Dragon Rising has been released

[msy 22]

Ok guys Im going to give you a good comparison of games. I'm not a fanboy of either of these games. I like them both, they both have problems. But Im just glad we still get these games on PC at this time. So I enjoy them for what they are. If you wanna be a fanboy of 1 game go ahead. But both games have strong points, and bad ones. Get over that ok? Ok now with the comparisons.

Arma graphics are better. But OFP are not really that bad. But OFP actually runs on your computer. And most of us dumb down ARMA II to OFP standards to actually play it anyway.

Arma Vehicles are 100 times better to control. No head movement in OFP. The vehicle system control is really sad.

When you fire in Arma you have to control the gun, in OFP2 its auto level.

OFP AI is better, for instance the AI in OFP wont kill you from 2 miles away. And if you make a noise 5 miles away they won't know where you are instantly. the battles are actually fun in OFP, while in ARMA II against the AI its usually instant death for the player.

Close quarter battles are possible in OFP not in Arma II. For instance can you tell your guys to clear a house in ARMAII.. NO well you can in OFP.

The command system in ARMA II is so much better. maybe its just because Im so use to it, but I really dislike the OFP version.. Its hard to get use too really.

OFP and ARMA editor are about the same really. Even though OFP is a little more complex in some areas, OFP has a 60 unit limit. While Arma HAS NONE. OFP editor is outside the game, but you can still test misisons like in ArmaII it just takes about 20 seconds to load the game with the In mission launcher.

OFP wound system is better, and the immersion of inf battle is a lot better. Again this is because the AI is not Super Human and can hit you in 1 shot. But the effects of gun bullets near misses is far better in OFP.

OFP has a gore system that surpases ARMAII if thats your thing. Hit someone in the head and they might fall to the ground with half a head missing and brain coming out. Or you might just blow it totally off. (its random) Limbs can fly off. And if you get hit with a massive strike you can basically be turned into gibs. Its pretty intense in OFP when your soldier next too you gets shot in the head and his blood spatters into your screen

I have seen the AI In OFP fall to the ground and cry. Put thier hands over thier head and rock back and forth and start mumbling things like this can't be happning. I have seen this in both USMC and Chinese. Don't see this in ARMAII.

When soldiers get wounded in ARMA II they get back up and its nothing after a few seconds. If your wounded in OFP or an AI is they fall to the ground and move around and wiggle. Then die if you don't fix them up soon enough. I know ARMA II has a simular system but OFP is much better really.

OFP campaign though shorter actually works and you do not pull your hair out like the thing in ARMA II.

Multi Player on both is about the same really. Both have issues. If they both worked right all the time then ARMA would beat it with the Huge world you can play in. In OFP you are confined to a box within the island for multilayer.

Gun selection in ARMA II is way better. In the effect that you can choose your weapon in ARMA II and in OFP you can't.

OFP has thermal imaging in tanks and guns which is tons better the ARMAII.

OFP has actual balistic and vulnerability on vehicles while ARMA II still uses a Hit point system. (we are talking vanalla here clowns)

Arma II is more realistic in its inf modes with a compass and everything. While OFP has a hud system and waypoint markers. The hardcore mode deletes this in OFP and gets rid of the save system also. Which truely makes it HARDCORE.

Hope that helps. You should push aside the bullcrap and just understand OFP is not ARMA II. ARMA II is unique and only Behomia can make the true OFP sequel which you are all playing now.

OFP2 is an attempt at something a little different. And yes it was DUMBED down for the consoles. Prey that ARMA never goes this route! PREY!

WAIT WAIT WAIT

You said what? OFP? The one from 2001?

Come on, the new game is OFP: DR, not OFP

[bangtail 0]

I keep hearing this but haven't found it to be the case at all. Usually Ai doesn't engage me from 1000m or whatever and when they do, I usually see the ground being hit next to me or some sort of debris from the shot telling me to get cover quick. In MP, Im sniped far more often so I'd rather have the AI be on the harder side of thing then total impotent shooters.

