their old system

collapsed.

Capitalism hooray, sozialism is in the way!

Edited November 28, 2009 by Takko

[maturin 12]

concerning this bullshit from US how "bad" was "communism" and how "super freedom" america and problems prescribed in first pages of topic , back to 80's :

???

cenzorship and you were looking for "satan" in songs ???

hehehe

it was sick cenzorship , and you fought for "freedom" with USSR?

those commisions with even such funny guys playing light rock as Alice Cooper interrogated :(

Totally comparable to the Gulag, the purges, Katyn and starving half of Ukraine.

The people who went after domestic communists never did a good day's work in their lives. But if you want to bring up the "USA is bad too" subject, at least choose something credible, like massacring the population of Cambodia.

[tiket 0]

Latest news

"terror attack in pune"

first

bombblast after 26/11.

terrorist targets again western people.8 dead, several other injured.

3 foreigner died.

[echo1 0]

Totally comparable to the Gulag, the purges, Katyn and starving half of Ukraine.

This.

[chops 111]

Vilas, I'm curious to know if Poland had anything to do with the collapse of Communism in Poland. It seems to be your opinion that all the ills in Polish society today can be placed squarely at the feet of the United States.

From the little I know of recent Polish history, Lech Wałęsa and Solidarity had a lot to do with the end of communism in Poland.

[maturin 12]

Vilas, I'm curious to know if Poland had anything to do with the collapse of Communism in Poland. It seems to be your opinion that all the ills in Polish society today can be placed squarely at the feet of the United States.

From the little I know of recent Polish history, Lech Wałęsa and Solidarity had a lot to do with the end of communism in Poland.

As much as anyone could said to have done it, Poland killed Communism. There was nothing even close to Solidarity anywhere in Eastern Europe. When the proletariat is anti-Communist, you know something has gone wrong.

Of course, Gorbachev could have reversed course and stopped it, so I wonder if Vilas curses the Russians for not pouring tanks into the country and reducing Warsaw to ashes again.

[derk yall 0]

I dont know, everytime someone try to say that comunism wasnt as that bad as the western propaganda show, everytime he is pointed to that or that so-caled comunistic dictator did this and this to his own people, and when he is trying to counter-argue, he is shown again. This bring me to the idea.

Do you realy know what comunism is? I dont mean the so-caled comunism (it was infact socialism, and in some countries there were inhuman leader, but that happens all around the world, no mater politic directions) wich have been in the eastern bloc, but the real idea of it.

The problems in the former eastern bloc is, that people have been betrayed by someone who promised more liberty (havn't much happened), economic boost (infact it was destroyed) and many other things. Now they see that there were never a big diference betwen a western or eastern commoner, and many are feeling cheated. They have lost guaranted work, and state services, now when they work, they dont help the country economy, they work for a foreigner.

[maturin 12]

Do you realy know what comunism is? I dont mean the so-caled comunism (it was infact socialism, and in some countries there were inhuman leader, but that happens all around the world, no mater politic directions) wich have been in the eastern bloc, but the real idea of it.

The problems in the former eastern bloc is, that people have been betrayed by someone who promised more liberty (havn't much happened), economic boost (infact it was destroyed) and many other things. Now they see that there were never a big diference betwen a western or eastern commoner, and many are feeling cheated. They have lost guaranted work, and state services, now when they work, they dont help the country economy, they work for a foreigner.

Communism's (real existing socialism, whatever you want to call it) problem in E. Europe wasn't inhuman leaders. The system needed to be inhuman just to continue to exist because no one wanted it. The Poles voted against it. Marxist ideology was false in the region, because peasants and industrial workers didn't want it. A single tiny area had a Communist majority in polls during the prewar period.

Disregarding for a moment that the Czech standard of living has risen since 1989 and that you have always been working for foreigners without contributing to domestic development, resistance to Soviet rule was not economic. Your dissidents wanted human rights, and lived in very small one-room apartments (prison cells) because of that. So how was their economic status?

