Nvidia in trouble?

[Baker65 0]

Nvidia kills GTX285, GTX275, GTX260, abandons the mid and high end market

Provided by: Semiaccurate

http://www.3dgameman.com/news/2009/10/06/nvidia-kills-gtx285-gtx275-gtx260-abandons-mid-and-high-end-market

NVIDIA IS KILLING the GTX260, GTX275, and GTX285 with the GTX295 almost assured to follow as Nvidia abandons the high and mid range graphics card market. Due to a massive series of engineering failures, nearly all of the company's product line is financially under water, and mismanagement seems to be killing the company.

Not even an hour after we laid out the financial woes surrounding the Nvidia GTX275 and GTX260, word reached us that they are dead. Normally, this would be an update to the original article, but this news has enough dire implications that it needs its own story. Nvidia is in desperate shape, whoop-ass has turned to ash, and the wagons can't be circled any tighter.

Word from sources deep in the bowels of 2701 San Tomas Expressway tell us that the OEMs have been notified that the GTX285 is EOL'd, the GTX260 is EOL in November or December depending on a few extraneous issues, and the GTX275 will be EOL'd within 2 weeks. I would expect this to happen around the time ATI launches their Juniper based boards, so before October 22.

The lone survivor, maybe, is the GTX295, available only as a complete board from Nvidia. This is said to be almost impossible to get, likely for reasons we went into in the earlier financial article, cost. AIBs do not expect this product to last very long, likely until current stock is depleted.

Basically, engineering failure after engineering failure has left Nvidia without a high end part, they are left waving shells while trying desperately to convince the loyal press that it is real. While that is a problem for the future, the current concern is that they have nothing that can compete with the ATI's Evergreen line, HD5870, HD5850, and the upcoming Junipers.

The G200b based parts can compete on performance, but not at a profit, so they are going to die. Nvidia was booted out of the high end market, and are now abandoning the mid range in a humbling retreat. Expect a similar backpedaling from the rest in January when Cedar and Redwood come out.

There are no half or quarter Fermi derivatives taped out yet, so at a bare minimum, Nvidia has nothing for 2 more quarters. To make matters worse, due to the obscene 530++mm^2 die size on TSMC's 40nm process, Fermi is almost twice the size of its competitor, Cypress/HD5870/HD5850. A cut down half version would cost less but still be barely competitive with Juniper. That chip would once again be vastly larger and more expensive than the ATI equivalents, and that is before board costs are examined. As the product stack waterfalls down, the ratios remain the same, Nvidia cannot be cost competitive for the Evergreen vs Fermi generation, period.

Massive engineering failures and cover-ups, starting with Bumpgate, have defined the company for the last two years. More recently, this includes the G212 failure, G214 fiasco and failure, now morphed into the G215 which is 3Q late so far, if it can ever be made profitably, and the G216 and G218 with the broken GDDR5 controllers. One or two failures are understandable, this many is flat out mismanagement.

As we have been saying all along, there is no savior chip, no plan B, they all failed. Nvidia can make chips and sell them at a loss, or retreat from those markets and lose less money. The only question now is whether or not they can fix their engineering problems and get competitive parts out before they run out of cash. Given that the earliest that this can happen is next summer, it will be very touch and go.

Nvidia has alienated anyone who could be their friend, spawned needless lawsuits that very likely drive the company to a net negative value, and failed to sell the company while it still had a perception of worth. If you ask them, Nvidia will tell you that it is boldly turning itself into a vibrant GPU compute and cell phone chip giant. Should you want to remain in their good graces, this is not to be perceived as an exit strategy.

With the cancellation of the GTX285, GTX275, and GTX260, possibly the GTX295 too, Nvidia is abandoning the entire high end and mid-range graphics market. Expect a reprise in January on the low end. The company is badly mismanaged and hated by the very partners they need to throw them a life preserver.

The only thing that can save them now is a wholesale replacement of top management. Sadly, the only people with enough shareholder leverage to do so are those very managers that need to go, so that is very unlikely. Unless there is a white knight or buyer in the wings, it is game over. At $1/year, Jen-Hsun is overpaid.

