A way to remove profanity II

[Master gamawa 0]

HEY HOW ABOUT NUDITY?

Serious question OP.

[Potatomasher 0]

HEY HOW ABOUT NUDITY?

Serious question OP.

If we are talking about generally americans so i think nudity is a big NO. If we can trust the surveys they have made...

They allow childrens to see killings, but porn is not tolerated. I heard in germany it's the other way around. Porn is cool, but violence not. :D

Crazy world i say...

[Master gamawa 0]

I prefer the german way to be honest. I mean nudity is not going to scar a child's innocent mind. Kids be sucking on boobs since the dawn of time, aight? Swearing won't either. Violence is a bigger concern as I don't see it as a good thing for kids to get used to seeing it, even when it's "virtual".

It's all about communicating with your childern and teaching them what's right instead of shielding them from reality.

Your kids are going to hear someone cursing at some point and will repeat it and there is nothing you can do about it! It's part of growing up and challenging the moral staus. It may come from a video game, overheard from a grown-up conversation or from a 'bad' kid at school or whatever. It will happen and it's every parent's job to explain to the kids WHY swearing is not acceptable, instead of trying to make swearing dissapear in a fucking game.

I know this swearing option would make your life easier but being a parent isn't easy and you know that. It's a war. You need diplomacy, education and discipline. Not cencorship. You know who else was all about cencorship and shielding people from the truth?

That's right!

Now go be a good parent, my man.

[bigduksixx 15]

If we are talking about generally americans so i think nudity is a big NO. If we can trust the surveys they have made...

They allow childrens to see killings, but porn is not tolerated. I heard in germany it's the other way around. Porn is cool, but violence not. :D

Crazy world i say...

Yes, in the States nudity is frowned upon. Remember the fuss when some singer flashed a nipple on TV? Due to the obsession with the idea of a god, if Arma2 had dialogue like 'Jesus fucking Christ' it would be banned.

Violence is fine though, due to the ingrained, gun obsessed culture.

Edited August 2, 2009 by BigDukSixx

[nomdeplume 0]

Haha this thread is awesome. Now we're on to nudity!

For DMarkwick: the original suggestion was to make swearing optional, which now seems to have become "make the ambient injury voice samples optional". But I'm a little unsure as to whether this will solve your problem or not. You originally said you didn't want your kids to hear the "strong language" but there's some of that in the campaign and in other, tactical voice samples (e.g. "Fuck, 1 is down!"). Surely you'd need them removed, too?

Anyway, I don't oppose the option, though I think it's unlikely BIS would spend the time to implement - possibly if they'd thought of it (and seen how many people would appreciate it) it could've been factored in from the start.

I'm not sure if a mod would be the best solution since it means altering game data files, so it might make for problems in multiplayer. Of course, the ESRB doesn't rate the online experience, anyway... :)

[dmarkwick 261]

you are wacked out of your mind to have even started a thread about it.

I don't need to be whacked out of my mind to post a suggestion in the suggestions thread. But thanks for the input

You're right in that the thread was aimed at those guys who ridiculed the original thread, and that the original complaint was one of profanity removal, I have been very entertained by the howls of disgust and claims of hypocrisy aimed at a suggestion to make something unnecessary optional. But I think there is a real use for such an option, the saving of resources.

The entire swearing thing - you know, it's just my preference. It doesn't particularly perturb me enough to do anything about it, but while I'm playing I do tend to think "why is that even there?". The "deaths" (laughable that people think of it as anything akin to real violence IMO) are a necessary part of the game, it's integral. It wouldn't make sense without it. It is indeed the entire point of the game. The swearing? *shrug* why exacerbate the certification problems?

I don't feel particularly tough or adult when I hear it, and I certainly use it in day-to-day conversations with people. We don't shy from violence and death in our house, my children all visited their grandma's body when she died. But, when my child sees a dead animal in the road, my instinct is not to say "look son, that's what happens when you don't look where you're fucking going".

And the violence in the game is a looooong way from anything horrible. Please, don't preach to me that it is anything different. It's a cartoon image. BIS are correct to represent battlefield deaths with fairly low-levels of actual gore, for that is not the main thrust of the game. Violence is, in essence, the root of almost every video game ever made, but if it's all the same to people's sensibilities, I'd like the opportunity to save some ingame resources by losing some unnecessary ambient sound logic. Same as if I would decide to lose some graphic flourishes by turning the effects down.

---------- Post added at 06:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------

Yes, in the States nudity is frowned upon. Remember the fuss when some singer flashed a nipple on TV? Due to the obsession with the idea of a god, if Arma2 had dialogue like 'Jesus fucking Christ' it would be banned.

