Changing environment due to pollution

[Baff1 0]

Here, primary is 4-7.

Junior is 7-11

Secondary is 11-16.

Then we have sixth form 16-18 and University for any age at all dependant on ablility but typically 18-22. University courses range from 3 years for most to 5 for tougher ones like medecine.

Seriously, 7 year old Korean kids build working robots in class. It rocks.

Here in the UK we had a long string of mild winters recently. Although most years there has still been snow.

In the last few years winters have been as cold as ever.

In the seventies the winters were so cold and for so long that the entire scientific community all swore we were entering a new ice age.

The difficulty i have with ice melting on mountains, is that long before anyone had ever heard of global warming, we were all taught in school that the ice was moving and constantly melting. That glaciers weren't ever permanent.

So when I hear that glaciers on mountains have melted, I think aah "glaciation". Not OMG GLOBAL WARMING WE ARE GOING TO DIE.

But that's just me.

I also dont; think 10-20 -30 years is a long enough period fo time to predict a trend of that magnetude and I'm really sorry, but I do not believe that .2 degrees the global temperature rose in your life time (and then fell again afterwards) melted all the snow and ended your winters.

What a load of bollocks. The army got new clothes becuase the temperature rose by .2 degrees for 20 years last century?

Come on!

You are going to get hot summers. Sometimes you are going to get 2 in a row. Sometimes you are going to get 10 in a row.

Don't panic.

I don't see the word "professor" and get scared.

I don't start to doubt what the other professors taught me just because a more fashionable professor says something else.

In all honesty I don't think anyone knows the percentages involved, from what little I know of science, I know they can't measure that very reliably and they can't run any control groups. They can't even predict all the variables yet, let alone measure them.

I think I know the difference between the science and a scientific theory.

I also know the guy who got suspended for those dodgy emails was getting paid 13 million to conduct his research. That if ever he needed a motive to lie about anything, he had a pretty big one. I'd lie for a lot less, wouldn't you?

He might of been a professor, but that doesn't make him incorruptable. People are people, whatever their academic qualifications.

From primary school upwards the kids here are all taught the same percentages you probably were and that is something that makes me and many other people very angry indeed.

I'm not very happy with the current government interference in the school curriculams. In fact if I ever meet any schools ministers you can expect physical violence on my part.

Schools are temples of education and the use of them as the means of social conditioning is something that does not sit well with me.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Baff1

[vilas 473]

so you have simply other names for schools and your secondary is our "gimnasium" , something like 5-8 primary

it is just another naming of schools as you see

in america they use high-school which is in dictionary for Polish "liceum" before university or whatever

no matter how you name schools or divide stages year earlier or year later

too big heads were doing reports to simply saying they are useless

also when cleaning systems are very expensive, some companies (if punishment is not too strong, if they can corrupt/hide) do not give a shit if people are poisoned or not

and instead of snow, in summer we had +35 i thought i get heart attack when i left bunker in work, i had tshirt and thin trousers and it was too hot to breath , in home all windows i closed by thick fabric, 2 fans around me etc.

horrible

20 years ago we had summers 25-30 max, not 35-40 , not africa , i don't want to live in africa :(

i hate such hot temperatures, hard to live, breath, man is whole sweat and i take shower 3-4 times daily :(

while 20 years ago we had -20 :D in winter snow-man, lots of snow :)

Edited December 6, 2009 by vilas

[Baff1 0]

I'm familiar with the U.S. system, they use it in Japan and Korea also.

Yeah I'm sorry Vilas old boy, but I don't buy that a point .2 degree change in global temperature that occoured 10 years ago and has since rectified changed the temperature of your summer in Poland by 10-15 degrees this year.

That's a tough pill to swallow.

The thing about big (publicly owned) companies is, all you have to do to control them is stop buying their goods.

Or you can buy them.

Or buy shares in them and get to vote on who you want as manager.

Or you can work for them yourself. Be that manager too.

Or you can report them to the government and prosecute them or have them prosecuted on your behalf.

You will still get abuse and corruption, but you have more accountablilty than in just about any other organisation I can think of.

Also, how come when we discuss big companies, you only ever dwell on the bad stuff.

Aren't you aware of the good they do?

Is pollution the only thing you recognise big busness brings to the world?

Really, all the amazing things big companies bring. All the advances to mankind. All the prosperity. And all you can think of is "polltution". How sour is that?

What about hundreds of millions of kids that don't die in child birth? What about billions of people who aren't starving? What about the internet and video games?

What about transatlantic travel? Penecillin. The ball point pen. Disinfectant. Fertilizer. Satellite commiunications. Personal transport. Vitamin pills. Electricity. Heating. Housing. Fresh water. Sanitation. Paint. Education. Literature. Music. Chocolate and Ice Cream!

I mean seriously "pollution", don't you think you may have overlooked a few things?

Edited December 7, 2009 by Baff1

[HyperU2 11]

i take shower 3-4 times daily :(

That's kind of bad for the environment.

[riffleman 20]

WORLD MEETS TO SAVE EARTH

COPENHAGEN CALLING.