[ICE-Raver 10]

Consider the source. Charlie is an anti-Nvidia pro ATI posterboy.

Nvidia does not abandon mid and high end market

Many reading this may have heard of newshound Charlie Demerjian who was a writer on well known UK news 'gossip' site The Inquirer. For the last few years the majority of his news articles have focused exclusively on Nvidia, detailing their apparent wrongdoings and failures in a variety of areas.

Today I received a few emails from our readers asking if I knew anything about this article on his interestingly entitled site Semi Accurate.

In this diatribe Charlie writes "NVIDIA IS KILLING the GTX260, GTX275, and GTX285 with the GTX295 almost assured to follow as it (Nvidia: NVDA) abandons the high and mid range graphics card market. Due to a massive series of engineering failures, nearly all of the company's product line is financially under water, and mismanagement seems to be killing the company."

Charlie also goes on to say : "With the cancellation of the GTX285, GTX275, and GTX260, possibly the GTX295 too, Nvidia is abandoning the entire high end and mid-range graphics market. Expect a reprise in January on the low end. The company is badly mismanaged and hated by the very partners it needs to throw it a life preserver."

These are obviously rather bold claims indeed and I decided to give Nvidia a call this afternoon to get their feedback on the aforementioned claims. An Nvidia spokesperson told me "There is no truth to this. Charlie has become a sponsored site of his sole advertiser. Look at his website it looks like an AMD ad." Nvidia also assured me with a chuckle that they are not 'abandoning the mid or high end markets'.

Obviously every company can put a 'spin' on anything they feel is relevant so I decided to call a few of Nvidia's partners to get their feedback on supply and demand - a few of them said they have quite low supplies of GTX285 and GTX295. This however can not be simply interpreted as a 'worrying' issue for Nvidia users because as many of our readers will know they actually have a new range of cards out very shortly to compete against the current range of DX11 boards from AMD - therefore it makes sense for them to start putting all of their focus into the upcoming range of hardware.

In industry circles it is very apparent that Charlie is venomously 'anti Nvidia' however I think we can safely assume that Nvidia won't be abandoning the mid or high end market anytime soon. As for the fate of the current range of cards, many leading UK stores such as Overclockers and Ebuyer have reasonably healthy supplies of the current Nvidia range - actually much on a par with ATI.

Allan Campbell - Heaven Media

Read more: http://www.driverhea...l#ixzz0TMNcNJQz

[Baker65 0]

I agree and did consider the source. Thought I'd throw it out there for discussion/consideration.

I'm a lifelong fan of Nvidia products.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Yeah, that's a serious stretch.

[echo1 0]

Provided by: Semiaccurate

I stopped reading after that line. I suggest the rest of you do likewise.

[jw custom 56]

I stopped reading after that line. I suggest the rest of you do likewise.

LOL didn't notice that :p

[Heatseeker 0]

Obvious hater (article writer) been bashing nvidia for years now.. i dont know how someone like him even has the credibility to spread a rumour.

I think he's just excited for finally seeing ati release a better product (its been a while and he better enjoy it while it lasts).

Nvidia has been dominating the market for years, now its ATi's turn.. same old crap.

[bangtail 0]

Demerijian < Journalist

That would entail some measure of objectivity and not mindless ATI fanboyism.

Eth

[Monkwarrior 0]

There is a nice word for this on the internet.

It's called FUD.

Monk.

[kavoven 4]

I'm a lifelong fan of Nvidia products.

Me, too. I was quite shocked after reading the first article since I really do not want to switch to ATI, but after reading the rest I relaxed again :)

[Guest]

The guy who wrote the original article is a silly man.

Sure, i won an ATI, but if someone offered me a GTX 285 i wouldn't turn it down. O personally prefer ATI due to the very good price:performance ratio, but Nvidia also make very good cards!

[echo1 0]

I'm a lifelong fan of Nvidia products.

I never really got people who have brand preferences for things like graphics cards. I mean, the thing with graphics cards is that they are basically the same thing, except one year, one company is slightly better, the next the other.

[no use for a name 0]

I've never been a fanboy for one or the other; but I always stuck with Nvidia because most games I play are more optimized for them, plus I know the CP and tweaks to get them running tip-top. But if they don't get their shit together and stop screwing over their customers with their shennanigans then they can stick it up their arses.