I've never seen this either - Even when a sniper shoots from a distance, his first shot is usually wide.

Yep, I wish Arma2 had some semblance of this but it must be hard as hell to code into open world shooters. Kudos to DR if they pulled it off but does this include multi-level buildings and whatnot or simple cabin structures?

DR's "room clearance" is pretty basic as all the buildings are completely empty. They are also almost all one level - some have a small attic.

I would certainly like more gore and more varied death animations as that is my kinda thing but not absolutely essential.

Sure, but as you said, they are not essential.

/10 chars

[Gn0sis 10]

If i recall correctly, Clive Lindop stated in a youtube clip that they wanted to create unique characters instead of identical faces and so on. Well suprise suprise, most of the characters in Ofp:Dr are identical twins, even the ones in your team.

There are only three...no, two positive things in dragon rising at my opinion: Voices and framerate. Even at everything (expect shadows) maxed out 4870x2 performs nicely at 60 frames/s, sadly fps drops to half when using flir or nv.

Famous volcano, that was referred by devs in yt-videos and official forum is just a huge pile of dirt with an opening on top of it. Theres like few trees and more...um dirt in there, not even the ninjas can be found -go figure :/

If we would just get the performance of dragon rising into arma2, there would be no need for "competition" over mil-sim genre, not that this situation is threatning for arma2 in any means.

Edit: 1. mark my words, that Dlc is going to be a freelook, ghillie suit or some other "addon" that was supposed to be a part of the game originally..

Edited October 9, 2009 by Gn0sis

[Bulldogs 10]

I admit, I like how the AI acts when it gets shot in DR, I also like how you can command the AI to clear buildings.

Although I don't like how you can't command them to take cover (and most of the time they won't take cover)

I hate that you can't lean, but the AI can.

I hate that the AI feels like I'm playing on beginner mode, even on hardcore, to the point that I can run up and knife them before they hit me with one bullet (and when they do hit me it's usually a stray bullet from one of my team mates)

And the vehicle hit system us horrible. You can't shoot out tires, when you shoot a tank you can hit it with 2 AT missiles and it looks like it doesn't have a scratch on it, then suddenly it bursts into flames (still without a scratch on it), then it turns from a brand new tank into a burning carcass in a split second.

I like the Hardcore mode, but all it really does is removes the UI elements and stops you from saving and magically rezzing your team mates, but then again, that's pretty much what hard modes on Arma 2 do (just with customization)

I love their nightvision and their version of FLIR, completely unrealistic on both parts but they're handy.

I hate the grass. It doesn't look realistic and the AI can see you through it. The good part being that AI can't detect you as easy as they can in Arma 2, but if they approach you while you're heavily hidden in grass/bushes they'll open fire once they get within 30m regardless of how concealed you are. Fortunately they need to get closer at night time.

[malkuth 0]

WAIT WAIT WAIT

You said what? OFP? The one from 2001?

Come on, the new game is OFP: DR, not OFP

are you that petty or are you just joking?

And yes they clear the house and check the rooms, and call out room cleared when its cleared. The only thing missing is flashbangs witch usually makes the first guy in be dead because the AI is waiting for them. So yes it works, its not perfect put it works.

Oh I forgot one thing OFPDR (is that better?) grenade throwing system totally sucks. ArmaII beats it in this department too. You really have no idea or control where the dam grenade is going.

For instance wanna nade that house that your about to enter? Throw it through the window (by the way they have real windows too in OFPDR that break) well good luck with that, you will most likely bounce it off the window pain and it will come back to you.. Really bad way to throw the nades really.

Oh I will add this too.

The island in OFPDR is very sparse. The land in ArmaII totally blows it away. Im sorry but nothing beats ARMAII in this department. The biggest town I can find in OFPDR is about the size of the smallest one in armaII.

Its too bad its a big island but has nothing on it.