Representative of 192 countries will meet over 12 days to find ways to save our planed from warming up.

AT STAKE the future of the earth for human habitation.

THE EFFECTS millions could be displaced or killed by rising sea levels,extreme weather and declining harvests.india is already experiencing falling wheat,fruit and spice yields.

THE MAIN ISSUE disagreement between the west and developing countries over cutting emissions of gases warming the Earth.

Save world,people do something from your behalf,don't talk take action.

Think where you start

Edited December 7, 2009 by riffleman
Error

[vilas 473]

The thing about big (publicly owned) companies is, all you have to do to control them is stop buying their goods.

1) Or you can buy them.

2) Or buy shares in them and get to vote on who you want as manager.

3) Or you can work for them yourself. Be that manager too.

4) Or you can report them to the government and prosecute them or have them prosecuted on your behalf.

capitalistic bullshit

like in PL some managers say "if you not like job you can change" but when unemployment was 20% than change for what ?

or when bullshit say "want equal can" < bullshit, tell to disabled who wanna join SWAT

ad 0) first you must know about it, if owner of TV/newspaper is friend of owner of polluting plant - you won't know

ad1 ) buy them ??? wtf ?? do i have 1 000 000 000 monthly ??

ad2 ) buy shares ??? also required to be very rich and have milions , not for usual people who earn 300/400/500 euro

ad3) work for them ? when they hire only foreign managers for example, or to be manager requires sleep with directors or to work for them - rat race and narrow minded follower

ad4 ) prosecute ? usual people have no money for lawyers, while companies have lawyers, even in so many movies (not only with Seagal but other court-movies) show way of courts in US, in opposition to US, PL courts are very corrupted, so rich vs. poor, always rich wins, no matter poisons or not

"law for the rich" is main rule

in my country for example judge have right to allow opinions/expertise or not, which is sick, cause i know personally case, when one man was kicking his wife, she was abused, beaten, home violence etc.

but he had money...

6 people from block, neighbors were giving statement that he used violence and...

court decided they are not trustworthy and guy was judged "innocent" cause opinion of 6 people from block of flats not matter for court when guy had money and connections (colonel)

in don't know how in west, but here courts are to buy like third world, cause they are nonpunishable "immunity", so the only way for poor people is spread knowledge and maybe revolt in future , who knows

cause even if all is good, than punishment for poisoning is lower than cost of cleaning system and for more money they prefer to poison and from time to time pay court fine/ticket

our law changed by corrupting lobbies in such way , that inspector must notify controlled company about control < total nonsense

if we go to control someone, he must know about it "law on busines" article 79, most sick regulation i met :/ as from strict and strong we turned in third world rules

so company knows and prepare for any control :/

also big companies who poison, now moved to China "for cheapest products" , but pollution there causes also effects in whole globe

but as i said many times, i won't discuss "reasons" for temperature raise

and this topic went offtopic from "pollution" to "temperature" which is propaganda of one or others

pollution is problem, poisoning products is problem, temperature is puzzle hard to guess

Edited December 7, 2009 by vilas

[grub 10]

Righto Vilas lets not make this a nationalist thing, I agree that some of Americas policies are up to shit but what countries isn't? Besides its clear Baff1 is English, Americans don't say mate or tossers or know things about other countries :p. I kid, I kid. A f***wit is a f***wit you'll find them all over the world.

So firstly Baff1 old boy, my garden is also filled with foreign plants what I meant is the fauna and flora that's killing all the native animals and taking over their food supply thus causing things like erosion and so forth but I digress. Also the effects (one example) mining is having are things like the massive

we had a couple of months back, caused by winds lifting huge piles of red dirt left by mines from the 70's. Yes a natural occurrence but to travel all those K's to Sydney and still be that thick? Definitely not if it was just natural topsoil. I'm 2 hrs inland from Sydney and when I woke up I thought I was on fucking Mars. So again I'm talking about the amount of displacement and destruction that goes on without the proper sustainability research being done.

"To imagine that people somehow don't see that an oil company researching CO2 pollution has an agenda is taking a little far I think. Everyone read comic books as a child. We all get the idea". Hey some people do, not me and you, but some dumb people do. I was just saying.

"All that needs to be done is the price of energy raised worldwide and people will begin to starve. It will start in Africa and China and the poorest places and it will spread. And people in richer countries will lose their jobs and the chain reaction will feed on itself. Not in 10, 50 or a hundred years time but right now today. It's already happening. It's an ongoing crisis that mankind has yet to escape from.

It's an imaginary crisis in the future and we are in the midst of an immediate and very real one." And this is what I mean about big business. This is the side I cannot stand. The side that thinks "logical povertism" is a good thing for the wallet.

Vilas, 3 showers a day? Send some of that water down this way champ. I'm 2 months off from bathing in a bucket. We are in serious drought here. Which is a natural occurrence and not caused by pollution (and if my government would pay any attention to the aboriginal people, they would have known it was coming) but that is not to say that the Earths natural, but suddenly erratic, behaviour isn't being sped up by human activity.

