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Aiming difficulties with ironsights and aimpoints

What do you think about aiming with ironsights and aimpoints in Arma 2  

255 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you think about aiming with ironsights and aimpoints in Arma 2

    • No problem it reacts as it should...don't change anything!
      83
    • Not perfect but it's ok.
      92
    • It doesn't feel natural.
      60
    • Forget aimpoints and ironsights I'm using the crossair now.
      27


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I don't know if it's a bug or a "feature" but sometimes my guns sight is misaligned and hard to aim, ie. sometimes the gun is tilted down a bit. Does somebody have the same problem?

Also, the aimpoint doesn't work like it does in real life. The red dot seems to be just a fixed texture on the lens. In real life the dot should move on the lense practically showing where the bullet will hit which makes aiming easier and faster than iron sights. In arma it won't and this makes it difficult to hit targets when the gun wobbles and the red dot doesn't accommodate to the gun movement.

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Just made a search on youtube so everyone knows what I mean about the aimpoint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55RsdpXsuwE&feature=related

That's how the aimpoint should behave when the gun sways while aiming. In arma at the moment the dot won't accommodate and the bullet will not always hit the target spot.

Thats right King, afaik the aimpoint sight should be somehow like in

Yup, that's called optical sight. Works the same way.

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This could also be the reason why aiming in 3rd person is so much easier then through the weapon sights, although I'd enjoy to use the sights if they work properly.

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Aiming with crosshairs is easier than just about anything, in-game or IRL, unless you're shooting so far away that the standard zoom isn't enough and you need a scope.

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Crosshairs in real life? How can you even compare live shooting with mouse button clicking anyway? *ugh* :headscratch:

Anyway, I'd enjoy the ironsights much more then the crosshairs. :rolleyes:

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Comparing in-game corsshairs to IRL sights and to in-game sights, of course....

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Aiming with crosshairs is easier than just about anything, in-game or IRL, unless you're shooting so far away that the standard zoom isn't enough and you need a scope.

Umm I don't quite follow you, do you possibly mean "iron sights" by "crosshair"? Or do you mean that it's easier to use the crosshair than the actual sights? In that case of course it is but it's more fun to play it the realistic way, duh. :rolleyes:

Anyway the aimpoints are unusable sometimes when the gun sways horribly and the red dot points far away from the actual impact point. I can think of two ways to fix it. Either rework the sight so that the dot is not fixed on the texture, instead it would float on the lense pointing always at the impact point. The easier way is to rework the gun swaying so that the whole gun is always at the same line with the players head. This way the dot would point at the right direction too.

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Well, they *should* have given you a reason to use sights, but I guess making a crosshair that doesn't give full accuracy while still keeping the "bullets go where the barrel points" principle is rather impossible, at least not without removing the crosshairs ;)

I play on expert for more realism, but if a server isn't running expert I'd feel stupid not using the crosshairs. It's not my job to artificially force myself to play realistically, it's the game's job to make me need to play realistically to be effective. Going by "just force yourself to play realistically where the game doesn't deliver" you can even say CS is realistic because you don't have to run like crazy and bunny hop, and when you get shot once you can quit.

Edited by galzohar

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Just use the minimal crosshair addon dude. Be a GOSH DARNED MAN!

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=80358&highlight=minimal+crosshair

The game isn't about wining. It's about having fun and challenging your self. Some people choose to get rid of any kind of crosshair (or indicator as to where their weapon is pointing at) and they still have a great time.

I find the default crosshair to be tempting enough to be used instead of ironsights and that's just wrong.

WRONG!

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Doesn't

The game isn't about wining. It's about having fun and challenging your self. Some people choose to get rid of any kind of crosshair (or indicator as to where their weapon is pointing at) and they still have a great time.

Contradict

I find the default crosshair to be tempting enough to be used instead of ironsights and that's just wrong.

WRONG!

?

Also, last time I checked, this was supposed to be the ultimate military simulation, not the ultimate military role playing game! If RP playstyle is what suits you, then enjoy, there are quite a few people that do (the guy that would never run because he plays a "gnome with broken leg", or the clan that plays pistols only because that's all their unit can afford, or just your average "X unit ("realism") squad" from the "squads and fanpages" subsection). However the majority of the population does not prefer the RP kind of gaming, and this game isn't RP. Real armies try to win their battles, nothing more and nothing less.

Of course, we at least have the option to run a server on expert and thus RP elements are not required for sights to be used, unfortunately most players don't go that way. I bet if default difficulty would be expert (you can still set it to whatever you want, but if you just press "ok ok ok continue ok continue" it would be on expert) then a lot more servers would be running it. Heck, you can see that the amount of servers that run recruit or veteran is less than the ones running expert, even though they are both "closer" to what the massively-played difficulty (aka regular) provides than expert.