[froggyluv 2136]

Well after reading 500 or so posts, many reviews and watching some streamcasts I honestly can't make heads or tails of this game. Usually i can quickly surmise if a game has any entertainment value to me after a few posts by reading and gathering intel by like minded gamers but this one's got me stumped.

It seems if all opinions were merged and rounded out the bottom consensus would be "It ain't bad but it ain't great and it certainly ain't Flashpoint."

Why in the world would they leave the 63 entity cap in for PC's? Performance levels? Why not let us torture test our own gear and try to push that thing to the limit, hell were used to it. If they dropped the limit thereby also removing the dead bodies vaporize trick, added freelook and lean - I think I'd follow up on my preorder which still stands in limbo.

Probably ain't gonna happen though.

[malkuth 0]

Well after reading 500 or so posts, many reviews and watching some streamcasts I honestly can't make heads or tails of this game. Usually i can quickly surmise if a game has any entertainment value to me after a few posts by reading and gathering intel by like minded gamers but this one's got me stumped.

It seems if all opinions were merged and rounded out the bottom consensus would be "It ain't bad but it ain't great and it certainly ain't Flashpoint."

Why in the world would they leave the 63 entity cap in for PC's? Performance levels? Why not let us torture test our own gear and try to push that thing to the limit, hell were used to it. If they dropped the limit thereby also removing the dead bodies vaporize trick, added freelook and lean - I think I'd follow up on my preorder which still stands in limbo.

Probably ain't gonna happen though.

Like I said they dumbed it down for the consoles really. The game is good with its own points. But If you are expecting another AMRAII or OFP then look somewhere else. This is not the game for you. I enjoy the game for the points that I made in my other thread. And it has a mission builder. Lets face it if ARMAII had no mission builder the game would suck. Well its the same thing with OFP2. Only that the campaign in OFPDR is actually fun to play. And it has the mission editor.. And as long as you go into not thinking you have a better game then ARMA II then you will be fine.

The forums are filled with people complaiining that its not OFP.. When I tell the if they want OFP then they have to buy the Real Game from the real devolpers witch is ARMA and ARMA II. Its that simple. But they just want to flame war instead, and cause trouble.

[W0lle 1050]

malkuth

There is only one OFP, and that's the original from 2001. Please refrain from insulting that game by using the same for this... crap. :)

OFP AI is better, for instance the AI in OFP wont kill you from 2 miles away. And if you make a noise 5 miles away they won't know where you are instantly. the battles are actually fun in OFP, while in ARMA II against the AI its usually instant death for the player.

No one ever has been killed from 2 miles away, neither in ArmA nor in ArmA2. Place yourself on a map, create a 2 miles trigger and place another enemy unit at the end of that trigger and then see if it kills you with one shot from that distance. Not to speak about 5 miles distance. Exaggerations do nothing and make you just sound like someone copying the same urban legends over and over again.

But yes there were issues where the AI spotted you too easy, however they have been long time fixed.

Close quarter battles are possible in OFP not in Arma II. For instance can you tell your guys to clear a house in ARMAII.. NO well you can in OFP.

They are possible - to an extend. However ArmA2 is an infantry 'simulator' and not another SWAT game.

As for clearing a house in DR... no big deal with empty, single store, wooden huts. And yes I can order the ArmA2 AI into a house, even multi story ones and there's a good chance they kill enemy inside, sometimes at least.

OFP and ARMA editor are about the same really. Even though OFP is a little more complex in some areas, OFP has a 60 unit limit. While Arma HAS NONE. OFP editor is outside the game, but you can still test misisons like in ArmaII it just takes about 20 seconds to load the game with the In mission launcher.

The DR Editor has some interesting options, no doubt. But being forced to load the game each time I want to check something is really pissing me off. 'Just' 20 seconds is relative and depends on your hardware. While creating an average mission I preview the mission dozens of times, would I be forced to wait 20 seconds each time I want to check something I would waste a horrible time of my life.

