FP : DR - News & Discussion

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

The replies from viiiper made me laugh there

If that guy believed 2+2=3 there is no way in hell anyone could correct him

Unless they were a Dragon Rising dev, I think.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

The replies from viiiper made me laugh there

If that guy believed 2+2=3 there is no way in hell anyone could correct him

That guy Viiiper doesn't screw around when negative press is directed to his precious OFP:COD.

I would seriously take that cat a little more seriously if he didn't add so much Fanboyism and horrible grasp of the English language into his post.

Sorry, that dude pisses me of so much that it's hard for me to stay on topic.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Hans Ludwig

[PeepsGetAngry 10]

That guy Viiiper doesn't screw around when negative press is directed to his precious OFP:COD.

I would seriously take that cat a little more seriously if he didn't add so much Fanboyism and horrible grasp of the English language into his post.

Sorry, that dude pisses me of so much that it's hard for me to stay on topic.

he's helios in disguise, corporate trolls are a dime a dozen these days.. just like placebo has 50 alts here

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Ok guys, how are we supposed to argue against this?

People tend to think of ArmA being more realistic than it is:

Infantry damage model:

ArmA = hitpoints, aim/movement effects, incapacitation, magic healing medics

OFP2 = No hitpoints, blood loss, nonhealing bandages, incapcitation, I think medics can magic heal

OFP2 "wins"

Vehicles:

ArmA = hitpoints, "magic radar", no real fire control, IR coming with expansion, simple flight mechanics, no real animations

OFP2 = Armor penetration, IR confirmed, Real fire control, simple flight mechanics, no real animations

OFP2 wins with a decent lead

Infantry weapons:

ArmA = weapon sway, gravity, some penetration, free aim, no crosshair option, same reload speed/animation for a lot of weapons

OFP2 = weapon sway, gravity, supposedly better penetration, no crosshair option, no free aim (arguably more realistic because players have an idea of where the center of the screen is and can reflexively shoot more in line with what can be done in reality), nice animations true to each weapon,

Slight OFP2 win

AI/infantry tactics/CQB

Do we really have to go there ?

I worked on the ACE mod for ArmA and I can honestly say comparing stock ArmA2 to OFP2, I don't see a huge realism difference and in a number of areas OFP2 comes out slightly ahead.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5630372&posted=1#post5630372

[PeepsGetAngry 10]

you heard it.. cuz hans wrote up this ridiculous comparison charr, opfpdr wins hands down over arma 2... woot.. noone cares, we dont compare games we compare name to old name

Unfortunately this troll dont even know the name of the game he is a fanboi for...

hint to morons, there is no such thing as OPFP2

[ffs 10]

Ok guys, how are we supposed to argue against this?

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5630372&posted=1#post5630372

i lol'd

[bangtail 0]

A scripted campaign that can be finished in 2 days and an extremely limited editor.

This is no competition for A2. They are 2 entirely different types of game. A2 is a deep milsim and DR is a console port with some tactical elements.

Let them enjoy their console game :rolleyes:

In 2 years, A2 will have thousands of mods, addons etc etc and these guys will be hyping the next supposed "A2 killer".

It gets so old. If you like DR, great. I just don't see why they insist on trying to insult anyone who doesn't share their opinion.

A2 is all about the editor and A2 has DR beaten like a red headed step child in that respect. The editor and the endless possibilities ensure that A2 will be alive and kicking LONG after DR is in the bargain bin.

Eth

[OFP3 10]

I will try out the demo of Operation Flashpoint 2 and i can give what i think about it.

I heard that it takes 7 hours to run through the entire island? :D

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

I will try out the demo of Operation Flashpoint 2 and i can give what i think about it.

I heard that it takes 7 hours to run through the entire island? :D

Anyone know when (if) that demo is coming out?

[Ryujin 0]

They pushed it back to post release as they're "fixing stuff".

Btw, I'm the creator of that comparison list. Full thread version here: http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380389

Stock game to stock game, it's not a clear cut advantage to ArmA2. Both games doing certain things better than the other in terms of realism.

Actually OFP2 is certainly just as modifiable if not more so than ArmA2. The editor is fully featured and you can use the very powerful LUA scripting. It supports user made content packs similar to the ArmA pbos.

Now before the probably inevitable defensive flaming begins, I enjoy and play ArmA2 a lot. However, I wanted to try to do some unbiased as possible comparison between the two stock games in terms of realism, feature to feature. I don't know how OFP2 will play and I'm not touching on that.

I however believe OFP2 has a lot of potential, especially the engine and moddablity (as such I started the Combat Simulation Project mod).