The tactics they use just to sell a few more cards like falsifying reports, disabling Nvidia/ATI combos, and re-branding old cards is getting out of hand.

oh yeah, there's also this: http://techreport.com/discussions.x/17717

[echo1 0]

Likewise, I've never owned an ATI graphics card. The main reason I'd stick to nVidia nowadays is because of the better quality drivers for Linux, which is an important consideration for me. Whenever ATI's Linux drivers catch up, I'll probably have less of a preference.

[Sertorius21 10]

Considering that AMD is flirting with bankruptcy, I'd think now would be a really strange time to announce Nvidia's death.

Edit: Also, while 2009 is going to be a doozy for virtually any company, between 2007 and 2008 Nvidia posted a 37% increase in profits.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Sertorius21

[Gedis 0]

I want 3dfx back, they were soooo ahead of their time back then, before nvidia eat them financialy.

[kavoven 4]

Likewise, I've never owned an ATI graphics card. The main reason I'd stick to nVidia nowadays is because of the better quality drivers for Linux, which is an important consideration for me. Whenever ATI's Linux drivers catch up, I'll probably have less of a preference.

I once owned an ATI and they never got their drivers right, I had soooo many problems with them. NVIDIA is just one click and the damn thing is installed :)

[maddogx 13]

I once owned an ATI and they never got their drivers right, I had soooo many problems with them. NVIDIA is just one click and the damn thing is installed :)

I've owned a variety of different NVidia and ATI cards in my time and I can say that both brands have had their share of driver problems. NVidia especially have problems with broken/non-working config options. These are often fixed in later driver versions but new problems always seem to pop up.

[kavoven 4]

Well I'm not that into adjusting drivers and so on... I install them and never touch them again...=)

[maddogx 13]

Well I'm not that into adjusting drivers and so on... I install them and never touch them again...=)

Well, I guess my main problems with the drivers were usually TV related, which doesn't affect everyone. I've always been using my computers as media centers, so it's important to me that I can hook them up to my TV without issue. With some gfx cards this was no problem, you just plug it in, extend the desktop and it works. With others you run into major problems.

My ATI HD4850 often caused BSODs when watching movies on the secondary screen (i.e. the TV). This was a fairly common problem, people complained about it on the AMD forums but after 3 or 4 driver versions there was still no fix. Older NVidia cards simply refused to accept that I'm using PAL TVs and kept resetting themselves to NTSC. Sometimes the display size adjustment didn't work either.

Recently I've run into driver problems with my new HTPC for the living room. Newer driver versions won't recognize my TV at all, so I had to roll back to an older version that worked.

I don't think I've ever seen a driver from either NVidia or ATI that worked 100% flawlessly.

[InFireBaptize 0]

i don't think the above article is completely off the wall as a simple Google search yielded the following:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/248973-33-nvidia-trouble

[von_paulus 0]

i don't think the above article is completely off the wall as a simple Google search yielded the following:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/248973-33-nvidia-trouble

That link is a bit old, InFire. :p

[InFireBaptize 0]

That link is a bit old, InFire. :p

:391: didn't see that but anyway if you search you will find more recent news, not that i'm happy with ATI anyway.

[Baker65 0]

I never really got people who have brand preferences for things like graphics cards. I mean, the thing with graphics cards is that they are basically the same thing, except one year, one company is slightly better, the next the other.

It's due to stability mostly and the number of companies that wrote their code to work with Nvidia products. If Nvidia starts to suck, then I'm gone for sure.

[no use for a name 0]

more bad news:

"Apple drops Nvidia Support":

http://www.memorybits.co.uk/blogbits/apple-drops-nvidia-support-for-3-4-years/

"Intel suits halt development of future Nvidia chipsets"

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/10/08/intel_suit_halts_development_of_future_nvidia_chipsets.html

http://www.glgroup.com/News/Even-2-D-Users-Will-Miss-Nvidias-Integrated-3-D-Graphics-on-Core-i3-i5-Systems-44015.html

damn it! So much for cheap ATI boards when there's little to no competition