OFP wound system is better, and the immersion of inf battle is a lot better. Again this is because the AI is not Super Human and can hit you in 1 shot. But the effects of gun bullets near misses is far better in OFP.

The immersion of infantry battle is non existant if you fire at the AI and they ignore you, shooting at some guys at exactly the opposite direction. And why is it unrealistic that AI hit you with one shot? ArmA2 isn't an arcade shooter and when you are able to kill with one shot, why the AI can not? Besides that, you can define the AI skill and shooting ability in ArmA2.

OFP has a gore system that surpases ARMAII if thats your thing. Hit someone in the head and they might fall to the ground with half a head missing and brain coming out. Or you might just blow it totally off. (its random) Limbs can fly off. And if you get hit with a massive strike you can basically be turned into gibs. Its pretty intense in OFP when your soldier next too you gets shot in the head and his blood spatters into your screen

Yep that is really great. Look we have an insane amount of blood, gore and flying limbs in the game. Our other graphics are from 2005 at best and the models are so low poly even the original OFP was looking better but whatever, what counts is that average joe gets his hollywood feeling of exploding heads and stuff. I don't need hollywood and gore flying in my face to have fun.

When soldiers get wounded in ARMA II they get back up and its nothing after a few seconds. If your wounded in OFP or an AI is they fall to the ground and move around and wiggle. Then die if you don't fix them up soon enough. I know ARMA II has a simular system but OFP is much better really.

If it's that great then explain me why my dead team members were standing beside me all of the sudden. ArmA2 might not have such a fancy wounding system but atleast my dead team members stay dead.

OFP campaign though shorter actually works and you do not pull your hair out like the thing in ARMA II.

Might be, but I guess it's not even 10% that complex than the one from ArmA2.

OFP has thermal imaging in tanks and guns which is tons better the ARMAII.

No it's not. First because ArmA2 doesn't have FLIR yet and second because the FLIR is DR is no real FLIR but just a fake. Some pages back it was explained pretty well.

OFP has actual balistic and vulnerability on vehicles while ARMA II still uses a Hit point system.

Yeah were a chinese tank destroy an Abrams with one shot at the front. Great vulnerability system, not.

Arma II is more realistic in its inf modes with a compass and everything. While OFP has a hud system and waypoint markers. The hardcore mode deletes this in OFP and gets rid of the save system also. Which truely makes it HARDCORE.

Yes so hardcore that the soldier even lose it's compass, because in real life soldiers also have no compass to navigate. :rolleyes:

[Bulldogs 10]

"It ain't bad but it ain't great and it certainly ain't Flashpoint"

Yep, that's pretty much it.

[Sniperdoc 0]

No it isn't spot on for the reasons I've already highlighted. If BIS had stayed with CM, you would never have had A1 or A2, just DR a lot sooner.

So what??? At least we wouldn't have had to live through a half-arsed A1 and a similarly half-arsed A2. It's no coincidence that both Arma's suffer from EXACTLY the same issues. It's a constraint of the engine they're using and even trying to update it, it still doesn't work the way it should. IF both devs were still together we may have actually had a great version of OFP2 instead of Arma 1 which was absolute garbage.

Maybe YOU have to push yourself to play it, but that is certainly not the case for everyone else.

Yep... that is what I said... thanks for restating it. :)

As I've remarked about 100x, alot (and I'm guessing over 50%) of the technical problems are down to the user. It can't be "just the game" because not everyone experiences them.

Sure... people running it on a Celeron based system with 512MB of ram... sure... totally see it. But the fact is, the SAME issues were present in A1... so I could hardly call it the user that's at fault. Shoddy design, shoddy QA... it all links back to the originator... and that'd be BIS and their antiquated engine they've been propagating.

Does A2 have issues that are purely the fault of A2, most assuredly it does, but DR is not even in the same technical ballpark as A2 so comparing them is downright foolish.