I know I'll probably get a wave of reactionary hate for it, but relax, I'm not trying to win anyone over. If you think anything on my list isn't true, tell me and I'll fix it if what you say is true.

[ffs 10]

dude, have you played DR? lol

Edited September 20, 2009 by ffs
OFP≠DR

[bangtail 0]

They pushed it back to post release as they're "fixing stuff".

Btw, I'm the creator of that comparison list. Full thread version here: http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380389

Stock game to stock game, it's not a clear cut advantage to ArmA2. Both games doing certain things better than the other in terms of realism.

Actually OFP2 is certainly just as modifiable if not more so than ArmA2. The editor is fully featured and you can use the very powerful LUA scripting. It supports user made content packs similar to the ArmA pbos.

Now before the probably inevitable defensive flaming begins, I enjoy and play ArmA2 a lot. However, I wanted to try to do some unbiased as possible comparison between the two stock games in terms of realism, feature to feature. I don't know how OFP2 will play and I'm not touching on that.

I however believe OFP2 has a lot of potential, especially the engine and moddablity (as such I started the Combat Simulation Project mod).

I know I'll probably get a wave of reactionary hate for it, but relax, I'm not trying to win anyone over. If you think anything on my list isn't true, tell me and I'll fix it if what you say is true.

No defensive flaming :D

I'll wait until the game releases before passing final judgement (although I will never buy it).

Just as modifiable as A2? Any proof of that APART from dev comments? Comparable editor? I'm having a LOT of trouble believing this. I don't believe the engine will be capable of handling large amounts of AI as the maps have been scaled down significantly from what was originally advertised and 4 man Co-oP is just plain weak.

Your comparison is quite clearly biased and you seem to side with the unreleased DR, which is fine I guess but you have picked points that favour DR and I could quite easily write a similar comparison that favours A2.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy it when it is released - nobody here really cares tbh. I think a lot of people take exception with the fact that CM chose to dishonestly use the franchise name. If they had used a new name, I would have far less of a problem with it.

DR is nothing like OFP and that will be exposed to the cold light of day in short order. It probably won't hurt the console sales as most of those people likely never played OFP but it will hurt PC sales. Of that you can be guaranteed.

Cheers,

Eth

Edited September 20, 2009 by BangTail

[That guy 10]

As far as "realism" goes arma lags behind in the small details. Small and somewhat insignificant details that stack up. stuff like reload anims, lack of back up iron sights, no flashlights,lasers, proper body armor etc. ArmA focus on the big picture. its a "combat sim", not a gear/vehicle sim. every thing does what it does on the actual battlefield pretty closely, though it does not go about in a 100% correct way. tanks and aviation do what they do, and infantry do what they do. it works

It seems from the vids of DR it has alot of the small details, but looses focus on the bigger picture. when every thing is put together it just seems... well like BF2. not very authentic (from what i have seen)

for example, Infiltration (the UT mod) blows both arma and DR out of the water with its realistic features and stuff, but that cant gloss over the fact that is is just a run'n gun corridor shooter. Just because it has alot of spiffy realistic features does not make it an authentic game

as of this time think DR is more realistic (feature wise), but ArmA is by far more authentic

[Maddmatt 1]

Actually OFP2 is certainly just as modifiable if not more so than ArmA2. The editor is fully featured and you can use the very powerful LUA scripting.

So the scripting allows you to make maps outside the 2km box for PvP and have players over 275m or so apart in coop?

It's hard to imagine a scripting system that can make your own game modes when there are those weird restrictions, after all in ArmA those kinds of restrictions can be fully controlled by scripting if they were wanted...

It supports user made content packs similar to the ArmA pbos.

How do you know this?

[bangtail 0]

As far as "realism" goes arma lags behind in the small details. Small and somewhat insignificant details that stack up. stuff like reload anims, lack of back up iron sights, no flashlights,lasers, proper body armor etc. ArmA focus on the big picture. its a "combat sim", not a gear/vehicle sim. every thing does what it does on the actual battlefield pretty closely, though it does not go about in a 100% correct way. tanks and aviation do what they do, and infantry do what they do. it works

It seems from the vids of DR it has alot of the small details, but looses focus on the bigger picture. when every thing is put together it just seems... well like BF2. not very authentic (from what i have seen)

for example, Infiltration (the UT mod) blows both arma and DR out of the water with its realistic features and stuff, but that cant gloss over the fact that is is just a run'n gun corridor shooter. Just because it has alot of spiffy realistic features does not make it an authentic game

as of this time think DR is more realistic (feature wise), but ArmA is by far more authentic

I think these comparisons should be shelved unless you have actually played the retail game.

This constant focus on "realism" is irksome as well. We are talking about video games. Some of them border more on simulation while others sacrfice in favour of entertainment but none of them are going to properly simulate a war.