Look my stance is this. Renewable energy isn't such a crock. Its worth looking into. As is trying our hardest to do some sustainability research into the particular piece of land before we set up industry. The ecosystem, whether you believe it or not, owns us. We cant just do whatever and say "she'll be right" its stupid. There is evidence that pollution is having an effect on the earth. You cannot say there isn't.

Anyone check out that plastic doco? Its this sort of shit I'm talking about. Things will stop working in sync with one another.

Regards,

Grub

[vilas 473]

too complicated level of English language, but i am trying to understand that you also see human/busines/industry bad influence on world (pollution etc.)

concernig my texts about America, according to reports US uses 80% of goods and energy of world , right ?

so... if US is only 4% of people of planet and use 60-80% (depending on branch) of goods and energy , than ???

everyone there have their 6 liter engine, 8 cylinder pickup which use more gasoline than our trucks

we have oil for more than 1 Euro and our engines are 1200, 1600 ccm

not huge pickups

we use low-energy lamps, not bulbs 100W

how much galons of fuel use Polish , French, Czech family and US ?

how much kilowatts use monthly family in PL (which has a lot of old ad bad quality equipment), Frenchman, German and US ? 1-3 MWh ? how much in US ?

soon China citizens will get more money (China is growing to be super power, so citizens are more rich than they were)

imagine now 1 bilion of people get PC, TV , car...

than we will have boom with CO2, but yet not China

and concerning big busines ... i really not suck things out of my finger

Edited December 7, 2009 by vilas

[grub 10]

too complicated level of English language, but i am trying to understand that you also see human/busines/industry bad influence on world (pollution etc.)

Sorry about that. I wouldn't say English, my Australian needs the work. We tend to butcher the language a little. Customise I'd like to think:).

I was just saying lets not make this topic a nationalist one.

everyone there have their 6 liter engine, 8 cylinder pickup which use more gasoline than our trucks

we have oil for more than 1 Euro and our engines are 1200, 1600 ccm

not huge pickups

we use low-energy lamps, not bulbs 100W

how much galons of fuel use Polish , French, Czech family and US ?

how much kilowatts use monthly me, Frenchman, German and US ?

Yes I will agree that natural resources are a little over used in the US. And I also agree that Aus is getting a little silly too as we seems to be more and more Hummers and massive F250 "trucks" getting around.

soon China citizens will get more money (China is growing to be super power, so citizens are more rich than they were)

imagine now 1 bilion of people get PC, TV , car...

than we will have boom with CO2, but yet not China

Yes, Kevin Rudd would agree. I digress again.

[vilas 473]

according to some WWF reports and energectic website from PL

US uses almost twice more electricity than whole EUrope

while Europe have more than twice citizens

so...

US citizen use 4-5 times more electricity than European ?

1 US citizen = usage of whole family of Europeans ? (wife, you, 2 children, younger brother/sister ?)

probably the same gasoline factor exist

and because of this some of them deny any environmental problems

Edited December 7, 2009 by vilas

[ICE-Raver 10]

hahahahaha

you show typical american way of thoughts

if someone say that greedy management not care about anything than own big profits (including poisoning activity against environment) than he is communist???

than every sane man is communist too :)

do i have degree ?

MSC , 2002 ended university of technology and because of respect i would not dare to questioning reports of people with professor's degree or doctor's degree, cause the more i learn, the more i see how far i am from being good and the more i need to know

only arrogants and over-self confident ignorants could dare to questioning reports made by scientists, not being scientists themselves

and i work with doctors of chemistry cause i work in one of agencies that also cooperate with market surveillance and i know what greedy companies management do "to have more money"

every educated man, who is trustworthy do not questionize scientists if he has no specialization in mentioned area of science

and if you say about 18 years old ... o god, in PL it is not even secondary school (US college/high school ) finished

students by age of 11 ?

what have you drunk/smoke/injected ???

11 is KID, small KID, not someone who understand anything like global warming

with this i can agree

but rest looks like one joint too much today, 11 years kids understanding scientific methods, 18 years old (still only primary education level) boys educated to understand science reports by professors and doctors... it really sounds like insane man gibberish

kids having 11 years old not know where is Germany, France, Argentina, they not know what happened in 1492, 1789, 1791, 1905 etc. and you call them students ?????????

children, not students !

small children,

18 years old has no "life knowledge"

what i see - complete lack of any humility for people with scientific knowledge and their researches that not fit US lifestyle 25 litters burning engine of 6 litters, 8 cylinders pickup , 3 cars, etc.

i have such humility, cause i have "only" MSc, not "so damn proud" , cause i am far below their knowledge, which i see in some researches laboratories that i visit from time to time , cooperating with market surveillance

big business do mass products, they use many technologies to make "as cheap as possible" and it pollutes, cause for example no cleaning water after process etc.

You know, I've been reading your posts on these forums for sometime now and quite frankly I'm a little sick of your Anti-USA jabs you throw out on a regular basis.

You think we are arrogant because we question these scientists that are spreading lies and propaganda? Well, you are ignorant for not questioning them.