That brings in a rather interesting notion - if we're to be treated to all kinds of profanity due to the strive for reality, where is the racist profanity? Where is the "ragheads", "gooks", and any number of other stuff we can all hear on LiveLeak? :) Like you said, there is also no move toward making religeous profanity either. Too contentious? And yet my suggestion for an option to lose unnecessary voice samples is also contentious. What a wonder that BIS have stumbled onto the exact, precise balance of realism :D

---------- Post added at 06:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 PM ----------

the original suggestion was to make swearing optional, which now seems to have become "make the ambient injury voice samples optional". But I'm a little unsure as to whether this will solve your problem or not. You originally said you didn't want your kids to hear the "strong language" but there's some of that in the campaign and in other, tactical voice samples (e.g. "Fuck, 1 is down!"). Surely you'd need them removed, too?

Anyway, I don't oppose the option, though I think it's unlikely BIS would spend the time to implement - possibly if they'd thought of it (and seen how many people would appreciate it) it could've been factored in from the start.

I'm not sure if a mod would be the best solution since it means altering game data files, so it might make for problems in multiplayer. Of course, the ESRB doesn't rate the online experience, anyway... :)

Well you're right in that BIS won't implement it. The point of this thread is not to demand, it's to suggest. There must be an identifiable bunch of code that looks after the ambient stuff, there's no re-recording necessary to simply not play certain stuff.

However, you're right about the "Fuck, 1 is down" type samples :) but then, I'm sure I've heard other samples that say the same thing without the "fuck". My kid, lying on the floor playing with his own toys, doesn't need to hear it.

[bigduksixx 15]

That brings in a rather interesting notion - if we're to be treated to all kinds of profanity due to the strive for reality, where is the racist profanity? Where is the "ragheads", "gooks", and any number of other stuff we can all hear on LiveLeak? :) Like you said, there is also no move toward making religeous profanity either. Too contentious? And yet my suggestion for an option to lose unnecessary voice samples is also contentious. What a wonder that BIS have stumbled onto the exact, precise balance of realism :D

There are no racist names for the adversaries depicted in the game. If there were I would be in favour of using them. But we definitely need some blasphemy to be included.

Edited August 2, 2009 by BigDukSixx

[froggyluv 2130]

And the violence in the game is a looooong way from anything horrible. Please, don't preach to me that it is anything different. It's a cartoon image. .

Your asking people not to preach to you that the violence in-game is not horrible and thereby suitable for your young children to be present while the language is not. I strongly disagree with you here, sorry. Those happen to be your specific values and that is fine but you cannot expect everyone else's values to reflect yours.

Case in point, I called my GF over to watch what happened after some certain civilians were killed on a mission I was building, and not even thinking, gunned down the old lady civilian and many others at point blank range to get the trigger to fire (bad move on my part). She gasped and gave me this look like I'm not the man she thought I was and stormed away disgusted :butbut: I certainly wouldn't want my 2 yo niece sitting on my lap while I'm playing such a game as she is not old enough to process this type of violence as "Ok" and that is exactly why this game has the rating it does -it is the adults responsibility to take appropriate measures to shield young kids from offensive material, not the game, movie or Tv show's producers.

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

Personally I think that while DMarckwick has raised a valid point about being able to remove the clutter, his whole argument for not having swearing is fundamentally flawed.

And I quote:

My kid, lying on the floor playing with his own toys, doesn't need to hear it.

Assuming said kid is old enough to be processing the information being received by his/her eyes as well as ears then playing war sims in the same room is just as irresponsible as allowing them to watch Rambo.

[bigduksixx 15]

My kid, lying on the floor playing with his own toys, doesn't need to hear it.

Put some headphones on then. There you go, the whole problem is now solved.

Thread closed.

[dmarkwick 261]

Personally I think that while DMarckwick has raised a valid point about being able to remove the clutter, his whole argument for not having swearing is fundamentally flawed.

I really don't see how posting a suggestion for personal preference can be seen as flawed.

Assuming said kid is old enough to be processing the information being received by his/her eyes as well as ears then playing war sims in the same room is just as irresponsible as allowing them to watch Rambo.

Or perhaps Dawn Of The Dead? Or Pulp Fiction? Any other ridiculously inappropriate films you care to mention or is Rambo the definitive benchmark? Is Rambo the entertainment argument's version of Hitler? My kid is not even in the same room as me, however audio has that particular property of being experienced without having to be directed toward it. It's amazing how people will form a picture in their heads about what goes on someplace they've never been. Witness all the posts here complaining of allowing my children to watch the terrible sights that the game ArmA2 has to offer, yet denying them the cozy experience of swearing at them.

[bigduksixx 15]

I really don't see how posting a suggestion for personal preference can be seen as flawed.