There are certain aspects of PRM for example, that are very well done (surpressing fire for example) while other aspects of the game are far from realistic. This is the same for A2 and, no doubt, for DR. Compromises HAVE to be made in order to maintain conducive gameplay.

I've seen some film trailers that looked sh*t hot but the actual film was a 2/10. Most of the commentary concerning DR is speculation at best.

Eth

Edited September 20, 2009 by BangTail

[hoot 0]

[...]Actually OFP2 is certainly just as modifiable if not more so than ArmA2. The editor is fully featured and you can use the very powerful LUA scripting. It supports user made content packs similar to the ArmA pbos.[...]

No defensive flaming here, but well, just because you have something wired to LUA doesn't make a game per se modable or scriptable at scales like BI games do! That assumption is not realistic. LUUUUUUAAAAAAAA! How many people know of the Python scripting in BF2? It is also mightier than BI's language, but in the end, it was the design of the game that refused flexible modding and scripting like what is/was possible with Flashpoint1985 already.

[4 IN 1 0]

Ok guys, how are we supposed to argue against this?

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5630372&posted=1#post5630372

Cannot be bother with :p

Anyway I cant find a reason for me to do so

[Ryujin 0]

@That guy:

I certainly won't dispute that ArmA gets the big picture, we'll have to wait and see how OFP2 handles it. If it can pull it off while keeping the small details that would be great. It certainly has the potential to pull of some large scale stuff, but we don't have much info on it.

All I did was just put together a realism feature to feature comparison, so I'm not making any claims beyond that having not played it.

@ethne: If you don't like it, it's not my place to do anything other than respect that.

I agree that using the OFP name was in bad taste, but it's not the make or break factor for me. I don't think it'll be an OFP remake (ArmA), which might be good for verity or bad. We'll find out soon enough.

As much as I may be biased towards OFP2 (which is a little, but I've bought OFP, ArmA, and ArmA2 at their release dates and certainly still enjoy them, I don't buy into this OFP2/ArmA2 rivalry, I don't need one or the other to fail to "validate" anything) .

I also of course don't have the game in my hands and obviously that should be taken into account when you read the comparison. Which is also why I'm not discussing gameplay.

All I'm saying is I wanted to explore the statement "ArmA2 is more realistic than OFP2" in detail. Its not quite that simple. OFP2 still has some things going for it and hopefully they're fully taken advantage of.

No defensive flaming here, but well, just because you have something wired to LUA doesn't make a game per se modable or scriptable at scales like BI games do! That assumption is not realistic. LUUUUUUAAAAAAAA! How many people know of the Python scripting in BF2? It is also mightier than BI's language, but in the end, it was the design of the game that refused flexible modding and scripting like what is/was possible with Flashpoint1985 already.

Correct, I don't know that for certain.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Ryujin

[bangtail 0]

All I'm saying is I wanted to explore the statement "ArmA2 is more realistic than OFP2" in detail. Its not quite that simple. OFP2 still has some things going for it and hopefully they're fully taken advantage of.

As I said, this whole "realism" argument is worthless (in either case). They are games and I firmly believe that A2 is more of a simulation and that the editor and ability to do just about anything with it is far more elaborate in A2.

If DR is as heavily modded and supported by it's community as OFP/A1/A2, I'll be VERY surprised. I don't believe it will be anywhere near as versatile as A2 or it's predecessors in that respect and that's judging by advertised restrictions concerning DR.

Eth

[Ryujin 0]

As I said, this whole "realism" argument is worthless (in either case). They are games and I firmly believe that A2 is more of a simulation and that the editor and ability to do just about anything with it is far more elaborate in A2.

If DR is as heavily modded and supported by it's community as OFP/A1/A2, I'll be VERY surprised. I don't believe it will be anywhere near as versatile as A2 or it's predecessors in that respect and that's judging by advertised restrictions concerning DR.

Eth

I'm hoping for a lot of versatility because I see a lot of potential. It's never going to be an exact match to ArmA, but it has a lot going for it for a realism mod, going into the detail that isn't in ArmA.

I guess you could look at as almost complimentary with ArmA's big picture focus, but lower level abstraction and what seems to be a more "bottom up" approach of OFP2. Which is probably better that just "ArmA2 - The Codemasters Version".

We'll just have to see how it develops in terms of versatility. Seeing as the ego engine seems to be being developed as a sort of middleware, an SDK or similar may not be out of the question (Unreal/Source style).

@Madmatt (sorry, missed your post):

I don't know the answers to everything, but for example here's an excerpt from a PM between me and Viiiper (who you all probably know and love/hate/whatever) in reguards to modding:

"I'm not going to mislead you, OFP2 is not all fun [in relation to modding, no it's not that easy :D ], it's going to be a hard hill to climb and without breaking NDA I can say one lead (senior) dev said to me.