Some of these "Experts" got busted mere weeks ago when their emails were hacked. These hacked emails showed a blatant manipulation of data and supression of data that went against the crap they are trying to shove down everyones throats.

Yet you want to sit here and try to criticize our education levels because we don't fall in line and follow these con-artists like good little lemmings should? gtfo.

This Copenhagen conference is a farce. They are already trying to get the US to GIVE billions of dollars to developing countries to help them go green as a punishment for polluting over the years.

I'll tell you what. If our government gives one red f'n penny to ANY country over this matter you will see a backlash in the US like you have never seen.

You can count on that.

---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 AM ----------

WORLD MEETS TO SAVE EARTH

COPENHAGEN CALLING.

Representative of 192 countries will meet over 12 days to find ways to save our planed from warming up.

AT STAKE the future of the earth for human habitation.

THE EFFECTS millions could be displaced or killed by rising sea levels,extreme weather and declining harvests.india is already experiencing falling wheat,fruit and spice yields.

THE MAIN ISSUE disagreement between the west and developing countries over cutting emissions of gases warming the Earth.

Save world,people do something from your behalf,don't talk take action.

Think where you start

The "MAIN" issue is that they expect the US to dole out billions in cash to China, India and others to help them go green.

Sorry, our economy has enough problems now and China has stolen all of our jobs. Tell them to pay for it there damn selves.

---------- Post added at 11:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------

according to some WWF reports and energectic website from PL

US uses almost twice more electricity than whole EUrope

while Europe have more than twice citizens

so...

US citizen use 4-5 times more electricity than European ?

1 US citizen = usage of whole family of Europeans ? (wife, you, 2 children, younger brother/sister ?)

probably the same gasoline factor exist

and because of this some of them deny any environmental problems

Maybe thats because half our citizens don't live like they are still living in the middle ages. How many Europeans have electricity and live in a house bigger than a shoebox? Hell my living room was almost as big as my buddies entire apartment in Italy.

I've been to Italy, Germany, and Denmark and seen how many people live.

Tiny houses, Tiny cars and most ride bikes and use public transport. How far do you commute for work? I travel minimum of 40 miles per day hauling equipment and supplies. Sorry that don't work on a bicycle.

The US infrastructure isn't set up for that. The US is too large for public transport and bike lanes to be used anywhere but big cities mostly.

That said, I don't drive huge cars. My wife has a VW jetta for what it's worth. But for me I have to have a truck for work.

Edited December 7, 2009 by ICE-Raver

[riffleman 20]

Hey we did't ask for help from USA.

We promise to cut emission by 25%.but what your country doing.what wrong with your government.MR obama should make a clear statement at copenhagen.

[ICE-Raver 10]

Hey we did't ask for help from USA.

We promise to cut emission by 25%.but what your country doing.what wrong with your government.MR obama should make a clear statement at copenhagen.

Somebody has. It's been all over the news here this morning that part of this conference is devoted to getting cash from the US to help developing countries clean up.

If we had money that would be one thing, but we are over 10% unemployment.......in debt to our eyeballs and on the brink of another great depression.

[riffleman 20]

So you measure all help as money.

[Baff1 0]

I don't think they'd object to singing songs for you or waving and cheering if that's what you'd prefer.

Actually, they probably would.

Promises promises.

The thing i note about all these promises is that they are made by people who won't hold office for long enough to deliver them.

It's pretty easy for the British Prime Minister to make a promise about how much we will reduce our carbon by 2020. Made even easier by the fact he is leaving the job in 3 months time.

Obama can promise anything he likes, he won't be around to answer for it in 2020.

All the world's leaders can.

It's the climate conference they can all compete to outdo eachother with how much they can commit, safe in the knowledge that they will never actually have to back up their words.

I take it all with a pinch of salt. I'm sure some CO2 reduction will come out of it. But not enough to screw the economy I hope.

Weasel words. Promises promises.

If you want to save the planet, if you want to reduce CO2, forget Copenhagen, it starts at home. Turn off your PC.

[oyman 0]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/6736517/Copenhagen-climate-summit-1200-limos-140-private-planes-and-caviar-wedges.html

sure seems like they are trying to save the earf

Edited December 7, 2009 by oyman

[Scrub 0]

Hypocrites just like Al Gore. "You little people save the earth for tomorrow (or else you go to jail).. I'm going to live like there's no tomorrow!"

I agree that reduction of emissions and alternate energy production are positive things. However it cannot, what so ever, inhibit my Constitutional freedoms. Post guidelines, methods of accomplishing, and make incentives to do so - but if someone tries to make legislation forcing me to follow some egg-heads unfounded precept, they can go to hell.

Wisdom, intelligence, and proven facts need to underlie the guidelines. I've seen the conscientious effort to fake all those properties. We need reasonableness to enter the equation, not fascist decrees we did not vote on.

