FP : DR - News & Discussion

[dm 9]

The jury is still out on whether or not the dragon rising commo rose is any good - what that you have to use keypresses to go through the options instead of mouseclicks (what made the BF2 commo rose so damn good)

[space 10]

Well we will have to see how much they allow customisation of the controls - one thing that Ive seen far too much of on the youtube clips, is people playing the PC version with an X-Box controller. Just because you can, shouldn't mean that you should! :D

[Ulysses 10]

Being accessible doesn't necessarily mean it has to sacrifice depth. ;)

Edit for Herbal: Again, fair enough on the first point.

Edited post.

No not necessarily, but in the game industry it usually means they simplify things so people don't have to learn/think over things (a bit of an insult to the customer but oh well).

[echo1 0]

I like radial menus personally, and making it contextual is even batter. The easier it is to issue commands, the greater immersion you have ingame = the game feels more real. If you're battling the interface instead of fighting in the game, then that's not a good thing. Sure you can memorise commands over time, but why make life unnecessarily difficult? It doesn't make it more hardcore - it just makes it a pain in the ass.

In reality, there's no difference between the two systems, it's just a matter of representation. Now, you can make the case that the list has too many options and is therefore overly verbose and unnecessarily complicated. However, I would argue that the radial menu is on the other end of the extreme.

Because it only presents you with a limited number of options at one time (i.e. 4) it means that in order to support a wide array of orders, you have to have a very deep menu tree (i.e. how many seperate option screens you have to go through to get what you want). In OFP/ArmA, if I want to tell my men to get down, hold fire and a whole load of other stuff, I hit three buttons (one of which is to select which men you want to deal with - a luxury you do not have in DR) 99% of orders you issue regularly require you to go from the root menu to a single sub menu before you see what you need. If DR supports that complexity of order issuing, God only knows how many times I have to play WASD whack-a-mole in order to highlight the option that ultimately tells them what to do.

Edited October 4, 2009 by echo1

[GunGraveTZA 10]

Agreed there, Ulysses. I get annoyed when good games get simplified on consoles.

*cough* DARK MESSIAH *cough*

Edit for ch: Yes, it is a matter of representation. Yet that representation can make such a difference to the players, and it certainly makes everything look an awful lot less unwieldly. It doesn't matter if you have to go through several menus: It is still much less unwieldly and you get into the hang of it much quicker.

Well I'm off to play The Beatles, I'll continue this discussion later. :p

Edited October 4, 2009 by GunGraveTZA

[echo1 0]

So you think that pressing more buttons to issue a simple command is 'less unwieldy'?

[fincuan 0]

Personally I prefer the OFP-style numbered command interface over radials anytime. Starting with the demo back in, was it 1999 or 2000, has given me plenty of time to remember what number leads to which submenu. Commands can be given in no time at all. I see how it could be a bit tough for new people, but for longer-time players it's way faster than those radial thingys. A good example on a game which has both types of menus is Swat 4, which features both a radial and a numbered menu. I immediately disabled the radial and enabled the "classic interface" on firing it up :)

[space 10]

features both a radial and a numbered menu. I immediately disabled the radial and enabled the "classic interface" on firing it up :)

That's the best option of all - try and keep everyone happy :D . Hopefully they allow alot of customisation on PC. We'll soon find out.

---------- Post added at 10:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

http://ve3tro.com/6029/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-interview/?

That interview is mainly talking at the console version, but it has some good info, and a nice screenshot of the FLIR. The comment about the AI spotting you easier if you're on the ridge line is pretty cool.

[myshaak 0]

Personally I prefer the OFP-style numbered command interface over radials anytime. Starting with the demo back in, was it 1999 or 2000, has given me plenty of time to remember what number leads to which submenu. Commands can be given in no time at all. I see how it could be a bit tough for new people, but for longer-time players it's way faster than those radial thingys. A good example on a game which has both types of menus is Swat 4, which features both a radial and a numbered menu. I immediately disabled the radial and enabled the "classic interface" on firing it up :)

I agree completely. I see a lot of people on BI forums (and CM forums of course) complaining about the classic numbered command interface, but just as you, I wouldn't change it. Sure, it takes some time to remember the most used combinations and it may seem complicated at first, but any experienced OFP/ArmA vet will tell you he/she can tell his/her squad to change formation, change stance and change combat mode before any DR player could issue one of those things using wild mouse combos on the radial command...

[Apache-Cobra 0]

What a heated discussion about the command interface! Jeez. Anything probably works well enough.

I come bearing news that crying/whimpering has been confirmed in DR.

[max power 21]

There were heated discussions recently in this thread, but how can you read this recent one about command radials as heated?

DM - Thanks for posting that analysis of the review. It at least put some content into this shockingly long and mad foray of off topic fail trolling. It took me three sittings to read what was written in the last 24 hours.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Max Power

[dm 9]

I come bearing news that crying/whimpering has been confirmed in DR.

Didnt we already discuss that already ?

@Max, I try, but occasionally it gets lost. This thread has been crazy mad today...

[GunGraveTZA 10]

So you think that pressing more buttons to issue a simple command is 'less unwieldy'?

In one word, yes.

[echo1 0]

I think we should agree to disagree then... Both solutions have their merits, but I think the OFP-style one is best suited for large numbers of different types of command.

What a heated discussion about the command interface! Jeez.