[derk yall 0]

I see, so you dont know what the idea of comunism is, and so continuing to discus it with you have no sense.

You have wrote that our standart of living have rised. You base that on what? Sure, there are some who live better now, but for many people things got even worse. And we havnt worked for foreigners, the owner was the state of Czechoslovakia -> whole people.

Sure I agree, that I would not want back the cold war era socialism. I'm for a regim with mixture of both socialism and capitalism, where the state will take care of people when they will get in trouble. Most notably, not alowing people to vote for comunism (or whatever legal political parties, and yes, the Comunistic party of Bohemia and Moravia is a legal party) would be insult of democracy. And to end this, comunism, like capitalism evolve, so the comunism of yesterday is not the one of today.

BTW: I'm not a communist, but my political ideals are minorely based on them.

[maturin 12]

I see, so you dont know what the idea of comunism is, and so continuing to discus it with you have no sense.

Yes I do, but it's probably time for you to tell me, since you're being rather cagey with it.

You have wrote that our standart of living have rised. You base that on what? Sure, there are some who live better now, but for many people things got even worse. And we havnt worked for foreigners, the owner was the state of Czechoslovakia -> whole people.

Living standards are quantifiable, so look it up. The owner of the state was the Communist Party, whose officials were drawn from a tiny cadre whose views and composition were not representative of the general population. You worked primarily to support the military-industrial complex of the Soviet Empire.

Sure I agree, that I would not want back the cold war era socialism. I'm for a regim with mixture of both socialism and capitalism, where the state will take care of people when they will get in trouble. Most notably, not alowing people to vote for comunism (or whatever legal political parties, and yes, the Comunistic party of Bohemia and Moravia is a legal party) would be insult of democracy. And to end this, comunism, like capitalism evolve, so the comunism of yesterday is not the one of today.

Stalinism is really nothing like the socialists and social democrats that got votes before the war. They're just both leftists, and I'm pretty far left myself.

Post-soviet politics are complicated and often depressing. There's no reason for the ex-bloc to still be full of neo-liberal Thatcherite economies (Vaclav Klaus is sort of a douche). But I think you needed shock therapy and a nasty recession to smash the fossilized state economy. You can't afford social policies without taking part in the world capitalist economy somehow. The soviets couldn't afford it even when they had their own closed-off empire covering 20% of the world's surface.

[vilas 473]

Derk Yall - they are simply ignorants, typical to westernians - they think they know best, and anyone except them knows nothing

in fact THEY know nothing

raised live level ???

let they fucking tell it to all homeless (not present before 1989), to people without medical care (not present before 1989) , to people who have no money for education and have to cease studies and go to work (not present before 1989) and many many many other things

let they tell it to those old grannies that worked whole life and now get pension that not allows to pay for flat and medicine

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=36123&page=184

no need to repeat it again about fall of communism

in fact all that changed is fact that ex-party members and ex-secret police - became now "businessmen"

many many businessmen have been officers of communist services, cause other people were not been given licenses to activity or were not getting taxes holidays or such like

Derk Yall - discussion with blind about colors gives you nothing, they watched their movies and think about our life here from their own movies , they have knowledge from Rambo, and all those other movies showing "brutal KGB officer prisoning people" which is ... maybe real but for 1950-1955 (Stalin and Bierut)

But I think you needed shock therapy and a nasty recession

we needed also AK to kill all rich fat pigs eating too much, because of which we have no flats , free of pay benefits we had

i don't know what would happen if over milion young Poles not left country when we joined EU

we had over 20 % of unemployment, people had no food, work, people worked 12-13 hours daily (instead of 8) for 200 euro and rich beasts were earning milions using people

if in 2004 milion of unemployed POles not escaped, we would have here another revolution, this time anti capitalistic

people want flat, holidays, medical care, safety streets and work 8 hours without stress

You worked primarily to support the military-industrial complex of the Soviet Empire.