[vilas 473]

shoebox... this is reason for all

because 4% of world population want to have large apartments and large cars, 96% of world population has problems

cause one country 4% of world uses 60-80% (depending on branch) energy, resources, goods etc.

thats why this country is problem of world

[stgn 39]

Source? for those numbers

STGN

[riffleman 20]

Hypocrites just like Al Gore. "You little people save the earth for tomorrow (or else you go to jail).. I'm going to live like there's no tomorrow!"

I agree that reduction of emissions and alternate energy production are positive things. However it cannot, what so ever, inhibit my Constitutional freedoms. Post guidelines, methods of accomplishing, and make incentives to do so - but if someone tries to make legislation forcing me to follow some egg-heads unfounded precept, they can go to hell.

Wisdom, intelligence, and proven facts need to underlie the guidelines. I've seen the conscientious effort to fake all those properties. We need reasonableness to enter the equation, not fascist decrees we did not vote on.

Do whatever you want to do.nobody force you.we are doing for mankind.we are not selfish people.our life philoshpy is live and let live other.

Not live and other go to hell whatever you want.

Edited December 8, 2009 by riffleman
Re

[vilas 473]

where from i get those statistics and numbers about usage of energy and goods ?

WWF reports ?

energetic websites reports ???

economic reports ???

4-5% ? 280 milions vs. over 6 bilions (6*10^9) of people

US citizens use almost twice more electrical energy than whole Europe (counted in MWh)

while whole Europe is over twice more people than US has

so if US is 40% of europe and uses over twice energy, than means 1 american uses ca. 4 times more electricity than european

i have no idea how it comes to fuel, but we don't use 8 cylinders 6 litters pickups, but 1.3 liter engines, public transport

usual bus can drive 30-50 people to work burning 30-50 liters of fuel ?

this average 40 people in US drive by 40 cars burning each 15-20 liters ? (unless they use car, not hummers)

40 * 17 = nearly 700 litters vs. average 40 ??? to drive for example 40 statistical units ?

of course bus makes more routes than car of individual , of course we not go 50 km to work

but it is other issue , which of course may a little explanation for differences

but of course to drive to work hummer or big pickup is not necessary, 3 cars for one person is not needed while "Sicko" movie shows other problems

we use trams, trains, buses, public transport much more often

we live in flats 40 square meters, not 6 rooms each 50 meters

how much kilowatts use monthly family in PL (which has a lot of old ad bad quality equipment), Frenchman, German and US ? 1-3 MWh ? how much in US ?

1 toe = 41.868 GJ = 11.630 MWh.

region [mln toe] year on one man [toe]

Europa (OECD data) 519 mln people used 1746 MTOE gives 3,4 on head , not measured poor Ukraina and some Baltic states, all 110 mln people more

USA 273 mln people used 2270 MTOE gives 8,3 on head

this is one of report, in this report US citizen uses nearly 3 times more, but from other reports there are similar, sometimes bigger numbers

it is report about home usage of energy, not industry

if i use 1-3 MWh (1000 KWh) monthly for FAMILY, not me individualy , how much MWh do you use ?

Do whatever you want to do.nobody force you.we are doing for mankind.we are not selfish people.our life philoshpy is live and let live other.

Not live and other go to hell whatever you want.

they are, in many cases (not all), but selfishness is their lifestyle, complete lack of modesty/pudency, over self confidence "i am best i f*** rest" etc. , completely other way than we when it comes to disturbing others (example low MP3 hearing in bus and others surprised "what the problem"), not giving seat to older persons in bus/tram which is a must in our (east) cultures etc. and for them surprise that you must give a place for old and ill and tired

they came from wild-west compete , we came from different religions, but as John Paul 2 (previous pope said) "meter of humanity is how you treat weak and poor" - well in many cases their life addictions is in our manner against humanity and they don't understand, what we hate/see as a problem in their attitude, cause their philosophy is "more money" in many cases

look at civil law ? do they have must in law to support children (guaranted share, legitim, legitimate proportion )?

in our traditional law, if you gave life - you must care,

in their countries father can do child, and give all testimony to next lover, not caring about his children, which for us is crime

for example father made children, had wife, cheated her, has lover, gave money to lover and children get nothing ?

in our law it is must to care for children and pro-west lawyers in my country fight to destroy "moral" regulations from law and turn law to not moral

a lot of law regulations like too big privacy law when you search for someone who owe you money (has debt) and avoid to pay, many things like adress and etc. are protected by privacy law,

we and them have opposite philosophy when it comes to care about each other and solidarity inside society, they call "commie" all that we want as "state and law should care about weaker and poor" , they not ...

and pollution, many bad effects, many wars, many blood for oil is because they need personal truck, not 1.3 liters car, not 10 meter room with one bulb, not electro efficient certificates for products etc.

in Planete TV i saw movies about throwing many trash to ocean etc.

How many Europeans have electricity

hahahahahaha, simply we have "energy efficient" rules, certificates for products and "efficiency" strategy and etc.