It was a reasonably intelligent discussion IMHO. Certainly better than trolling with unsubstantiated nonsense and ignoring people who are proving you wrong.

Edited October 4, 2009 by echo1

[Ryujin 0]

I agree completely. I see a lot of people on BI forums (and CM forums of course) complaining about the classic numbered command interface, but just as you, I wouldn't change it. Sure, it takes some time to remember the most used combinations and it may seem complicated at first, but any experienced OFP/ArmA vet will tell you he/she can tell his/her squad to change formation, change stance and change combat mode before any DR player could issue one of those things using wild mouse combos on the radial command...

In my opinion, the radial would be much of the same, once you get the hang of you would memorize the combinations. I do think the radial is easier on new players though, it's a bit more familiar and it breaks things down into slightly more intuitive choices for someone trying to find something. Once you memorize the combos, their both more or less the same.

I would use a radial "ingame" and something more like SB pro in the map. Steel Beasts Pro probably has the best command/marking system on map of any non-strategy game in my opinion.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o62/Ryujin_bucket/SBProPEcm2008-07-1608-29-27-18.jpg

Edited October 5, 2009 by Ryujin

[fincuan 0]

That depends entirely on how the radial is done. If it's has keyboard shortcuts for all choices then yeah, it can be almost as fast as the numeric menu. If not it'll suck in situations where one has to give commands quickly.

[myshaak 0]

In my opinion, the radial would be much of the same, once you get the hang of you would memorize the combinations. I do think the radial is easier on new players though, it's a bit more familiar and it breaks things down into slightly more intuitive choices for someone trying to find something. Once you memorize the combos, their both more or less the same.

I would use a radial "ingame" and something more like SB pro in the map. Steel Beasts Pro probably has the best command/marking system on map of any non-strategy game in my opinion.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o62/Ryujin_bucket/SBProPEcm2008-07-1608-29-27-18.jpg

Well, I agree with you saying that radial command system can become intuitive, however, I don't think that it is a suitable solution for a more complex game. I'll give you Crysis' radial option (that suit control gizmo). That was very intuitive since there vere only 5 options (I think) and that's it. One button press and one mouse swish and you did what you wanted to, you wouldn't miss the fifth of the radial even during the fight.

But OFP series has 10 options for command control and each of those have a different amount of sub-options.. hitting the one tenth of a circle I wanted to hit would be much harder and with the sub-menus virtually impossible during tense situations. As I remember radial commands from DR's videos and SWAT4, both these games had only 4 options (with 4 possible sub-options, sometimes more levels).. In my opinion, userfriendly radial command for ArmA2 would require some serious simplifying of commands..

EDIT: And true, the in-game map could use a little more "interactiveness"

[Apache-Cobra 0]

Didnt we already discuss that already ?

Yes, but it hadn't been confirmed completely. If you read the rest of those articles I quoted from, they are very descriptive and humorous, so it's hard to tell what's actually in-game and what is just added to make the story more entertaining.

[eble 3]

Yes, but it hadn't been confirmed completely. If you read the rest of those articles I quoted from, they are very descriptive and humorous, so it's hard to tell what's actually in-game and what is just added to make the story more entertaining.

with one hand they give us something knew but with the other they take it away again.

It's been confirmed the game for the PC will ship with 'no' dedicated server files.

Just how long do you think MP will last on that format?

[Arma-2-Guru 55]

I used to love the smell of a new game, and the weight of the box, while I'm on the bus home from getting a game I sit there with my nose stuck in the box sniffing that plasticy goodness, and reading the manual getting all hyped about playing it, two examples of that are Fable and Halo 2.

[eble 3]

I used to love the smell of a new game, and the weight of the box, while I'm on the bus home from getting a game I sit there with my nose stuck in the box sniffing that plasticy goodness, and reading the manual getting all hyped about playing it, two examples of that are Fable and Halo 2.

haha glad I wasn't the only game sniffer then :)

[Defunkt 431]

It's been confirmed the game for the PC will ship with 'no' dedicated server files.

Just how long do you think MP will last on that format?

That's the kicker, I could live without mod tools but as I have little or no interest in SP (all AI is dumb IMO) there's no longer any reason to even take an interest in the title.

[4 IN 1 0]

I personally would like to see both in the game, while Radial command handle more simple orders(move to, suppress direction, cover/watch direction, return to formation), the numbered menu gives other control

[myshaak 0]

I personally would like to see both in the game, while Radial command handle more simple orders(move to, suppress direction, cover/watch direction, return to formation)

Doesn't the context sensitive command "point-n-click" control works pretty much like you described? But instead of mouse swishing combos you use the classic middle-mouse in-game menu.

EDIT: Now when I think of it, this the radial command would actually be pretty usefull for this.. :) Not as a replacement of the complex command system, just as a replacement of the context-sensitive system.. you're genius :)

Edited October 5, 2009 by Myshaak

[4 IN 1 0]

Doesn't the context sensitive command "point-n-click" control works pretty much like you described? But instead of mouse swishing combos you use the classic middle-mouse in-game menu.

EDIT: Now when I think of it, this the radial command would actually be pretty usefull for this.. :) Not as a replacement of the complex command system, just as a replacement of the context-sensitive system.. you're genius :)

Yes~now you see what I mean ;)

the problem of context-sensitive menu is that it make you spend more time to enter old command menu, which I find very very jucky when I need to use that to change formation, order attack, etc

I hope that BI dev can read and understand the reason behind this

better back ontopic now