Or perhaps Dawn Of The Dead? Or Pulp Fiction? Any other ridiculously inappropriate films you care to mention or is Rambo the definitive benchmark? Is Rambo the entertainment argument's version of Hitler? My kid is not even in the same room as me, however audio has that particular property of being experienced without having to be directed toward it. It's amazing how people will form a picture in their heads about what goes on someplace they've never been. Witness all the posts here complaining of allowing my children to watch the terrible sights that the game ArmA2 has to offer, yet denying them the cozy experience of swearing at them.

So wear a headset then! I bet you do when you watch porn.

[dmarkwick 261]

So wear a headset then! I bet you do when you watch porn.

I never, ever, listen to porn.

[NeMeSiS 11]

So wear a headset then! I bet you do when you watch porn.

Of course not, then he cant alt+tab it away and pull up his pants when the wife is about to come in. ;)

[Master gamawa 0]

I never, ever, listen to porn.

lol I am sorry that was very funny can I use it as a signature please? oh my god :)

[dmarkwick 261]

lol I am sorry that was very funny can I use it as a signature please? oh my god :)

:) heh

[mrcash2009 0]

Im not going to ridicule and people deserve more of a choice (if it was modded so be it, if it was an implemented option so be it), but I do find it ironic that people don't like swearing but will play a military game which its main existence and goal is to simulate killing a human.

So you will gladly simulate sniping a man in the head, but if your spotter said "Sir, I see enemy on that F****ing ridge" .. your would be appalled at his behavior?

This is a sim and real life on the field (and in any workplace) me thinks you will find people swear, especially in situations like stress and military (venting etc).

The PEGI rating clearly shows theres swearing so, well, its no real shock. Theres a smell of political correctness in this somewhere .. we don't want that now do we.

I'm sure I've heard other samples that say the same thing without the "fuck". My kid, lying on the floor playing with his own toys, doesn't need to hear it.

The flip is, your son/daughter doesn't need to be near a game rated for older than his/her age seeing something/hearing simulating killing either, right? Or wear headphones maybe? If it was a war film wouldn't that also be the same too?

If you saw a war film with no swearing in it what so ever even in full hardcore battle can you honestly say it was realistic? I think if I saw one of my men get hit (or killed) by a bullet, or if I got injured from a bullet .. I may just pop out a little naughty word just a teeny weeny bit given the circumstances and the gravity of the situation.

It maybe safe to say, "if you don't like it, mod it. If you really don't like it don't play it".

Edited August 3, 2009 by mrcash2009

[nomdeplume 0]

I think people need to get over the "censorship" thing and just see it as being a valid option for how people experience the game. For example we have sliders to set the relative volumes of different types of audio in the game to suit player preferences.

Hypothetically, what if BIS had implemented radio chatter that sounded real, i.e. virtually unintelligible? How many people would appreciate an option to make it clearer so they could actually hear what was being said over the radio, even though it would be less realistic? How many people would be arguing that shouldn't be an option and people should be forced to listen to hiss crackle mumble mumble enemy mumble one hundred mumble?

Or, what if BIS had recorded English-language versions of all the Russian voices (using a Russian accent) so English-speaking players could have that as an option? And what if they'd recorded all the campaign voice tracks in various languages so people could play i while listening to their own native language - would that be unacceptably unrealistic?

Personally, I wouldn't use a no-swearing option, but I do use the option to disable post-processing because I don't like the effects, and I set the terrain detail to minimum because I find the game more enjoyable to play like that.

It's not about people's personal opinions on whether violence or sex or nudity or drugs or swearing or religion or lack of religion are worse than eachother. It's just an expression of an option some people would like as it would improve their own game experience, and it's an option that seems to have a fair bit of support -- although most of the supporters are probably keeping silent lest they be ridiculed by the morally superior pro-coarse-language brigade.

[mrcash2009 0]

It's just an expression of an option some people would like as it would improve their own game experience, and it's an option that seems to have a fair bit of support -- although most of the supporters are probably keeping silent lest they be ridiculed by the morally superior pro-coarse-language brigade.

I agree with this, if people want it in and its an "option" then cool no issue, but there's just that slight niggle if hypocrisy on the basis of the nature of the game the option is for. Which i guess non supporters are referring too who aren't necessarily just "morally superior pro-coarse-language brigade" as such.

That tag is a bit left/right .. shades of grey in this for sure.

I think being shocked or suprised at "non supporters" is hard to justify from a morality standpoint when the argument is based on a game that's based on war .. kind of takes the sting out when you look at the bigger picture. That said, a choice is a choice.