Maybe thats because half our citizens don't live like they are still living in the middle ages

we don't live in middle ages, you live, you carry gun, cause someone can kill you behind corner, you have people living in carton boxes on streets, you have ghettos of poor and unemployed, you have tall walls and security to protect rich from poor, you have people without medical care, you have people without school, you have militias in woods/forests with AR15 waiting for end of world, you have KKK, you have legal nazi walking on streets with Svasticas, you have forests full of white shooting extremists, you have many sects like Coresh and effect of this, you have many problems on steets, gangs ruling whole cities, you have people on steets and living in parks, you have people that must join army to get highschool and medical insurance, you have people that lost all due to accident and noone help them, you have education narrower about other countries history, you had till 60's racist segregation, you have many things, we had over century before

do you think we have forests full of extremists waiting and arming children for expected schizo war ?

do we had Coresh or other secta that taken farm and slaving people and using AR15 to seize area ???

this is middle ages

in YT i saw some mass riot problems in cities in US, fights black vs. white, people in brown shirt and swastikas walking in "black neighborhood" and burning stores, houses

you have it, not we

we have higher level of education about other countries and finally, do you speak 2 other country languages ?

cause as you see on this forum we have here people from whole globe, because OFP was concentrated on East Europe cold war, we had big community from east

co can you turn to speak other language ?

or you think that "everyone" should know yours ? than this is real middle age

another middle age ? i can find on YT many examples of real middle age, not in Europe, cause Europe is not middle age

if someone here lost job, he can get help - it is not middle age, middle age is when he die of hunger

middle age is engine which burn twice as can, middle age is freezer using twice than other, middle age is people with guns hiding in forests like banits, middle age is lack of knowledge, roots and big econimical diversity , middle age is clairvoyance belief, middle age is not size of room and number of bulbs but energetically efficiency of products

middle ages - Hulk Hogan and Superman comics vs. Bulhakov, Dostoyevsky, Sienkievich literature

i grown on Nobelists literature and you ? i was in theater and museums many time, and you ?

i don't live in US, i have no idea is our view on you (by MTV, Hulk Hogan, life of Ozzbourne, all those Chuck Norris movies , Merry Melodies cartoons , gangsta-rap is representative)

maybe i judge US looking what TV shows from US as mass-entertainment, but this way it looks to me, mass entertainment for low educated, problems aka "this night actress slept with this actor, next evening she has new dress and new ear ring" and Hulk Hogan and Ozzy Osbourne dog make crap on floor , oooo , what a show

there is very big difference between for example Soilent Green level, Quo Vadis (Polish novel) level and those movies

new version of Count Monte Christo is pathetic comparing to old version , but all this "ambitions" literature learns something, what learns Chuck Noris, Steaven Seagall, Arnie movie or Tom and Jerry toon ? what does it learn human brain ?

and what learn "Crime and Punishment" of Dostoyevsky as comparison

concerning US "demanding" "ambitious" movies i prefer "12 angry men" < http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050083/ this is super movie that i advice to see , than another kick-shoot heroes

so ... EU or US is living in middle age ?

not living in middle age is less primitive mentality, wider knowledge, it is not measured in having bigger TV, bigger truck, more bulbs on square meter and more cars on house

Edited December 8, 2009 by vilas

[Baff1 0]

Do whatever you want to do.nobody force you.we are doing for mankind.we are not selfish people.our life philoshpy is live and let live other.

Not live and other go to hell whatever you want.

I take it then that you do not seek any climate control legislation?

The problem is, he won't be able to do what he wants because they are trying to pass laws making him do what he doesn't want to.

I really dislike being moralised at.

No one is willing to end the world just so they can own a bigger car.

They just don't believe you or they think there are other more important concerns out there to which owning a bigger car is part of the solution.

[Scrub 0]

Do whatever you want to do.nobody force you.we are doing for mankind.we are not selfish people.our life philoshpy is live and let live other.

Not live and other go to hell whatever you want.

I'm sorry for the mis communication Riffleman. Baff has it right, my problem is that there are, RIGHT NOW, people proposing to limit what people can do. To make laws that stop, or at the very least FINE you for being productive. They may be fine for people who have not tasted freedom, but you will have a war, civil or otherwise, in the USA if these pinheads do anything other than make incentives and push renewable technologies. Our freedoms are being stood upon enough. Fight for yours in your country, we'll be doing it here.

Vilas, I'm sorry your country, or the world that you've witnessed, does not have the economic/production mass required to get a priority on resources distribution. With the new technologies coming online this may change, but don't knock the U.S. because they know how get a job done, get paid for it, and use energy in the process. BTW, what you are quoting needs to be conditioned with the truth it needs to have 'production' in the statement. Resources (materials and energy) are produced and scaled with demand, and yes there are limits.