And I never stated that it was. What I am stating is that if the genius minds of both BIS and CM would've still been at work to generate ONE great game, instead of 2 1/2 pieces that try to live up to their promises (the 1/2 is DR and the others are A1 and A2), then everyone would be happy. But instead, here we have people defending a company that put through a beta state product TWICE (counting only A1 and 2) and everyone's peachy keen with it... just because the game runs ok. It doesn't run great, heck for some it doesn't run at all...

It IS in the same ballpark as GRAW, BF2 et al.

I whole heartedly agree on that. In size... DR has nothing on Arma... but being a rock solid game... can't fault CM for that. At least it works the way they intended it to.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Sniperdoc

[froggyluv 2136]

Like I said they dumbed it down for the consoles really. The game is good with its own points. But If you are expecting another AMRAII or OFP then look somewhere else. This is not the game for you. I enjoy the game for the points that I made in my other thread. And it has a mission builder. Lets face it if ARMAII had no mission builder the game would suck. Well its the same thing with OFP2. Only that the campaign in OFPDR is actually fun to play. And it has the mission editor.. And as long as you go into not thinking you have a better game then ARMA II then you will be fine.

.

I didn't want another Arma2 really as I already have that game. What I thought it would be was a COD minus the rails and the spawning ( Which I hate like baby diaper!), somewhat slower-paced gameplay in which I can choose any route I want to complete my objective as I see fit. I don't need it to be as all-encompassing as Arma2, just that tactical frequency that I love (crave maybe) meshed with some intense firefights which are balls-to-walls exciting but staying in the plane of reality (bodies staying dead).

[W0lle 1050]

ethne, sniperdoc

Take your stuff to PM where you don't bother the rest of the community with it.

This here is about DR and not about the poorly developed ArmA and ArmA2, BIS or the gaming industry in general.

[malkuth 0]

malkuth

:rolleyes:

Sorry wolle but yes the AI in ARMAII will kill you from 2 miles away with an AK. We have many videos of guys with snipers 2 miles away killing 1 inf guy while the next guy next to him instantly knows where he is 2 miles away and kills him.

Many youtube videos on this.

Im also sorry that I have not seen the AI in OFPDR sitting around doing nothing. They always shoot at me. The only difference between OFDR and ArmaII is that they miss me alot in OFDR and in ARMAII they get you within 2-3 shots.

I just did the airport mission in OFPDR and had to do it 12 times because the guys in the tower would get me. So they know how to shoot, its just that its a little more fun game wise when they don't actually kill you in the first 2 shots like in ARMA.

[Maddmatt 1]

Sorry wolle but yes the AI in ARMAII will kill you from 2 miles away with an AK. We have many videos of guys with snipers 2 miles away killing 1 inf guy while the next guy next to him instantly knows where he is 2 miles away and kills him.

Complete bullshit.

[malkuth 0]

Complete bullshit.

Since I can't link videos in this via the rules of this thread I will hold it to you to prove me wrong. I have the videos. And its not bullcrap.

[mr_centipede 31]

2miles is around 3km, being 1mile is 1.5km, and no, I also never been sniped from 3kliks away by an AK. are you sure it's not 200m? or 400m? Being 3km is usually already BVR in this game as infantry...

[bangtail 0]

2miles is around 3km, being 1mile is 1.5km, and no, I also never been sniped from 3kliks away by an AK. are you sure it's not 200m? or 400m? Being 3km is usually already BVR in this game as infantry...

It never happens to you because it NEVER happens. The AI don't engage at 3KM with AK's.

Just more nonsense talk is all.

Eth

[Sertorius21 10]

Sorry wolle but yes the AI in ARMAII will kill you from 2 miles away with an AK. We have many videos of guys with snipers 2 miles away killing 1 inf guy while the next guy next to him instantly knows where he is 2 miles away and kills him.

Many youtube videos on this.

Im also sorry that I have not seen the AI in OFPDR sitting around doing nothing. They always shoot at me. The only difference between OFDR and ArmaII is that they miss me alot in OFDR and in ARMAII they get you within 2-3 shots.