bulshit

we had our manufacturers of all, now all is "made in China" and people have no job in industry, only shop assistans, security and etc.

people graduate technology, wanna be engineers (MSC) and have no job, cause almost no industry exist, a lot of 50+ years old people have no job, cause they are "useless", many economical suicides

those who caused this should be killed because of those who commited suicide because had no money

i am talking about 55 000 people that commited suicides since 1990 to 2002 (big unemployment and etc)

half of those were economical suicides

cause normally we have ca. 3500 in Poland, those days (90's) we had 5500 every year, one-third to half because of economical reasons

Police sources say 35-53.3 % because HAD NO MONEY AND JOB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yes in 1994 53.3 suicides were economical, nearly 3000 people !!!

one year 30 times more than all "martial law Jaruzelski" victims number

it means that ca. 20 000 Poles died because of capitalism, while in Martial law only 91 !!!!!!!!!

yes, 91 people lost life because of martial law since 1981 !!!

91 vs. 20 000 because of economical reasons in "free Poland"

in my block (4 floor, ca. 60 families) - 3 people committed suicides because they had no chances to work (50+, few years without work)

or young man who finished studies and were looking for ANY job more than year

in 2002 when i graduated - i had offers of no-payed (so called "voluntary") jobs, rich fat pig in Porshe Caeyne offered me no-payed job, cause "many graduators wanna to put anything in CV , if you not want i can get 10 people that will be thankful" i nearly spited into his fucking face

i would kill such fucker if i could, he has Porshe and he offer no-payed job, cause over 3 000 000 Poles (over 20% of working age) had no job and people were doing anything to get "experience in CV"

many people now live with parents cause have no money to hire flat

if you earn 1500-2000 ZL and you would have to pay 1200-1400 ZL for small 20-30 sqare meters flat... how will you eat and etc ???

i know many families living in followin conditions : parents one room, he and his wife and kid - second room !!!

i know families living 5-6 persons on 40-50 meters flat, that work 10-12 hours daily and having 15 years old car :/

in Poland we have very very very strict gun law if we had US law, probably you would soon seen some "business leaders" and "lawyers" and "politicians" laying in blood

and Lech Walesa - by many old Solidarity members is treated as traitor, cause old communist leaders changed "political" power into "economical" power and thanx to him avoided any justice repay, also he changed economical reasons(for fighters in 1980) upside down

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1565930&postcount=1847

1980 - it was trade union movement that wanted more free time and more benefits, not what we gained later

all 1980 ideals were betrayed

noone of communist violators was revenged, noone payed price

economical benefits and trade union arguments were twisted into "homeless" "suicides" and etc.

Edited February 14, 2010 by vilas

[maturin 12]

You really have some nerve, complaining about crime and suicide. Don't you remember why people died in the old system? The government killed them so you could have your free vacations.

Your society was already full of the supposed worst elements of capitalism: the unlucky ones are brutalized, oppressed and murdered so the rest can live comfortably. And really, I suppose the millions who have seen the insides of Soviet jails and labor camps have it better than today's poor. They weren't technically homeless, after all. And if you think that it was only the Russians doing that, your own system relied on the constant threat of Soviet tanks in order to function.

Your '91' number makes me laugh. Tell it to the 1000 Romanians gunned down by Ceausescu's secret services in 1989.

[derk yall 0]

But,

Poland is not Soviet Rusia

Poland is not Romania

The comparision of deaths in crimes by the state of particaluar country, cannot be passed also on the another, becausee it had the same political system.

About the homeless Vilas, mean that before, when you had not a flat, the state provided you a flat and a job. Not that they were sent into working camps.

[-Snafu- 77]

Derk Yall - they are simply ignorants, typical to westernians - they think they know best, and anyone except them knows nothing

in fact THEY know nothing

How can you call us "westerners" ignorant when you paint us "westerners" with one big brush?

You, sir, are the one who is ignorant.