Edit:

they are, in many cases (not all), but selfishness is their lifestyle, complete lack of modesty/pudency, over self confidence "i am best i f*** rest" etc. , completely other way than we when it comes to disturbing others (example low MP3 hearing in bus and others surprised "what the problem"), not giving seat to older persons in bus/tram which is a must in our (east) cultures etc. and for them surprise that you must give a place for old and ill and tired

they came from wild-west compete , we came from different religions, but as John Paul 2 (previous pope said) "meter of humanity is how you treat weak and poor" - well in many cases their life addictions is in our manner against humanity and they don't understand, what we hate/see as a problem in their attitude, cause their philosophy is "more money" in many cases

Uhh, Vilas. You rather pissed me right off on that statement. How much has YOUR country donated to others? Sent in aid for disasters, war refugees, medical emergencies? HMM? How much have you (time or money) PERSONALLY donated? You are acting like a YOUTUBE messiah, garnering all your cultural knowledge from a 12-22 year old demographic, and damning the rest to your own, prideful scorn. What is it that makes you so caustic? really? Envy? Ignorance? Rather than drive down the (over) achiever, how about standing up and trying to join to make the world a better place? The US will get more efficient, it's happening. Again others are used to socialism, communism.. This climate change legislation could easily be nothing more than a power grab. My view: If they offer solutions, it's not. If they make demands, it is.

And you DO have Skinheads and Neo-Nazis;), don't act like you don't.

As for caring about others, you may think you can legislate kindness, but for us, it comes from the heart. We don't need a law to help others, we don't need a fine for not helping or statistics to prove we did a good job. It's called freedom. We have it, some dont. Over here you get from life what you put into it, and you own it and can do with it what you will, not the government. If you don't put much into life, don't expect much. That is what is changing here. Some think they can be lazy, sit on their duffs, do nothing, and someone who actually WORKS for a living will pay for their welfare. Sounds like addons for Arma2.. Tell me Vilas. How much money have you gotten for your outstanding work? We lazy bums get the benefits, and you do all the work, for the satisfaction of a job well done. That's nice and all, but does not pay the bills. :)

Edited December 8, 2009 by Scrub

[ICE-Raver 10]

where from i get those statistics and numbers about usage of energy and goods ?

WWF reports ?

energetic websites reports ???

economic reports ???

4-5% ? 280 milions vs. over 6 bilions (6*10^9) of people

US citizens use almost twice more electrical energy than whole Europe (counted in MWh)

while whole Europe is over twice more people than US has

so if US is 40% of europe and uses over twice energy, than means 1 american uses ca. 4 times more electricity than european

i have no idea how it comes to fuel, but we don't use 8 cylinders 6 litters pickups, but 1.3 liter engines, public transport

usual bus can drive 30-50 people to work burning 30-50 liters of fuel ?

this average 40 people in US drive by 40 cars burning each 15-20 liters ? (unless they use car, not hummers)

40 * 17 = nearly 700 litters vs. average 40 ??? to drive for example 40 statistical units ?

of course bus makes more routes than car of individual , of course we not go 50 km to work

but it is other issue , which of course may a little explanation for differences

but of course to drive to work hummer or big pickup is not necessary, 3 cars for one person is not needed while "Sicko" movie shows other problems

we use trams, trains, buses, public transport much more often

we live in flats 40 square meters, not 6 rooms each 50 meters

how much kilowatts use monthly family in PL (which has a lot of old ad bad quality equipment), Frenchman, German and US ? 1-3 MWh ? how much in US ?

1 toe = 41.868 GJ = 11.630 MWh.

region [mln toe] year on one man [toe]

Europa (OECD data) 519 mln people used 1746 MTOE gives 3,4 on head , not measured poor Ukraina and some Baltic states, all 110 mln people more

USA 273 mln people used 2270 MTOE gives 8,3 on head

this is one of report, in this report US citizen uses nearly 3 times more, but from other reports there are similar, sometimes bigger numbers

it is report about home usage of energy, not industry

if i use 1-3 MWh (1000 KWh) monthly for FAMILY, not me individualy , how much MWh do you use ?

they are, in many cases (not all), but selfishness is their lifestyle, complete lack of modesty/pudency, over self confidence "i am best i f*** rest" etc. , completely other way than we when it comes to disturbing others (example low MP3 hearing in bus and others surprised "what the problem"), not giving seat to older persons in bus/tram which is a must in our (east) cultures etc. and for them surprise that you must give a place for old and ill and tired

they came from wild-west compete , we came from different religions, but as John Paul 2 (previous pope said) "meter of humanity is how you treat weak and poor" - well in many cases their life addictions is in our manner against humanity and they don't understand, what we hate/see as a problem in their attitude, cause their philosophy is "more money" in many cases

look at civil law ? do they have must in law to support children (guaranted share, legitim, legitimate proportion )?

in our traditional law, if you gave life - you must care,

in their countries father can do child, and give all testimony to next lover, not caring about his children, which for us is crime

for example father made children, had wife, cheated her, has lover, gave money to lover and children get nothing ?

in our law it is must to care for children and pro-west lawyers in my country fight to destroy "moral" regulations from law and turn law to not moral

a lot of law regulations like too big privacy law when you search for someone who owe you money (has debt) and avoid to pay, many things like adress and etc. are protected by privacy law,

we and them have opposite philosophy when it comes to care about each other and solidarity inside society, they call "commie" all that we want as "state and law should care about weaker and poor" , they not ...