Edited August 3, 2009 by mrcash2009

[BlackLord 0]

Soldiers swear in real life so I don't have problem with swearing in this game. In fact things like this make your team mates more human in ArmA they sounded and acted like a bunch of mindless battle droids.

Edited August 3, 2009 by BlackLord

[nomdeplume 0]

Which i guess non supporters are referring too who aren't necessarily just "morally superior pro-coarse-language brigade" as such.

That tag is a bit left/right .. shades of grey in this for sure.

Yes I was just poking a bit of fun and trying to get the people saying "no omg hypocrite!" to re-evaluate their thought processes.

Here's a dumber example: ever since I was a kid I was fascinated by helicopters but neither me nor my parents knew the proper name for them, because I grew up in a small tribal village. We just called them "whirlyroars", after the whirling motion of the rotor and the loud noise they make when they're close.

While I now know their correct term and the commonly used nicknames for them, I'd really like it to have an option for all the voice samples referring to "helicopters" or "choppers" or "helos" to be changed to "whirlyroars" or "whirlies". The term just reminds me of simpler, happier times as a boy, and would give me a warm fuzzy feeling when I'm playing the game.

...

Obviously the appropriate response to this would be "that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and no way should BIS or anyone waste their time implementing a stupid option like this for one person".

But what if dozens of other people on the forum posted/voted that they agreed, and would also like an option to have so-called "helicopters" known by their proper name of whirlyroars? A few dozen votes in the forum likely represents many thousands of actual players (since most people don't use the forums), and if an option is wanted by enough people to justify the time it'd take to implement, then it should be implemented.

That's all this thread should be about. Not about whether people who'd prefer not to have swearing in the game, either because they disapprove of it or don't want their kids hearing it or because their potted plant told them it didn't like swearing -- the reason doesn't matter. What matters is whether it's a popular option and reasonably easy to implement.

My feeling is that if it'd been planned from the beginning, it'd be an easy option for BIS to have added. Retrofitting it would be difficult, and also presents a bit of a problem: what happens if they miss a sample or a subtitle? An unofficial user-made mod can get away with it, but if it's an official option people will likely be very very angry if it doesn't remove 100% of the profanity. So, I think while the request/suggestion is perfectly reasonable, it's very unlikely to be filled by BIS.

[stevevcb 3]

I know it's been said umpteen times, but I really don't understand the mentality of people who're playing a game which is pretty much based around killing human beings, but are gravely offended by someone saying "shit" or "fuck." That's like being angry at an arsonist because he didn't have any trousers on when he set fire to someone's dog.

Also, I disagree with the whole "few votes on a forum = thousands of supporters who haven't spoken up" idea. It's possible that this is the case, but it's also possible that those who have voiced their opinion are a vocal minority, and the majority of people disagree. You can't base any sort of decision on supposition, you have to rely on what you know. For example, you wouldn't elect a political party into power that had fewer votes because you think everyone likes them more. At the end of the day, more people voted for Party A, and even if most people prefer Party B, they didn't make themselves heard and were therefore totally irrelevant to the outcome.

Anyway, back on topic, I reckon if anything ArmA 2 needs more swearing. Ideally, I would like for there to be a key that would make my guy let fly a constant stream of abuse and profanity as long as it's held down. It could be done like the rest of the speech, in that it's put together out of loads of individual words and phrases. Perhaps it could also be linked into the command system, so if I select the second man in my group and press the swearing key, I could tell him what a useless cretin he is, suggest that his mother was a lady of negotiable affection, and that I am going to lodge my footwear in his colon unless he promptly returns to his position within the formation.

[ashikar 0]

It's all about communicating with your childern and teaching them what's right instead of shielding them from reality.

Your kids are going to hear someone cursing at some point and will repeat it and there is nothing you can do about it! It's part of growing up and challenging the moral staus. It may come from a video game, overheard from a grown-up conversation or from a 'bad' kid at school or whatever. It will happen and it's every parent's job to explain to the kids WHY swearing is not acceptable, instead of trying to make swearing dissapear in a fucking game.

I know this swearing option would make your life easier but being a parent isn't easy and you know that. It's a war. You need diplomacy, education and discipline. Not cencorship. You know who else was all about cencorship and shielding people from the truth?

That's right!

Now go be a good parent, my man.

+1.... You hit the nail on the head my friend.. I noticed Dmark had a smart ass answer for everyone elses comment, but he didnt touch on his bad parenting when you made this post..

[dmarkwick 261]

I know it's been said umpteen times, but I really don't understand the mentality of people who're playing a game which is pretty much based around killing human beings

If it was about killing human beings it would come in a bigger box and have a gun inside :)

It's simple: preference. That's all.

[able78 10]

come on give DMarkwick a break.. hes clearly a mormon