I just did the airport mission in OFPDR and had to do it 12 times because the guys in the tower would get me. So they know how to shoot, its just that its a little more fun game wise when they don't actually kill you in the first 2 shots like in ARMA.

Err, where did this "2 miles" figure come from? That's over 3000 meters. I played ArmA alot, and I've been playing ArmA2 alot, and I've never seen the AI make a 3000 meter shot. In my experience, 1000 meters of stand off distance is more than enough to put you safely out of range of any AI infantry except snipers.

[Maddmatt 1]

Exactly. The enemies can't even see you at 3km. So I stand by my previous comment that it is complete bullshit.

The enemy AI don't even shoot that accurately in ArmA 2. I guess some people like to be able to stand in the open with bullets constantly landing around you, because the enemies shoot as if they have been drinking plenty of vodka. DR is for those people.

[GRS 10]

People should just stop defending the game. This is an ArmA forum, even if it was WAY better people would still say it sucks.

I would love to say that I like ArmA2 more but at the moment I don't like either. Whenever I find ArmA2 to be (100%) playable then there will be no doubt.

The point of same spot same numbers is true. They don't do the same thing once engaged, but it makes it too predictable. The only thing DR has over ArmA2 is CQB. Yeah ArmA2 may be based on infantry sim and not swat... but there are lots of cities and enter able buildings... It's a fun game but I will NOT put OFP before the DR. Plus on hardcore it takes to many bullets to kill people. I don't bother with MP in any game anymore except private games that are usually co-op, but I've heard the MP really does suck. Would I recommend it for the SP? Sure, its fun. Is it better than OFP? Hell no. Is it what OFP wanted to become? Hell no. Is it OFP at all? Hell no.

[maturin 12]

The AI seem goddamn hardcoded in A2 not to attack beyond certain ranges. Reluctance to engage is the thing I hate most about A2's AI.

5 mile sniping doesn't happen. Stop being a sissy and find some cover.

Shooting though walls based on hearing, now that can happen.

Edit: Actually, when A2 AI actually do shoot at long ranges, their accuracy blows. I have walked slowly across a mile of field while a squad of AK-wielding fools I couldn't seem to find lobbed spent rounds at me that quietly kicked up dirt at my feet.

[malkuth 0]

Ok it was not 2 miles my mistake the video has it at 400 meters. And was before the new patch witch fixed it.

Sorry. Its kinda like the bullcrap said about OFPDR rising though too. Guess we should all check the facts.

Oh and I will also admit that the new patch has fixed alot of my AI complaints in ARMAII. But the thing is that it took patches to fix it. Not that its bad or anything. Bohemai has always been good to us with this.

OFPDR has only been out 2 days. Remember ArmaII after 2 days? I do I was one of the guys that bought the Gemran version to play it early. So manybe thats why have such a thing against the AI in ArmaII before the patches.

Edited October 9, 2009 by malkuth

[W0lle 1050]

Here is an example mission, the sniper is only ~750 meters away and not 2000 but see what happens: Sniper 2000.

@All

Typical youtube exaggeration, I sometimes wish the AI (snipers) would engage at greater distances. 2 miles is impossible, just because there would be way too many objects like hills, trees and buildings in between.

@malkuth

First it was 2 miles, now it's 400 meters... Sometimes it's really better to verify and check facts before throwing something in. :p

Edited October 9, 2009 by W0lle

[bangtail 0]

Ok it was not 2 miles my mistake the video has it at 400 meters. And was before the new patch witch fixed it.

Sorry. Its kinda like the bullcrap said about OFPDR rising though too. Guess we should all check the facts.

400m is not an unrealistic range for engagement.

Eth

[W0lle 1050]

It is... if you come from the BF/COD/etc corner.

The AKM has an effective range from 800 meters, the AK-74 should be around 600 (in perfect conditions and a skilled shooter maybe) so 400 meters is very possible.