and pollution, many bad effects, many wars, many blood for oil is because they need personal truck, not 1.3 liters car, not 10 meter room with one bulb, not electro efficient certificates for products etc.

in Planete TV i saw movies about throwing many trash to ocean etc.

hahahahahaha, simply we have "energy efficient" rules, certificates for products and "efficiency" strategy and etc.

we don't live in middle ages, you live, you carry gun, cause someone can kill you behind corner, you have people living in carton boxes on streets, you have ghettos of poor and unemployed, you have tall walls and security to protect rich from poor, you have people without medical care, you have people without school, you have militias in woods/forests with AR15 waiting for end of world, you have KKK, you have legal nazi walking on streets with Svasticas, you have forests full of white shooting extremists, you have many sects like Coresh and effect of this, you have many problems on steets, gangs ruling whole cities, you have people on steets and living in parks, you have people that must join army to get highschool and medical insurance, you have people that lost all due to accident and noone help them, you have education narrower about other countries history, you had till 60's racist segregation, you have many things, we had over century before

do you think we have forests full of extremists waiting and arming children for expected schizo war ?

do we had Coresh or other secta that taken farm and slaving people and using AR15 to seize area ???

this is middle ages

in YT i saw some mass riot problems in cities in US, fights black vs. white, people in brown shirt and swastikas walking in "black neighborhood" and burning stores, houses

you have it, not we

we have higher level of education about other countries and finally, do you speak 2 other country languages ?

cause as you see on this forum we have here people from whole globe, because OFP was concentrated on East Europe cold war, we had big community from east

co can you turn to speak other language ?

or you think that "everyone" should know yours ? than this is real middle age

another middle age ? i can find on YT many examples of real middle age, not in Europe, cause Europe is not middle age

if someone here lost job, he can get help - it is not middle age, middle age is when he die of hunger

middle age is engine which burn twice as can, middle age is freezer using twice than other, middle age is people with guns hiding in forests like banits, middle age is lack of knowledge, roots and big econimical diversity , middle age is clairvoyance belief, middle age is not size of room and number of bulbs but energetically efficiency of products

middle ages - Hulk Hogan and Superman comics vs. Bulhakov, Dostoyevsky, Sienkievich literature

i grown on Nobelists literature and you ? i was in theater and museums many time, and you ?

i don't live in US, i have no idea is our view on you (by MTV, Hulk Hogan, life of Ozzbourne, all those Chuck Norris movies , Merry Melodies cartoons , gangsta-rap is representative)

maybe i judge US looking what TV shows from US as mass-entertainment, but this way it looks to me, mass entertainment for low educated, problems aka "this night actress slept with this actor, next evening she has new dress and new ear ring" and Hulk Hogan and Ozzy Osbourne dog make crap on floor , oooo , what a show

there is very big difference between for example Soilent Green level, Quo Vadis (Polish novel) level and those movies

new version of Count Monte Christo is pathetic comparing to old version , but all this "ambitions" literature learns something, what learns Chuck Noris, Steaven Seagall, Arnie movie or Tom and Jerry toon ? what does it learn human brain ?

and what learn "Crime and Punishment" of Dostoyevsky as comparison

concerning US "demanding" "ambitious" movies i prefer "12 angry men" < http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050083/ this is super movie that i advice to see , than another kick-shoot heroes

so ... EU or US is living in middle age ?

not living in middle age is less primitive mentality, wider knowledge, it is not measured in having bigger TV, bigger truck, more bulbs on square meter and more cars on house

Ok, so you get your stupid opinions about the US from TV shows.

I guess thats TYPICAL thinking for a Pole.

Maybe I should base my opinion of Poland off of all the Dumb Pollack jokes I've heard over the years?

Edited December 8, 2009 by ICE-Raver

[vilas 473]

those jokes are made in US, not here, so they have nothing to : big fuel and electricity consumption, Hulk Hogan is made by US enemies ? guys from Coresh sect were outside US ? i told about facts and culture you produce and show to world, when you told we live in middle ages

i not say about "jokes" but about your own products that you show here and about all news from TV about child who shot others in school and etc.

lack of medical care, free of charge and higher schools free of charge is also "joke" or fact ? why then teenagers enlist army ?

do you not see difference between stupid jokes and facts/reality and products you show in your own TV watched here ?

do you see difference between jokes made in country X and facts from country X seen in other countries in your own CNN, ABC, BBC and english spoken TV and Youtube and Reality TV, MTV and some "911" movies ?

wars of gangs on streets are also jokes ? or facts ?

kids who shoot other is joke ? homeless on streets is also joke ? hmm... if you think your own jokes made in your own country are as equal as facts and your own products than it looks poor, cause you take your "knowledge" about others "from yourselves" while we take knowledge about others from facts that they show themselves

i don't take my knowledge about US from "jokes about US", but from newspapers, tv news, movies from US, articles, organizations etc.

or maybe you learn only from books you wrote yourself ? cause me - i use those wrote by others from different resources and resources itself

or simply cause you not use 1-3 MWh, but 8 and try to "hide it" ?

Edited December 8, 2009 by vilas