[vilas 473]

Snafu - than look back at many opinions here about way we had lived

if i was living like they say - my parents would be slaves and prisoned

but none of my family ever been to any work-camp, prison etc. although they were Solidarity activists and noone in my family was member of PZPR (communist party) we get flat , i was on free holidays from mom-job etc.

i see many opinions about way we lived and about what my neighbors think , opinions from very far away from here

how the hell someone in other country knows better than me how we live , ha ?

or in other topic they said most of my countrymen are more wise than me , cause i say about wrong things that appeared after 1989

so if you say "we have poverty" means "you are stupid" ???

no, they watch some Rambo-like or spy-story movies and they say about how we had lived here

of course my mother suffered from economical violence because of her activity (told in linked posts above)

but "taking away chance for free flat" and "not have money to afford buy flat" is equal in effect

like my mother say "previously there was no toilet paper in stores, now people have no money for toilet paper, effect is the same , dirt on ass"

why i say ignorants ? cause no matter i said 100 times how we lived - i still hear the same "you are stupid, you were in prison"

and if i say something about US i am not taking it from USSR movies, but from US movies/TV shows (believing that native made it real)

but they take their knowledge from opposite side movies, so it must be twisted, taking knowledge about way we lived here from non-our movies is somekind of ignorance

cause it is like taking knowledge about company X products from company Y (competition) sale manager

we really were not in whole time prison pressure mass shooting system, really

we lived in so called "socialism" which in many cases had less benefits than Sweden, France or German had (level of hospital equipment, level of flat look etc)

but believe me - than noone afraid to call for ambulance, now you may pay 200 ZL (compare it to lowest 800-1000 pension of retired granny) if they say "not rightful calling" or if it will come... my mother waited almost hour till... they told "ooo maybe nothing happened, take it easy"

and ambulance came, when i told where i work on telephone and what i will do to them if ambulance will not hurry

she almost had a stroke , there were stroke-like symptoms but ambulance not cared till i started threatening them responsibility and than ambulance came and they found "ooops she need immediate hospitalization"

in "evil prison dictatorship" this ambulance would be here in 5 minutes and noone would say "is it really necessary, take it easy" "but if nothing happened you can be sued/fee"

Edited February 14, 2010 by vilas

[maturin 12]

But,

Poland is not Soviet Rusia

Poland is not Romania

The comparision of deaths in crimes by the state of particaluar country, cannot be passed also on the another, becausee it had the same political system.

Poland didn't share a political system with Romania and the USSR, it was incorporated in a political unit and economic structure. British Imperialists were slaughtering Africans while Canada was quite peaceful. Stalinist policies were notoriously uniform even in very different countries, and the leadership of all bloc countries were the rarefied survivors the war and purges. There's not really such a thing as Polish Communism, only Communists who were Polish. The system was unitary, at least vastly more so than the diverse governmental systems and economies of modern Western countries. Vilas isn't talking about just Poland, he's trashing the entire system that the U.S. and other states run on.

But if you want lots of nice murders in Poland, how about Katyn? The USSR supported the United Nations legislation on genocide because it excluded killing on the basis of class.

[vilas 473]

he's trashing the entire system that the U.S. and other states run on

than you not see how many times i praise France, Germany, Sweden etc.

you think U.S. is only way in the world ?

if by "other" countries you meant U.S. and some most liberal (economy) states of South America or Chile from Pinochet era, or African/Asian "third world" countries - than i am against they way they run

but world is bigger, U.S. is just 3-4% of world population, 97-96% left

and system shown in "Sicko" movie is for sure to trash :]

or in other movies like "Insider, The" , simply i think that money and profit of company/lobby cannot stand over people good interest

i believe that palace, golf field, private jet of one man, cannot cause harm to 10 000 other people

or maybe you say that "Sicko" is false ?

all those 70s/80s movies about "bike gangs" and "man get to another city and sherif makes him problems cause he is not born here" movies are lies ???