"We expect the users to rip ofp2 apart on day one" meaning dismantle the construct.

In effect it's not got crazy encryption.

Re skin models (soldiers, find out how it ticks...) etc.

Mission making used API calls (special c+ pre written calls to the game engine to get down and dirty)

Inserting of user DLC is possible.

How models/ packs are delt with is going to be a learning curve like original ofp from bis.

"

Edited September 20, 2009 by Ryujin

[bangtail 0]

I'm hoping for a lot of versatility because I see a lot of potential. It's never going to be an exact match to ArmA, but it has a lot going for it for a realism mod, going into the detail that isn't in ArmA.

I guess you could look at as almost complimentary with ArmA's big picture focus, but lower level abstraction and what seems to be a more "bottom up" approach of OFP2. Which is probably better that just "ArmA2 - The Codemasters Version".

We'll just have to see how it develops in terms of versatility. Seeing as the ego engine seems to be being developed as a sort of middleware, an SDK or similar may not be out of the question (Unreal/Source style).

The detail in A2 is only limited by what people create (like it's predecessors). I just don't see that kind of community backing in DR's future. I'll be happy to admit that I was wrong if it ever happens but I'm about 99% sure that A2 will still be going strong in 2 years, whereas DR will be long forgotten.

Time will tell.

Eth

[Ryujin 0]

The detail in A2 is only limited by what people create (like it's predecessors). I just don't see that kind of community backing in DR's future. I'll be happy to admit that I was wrong if it ever happens but I'm about 99% sure that A2 will still be going strong in 2 years, whereas DR will be long forgotten.

Time will tell.

Eth

That is certainly the question and there is no way to know at this point. I think it has a least some future, maybe not that of the modding giant of ArmA, but probably above average. It they deliver on the modding goods it might take off.

(on a general side note, I'm pleasantly surprised that we were able to have a pretty respectful and flame free conversation about the two games. I was preparing for the worst, it's nice to see better than that.)

[bangtail 0]

That is certainly the question and there is no way to know at this point. I think it has a least some future, maybe not that of the modding giant of ArmA, but probably above average. It they deliver on the modding goods it might take off.

(on a general side note, I'm pleasantly surprised that we were able to have a pretty respectful and flame free conversation about the two games. I was preparing for the worst, it's nice to see better than that.)

These are not the CM forums guy. I'm not going to berate you for having a difference of opinion.

Just because I don't like what I perceive to be DR or the dishonest way in which it is being marketed doesn't mean we can't behave like adults while discussing the respective pros and cons of both games.

Cheers,

Eth

Edited September 20, 2009 by BangTail

[Maddmatt 1]

@Madmatt (sorry, missed your post):

I don't know the answers to everything, but for example here's an excerpt from a PM between me and Viiiper (who you all probably know and love/hate/whatever) in reguards to modding:

"I'm not going to mislead you, OFP2 is not all fun [in relation to modding, no it's not that easy :D ], it's going to be a hard hill to climb and without breaking NDA I can say one lead (senior) dev said to me.

"We expect the users to rip ofp2 apart on day one" meaning dismantle the construct.

In effect it's not got crazy encryption.

Re skin models (soldiers, find out how it ticks...) etc.

Mission making used API calls (special c+ pre written calls to the game engine to get down and dirty)

Inserting of user DLC is possible.

How models/ packs are delt with is going to be a learning curve like original ofp from bis.

"

Interesting. So at least people will be able to add content, that's good. Hopefully it can be organised somehow like the mod folders ArmA has.

[dm 9]

I don't believe it will be anywhere near as versatile as A2 or it's predecessors in that respect and that's judging by advertised restrictions concerning DR.

Don't forget, the deomgraphic has a large influence on the scale/quality of the mods. Without wanting to tar everyone with the same brush, as soon as you get into the "halo griefer kiddie" (thats not to say the whole community is, but judging by their various "how old are you" polls/general style of posting...) deomgraphic, you generally lose the patience, attention span and wilingness to put the effort in. Especially if its as hard as they claim it to be...

I just don't see that kind of community backing in DR's future. I'll be happy to admit that I was wrong if it ever happens

Yup, I have to agree with this.

here's an excerpt from a PM between me and Viiiper in reguards to modding:

"without breaking NDA I can say..."

That guy is so full of shit its unbelievable. Pretty much all of his posting comes across as your typical e-penis "oohh, look at me, I've got an NDA". You're not the only one buddy, but you dont hear everyone else who's got one mentioning it pretty much every second post...