i watched many many many USA movies (not only Rambo, Predator) looking at society background

i remember old document , from 90s, it was document of people beheaded by trucks trailers

problem in this document was following:

families of people that died in accidents (cars gilotined by trailers turning on road) wanted to force regulation that pushes must to put bumpers on sides of semitrailes

U.S. busines transportation owners said "it will cost a lot of money to equipe semitrailers, it is NOWHERE IN THE WORLD, nonsense"

compare yourself:

http://www.infovisual.info/05/img_en/020%20Semitrailer.jpg

US semiltrailer and repeat what they told "it is nowhere present in the world cause it would cost too much money"

http://amktrucks.pl/var/plain_site/storage/images/galeria/ciagniki-siodlowe/man-z-naczepa-wywrotka/2278-1-pol-PL/MAN-z-naczepa-wywrotka.jpg

European semitrailer, "nowhere in the world ", almost no people beheaded by turning semitrailers under which car gets

do you know how many people would be alive if those owners not lied ?

nowhere in the world ? or maybe "only in U.S.A" ?

why i know about this issue ? cause i am "transportation vehicles engineer" by university and i know this and some railway problems also

you believe that if someone cryticize U.S. regulations he trashes whole world ?

U.S. not means "whole globe" ? do you think that low employee rights (easy to fire) and lack of free medical care is only way to live ?

by 2007 "Sicko" movie and by semitrailers bumpers issue, maybe you will see metaphore, that "world goes other way"

you may call Sicko (or this Columbine massacre movie) creator like you want (or prove that Sicko is a LIE) , but this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIjpP-XngKA

? about guy who afraid to speak cause he will loose insurance and school for kids ?

for us it was not a problem in past, cause everyone had free education and medical care and such guy would not afraid to loose doctor and school of his kids

but i heard many many good things about Sweden (probably most friendly country for human/worker), Germany, France, Canada - as i have family in Canada, Germany, Russia, Belarus

i have idea about Finland or Norway or Swiss or Spain or Italy or Austria, but even in NZ i heard about low cost medicine for "seniors"

i know that Czechs have benefits from communism fall and probably they are the only nation that really benefited system changes as whole society

if i was living in Czech republic and earning 800-1000 Euro without problems with job i would say other things, but i live in place when we get "worst" of "transformation" effects and our budget money go to senseless US war in Iraq instead of spend those taxes on building free flats or better hospitals

a lot of money simply "exploded"

it is funny in games, it is disgusting in real life (in Kambodja, Vietnam US probably killed 2-3 milions people + 200 000 Iraqis - if you wanna say about genocides , Katyn and USSR and etc.

Savator Allende 1973 and CIA operations , Pinochet, Noriega, Marcos suported and etc. )

and really here 20 000 people commited suicides for economical reasons (Police stats) because of Jefrey Sachs, Soros and some "world found leaders" is not good way to follow

Edited February 15, 2010 by vilas

[riffleman 20]

The only western women died in pune blast name is nadia and she was from italy .

[derk yall 0]

Vilas: In fact the payment people receive is about smaller, about 300 - 400 euro. The 800 - 1000 euro if from aritmetical payment, wich is calculated from salaries of a bussiness men, comoners, rich etc.

[vilas 473]

than in Poland "offcial" average (aritmetical statistical value from whole country including rich, members of parliament, officers, directors, etc.) is 3000 brutto/gross (2300 to hand - equal 550 EU)

while most common value according to stats is 2100 PLN brutto/gross (1400 to hand, equal 350 EU)

it shows how big is difference between "real mediana value" and "aritmetical statistical value", it shows how big are differences between 60% of people and some 5% earning most of money

"minimal money value" prescribed by the law is 200 EU to hand and officialy 5% but many people are cheated on money and for example part-time deals

in regions where there is big unemployment people earn less, cause "if you not want i will take another one" or migrate to big cities or UK

Edited February 15, 2010 by vilas