Edited by galzohar

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I hope especially the aimpoints will be fixed so the sights could be used effectively. At the moment I'm forced to keep the crosshairs enabled due to this problem.

Also, last time I checked, this was supposed to be the ultimate military simulation, not the ultimate military role playing game!

Huh? Isn't realistic features that simulations are all about? I don't undestand what you mean. Things like crosshairs doesn't make this game a simulation, it's the other way around.

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I meant that forcing yourself not using an unrealistic feature (crosshairs) in the game in order to get a more realistic feel is more suited for RP games than simulation games. People keep saying "but you don't have to use the unrealistic features", but that doesn't meant those features should stay, at least not on serious servers.

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I just feel it's not very realistic to be able to zoom without optics.

As was explained by the 2nd poster, it's not zoom per say. It's simulating the human eye's ability to discern more detail at a distance than a screen can simulate for you. So, since the screen can't do it, the zoom function was put in to give some semblance of more detail.

Personally, as an ex-Corpsman, I think it's rather ingenious and makes perfect sense.

The only thing that kind of gets me, is that all games have this thing with making snipers hold their breath when concentrating which is the furthest from the truth. Calm and relaxed breathing is all that snipers do. Holding your breath is bad. So, why BIS tried to portrait all this realism and then didn't represent this in Arma 2 is beyond me.

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It really depends. You can see in AA2 they insisted on uncontrolled breathing system since "the army trains to shoot between breathing cycles and not hold breath", yet AA3 allows breath holding. In the IDF I was trained to hold my breath at the end of the breathing cycle, and never for longer than a few seconds (except when you're shooting while breathing heavily due to running beforehand, in which case you should hold your breath at the top of the breathing cycle and hold it for even less time). Of course the current implementation of breath holding is still pretty terrible.

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I'm an Army vet of the current war and I also own real AR-15's and an Aimpoint.I have extensive real world experience and can say the recoil simulation of 5.56/M-16/M-4 is overly exaggerated.Maybe its to level the playing field against the AK in 5.45 and 7.62x39 in the game,I don't know.One things for sure,its a lot easier to aim and shoot accurately in the real world then it is in this simulation.This is not a flame or put down to BIS as they have the most realistic product out there but it would help if it was tweaked some.I have also noticed that when you shoot targets that are prone or crawling at medium distances that the rounds often do not strike the target,they will hit just above or the ground below the intended target.Adjusting your aim does not seem to rectify this.A good deal of the time the bullet just refuses to strike the soldier targeted when prone.

Edited by WarriorM4

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Based on my RL shooting experience, shooting in game, while improperly simulated, is much much easier than shooting IRL. IRL shooting a target at 400m with an M24 when standing up took extreme effort and I still only hit the 1st shot and missed the other 4. Shooting at 300m prone without a bipod or other support takes some effort too to stabilize the weapon well enough to score a hit. Weapons in the game are WAY more stable than they should be, especially when standing/crouching and especially with the bigger/heavier weapons.

An M240 is almost impossible to hold aimed when standing/crouching, not to mention actually keep it on target. M107 is almost as hard. In-game it seems all weapons are the same, and standing/crouching don't hurt your shooting ability much compared to prone, not to mention the effect of a bipod is either not there at all or poorly simulated. When you test this, though, keep in mind that getting up from prone pretty much drains your entire stamina, so wait until your breath catches up before you do any comparisons ;)

Recoil in the game is also done pretty badly, seems like a total "X weapon has Y recoil, Z weapon has W recoil", with recoil always being at the same direction and compensated for by the in-game character at the same speed, rather than matching the recoil effects to the actual weapons. Right now if you fire at a certain rate of fire you will always hit at the same spot (aside from some minimal spread due to the minor instability/breathing effects).

Aimpoints are totally wrong in this game, as mentioned many times already. Beats 1/2 the point of using them, though they're probably still better than ironsights since while they obscure a bigger % of your screen, they obscure less of the target area.

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Based on my RL shooting experience, shooting in game, while improperly simulated, is much much easier than shooting IRL. IRL shooting a target at 400m with an M24 when standing up took extreme effort and I still only hit the 1st shot and missed the other 4. Shooting at 300m prone without a bipod or other support takes some effort too to stabilize the weapon well enough to score a hit. Weapons in the game are WAY more stable than they should be, especially when standing/crouching and especially with the bigger/heavier weapons.

An M240 is almost impossible to hold aimed when standing/crouching, not to mention actually keep it on target. M107 is almost as hard. In-game it seems all weapons are the same, and standing/crouching don't hurt your shooting ability much compared to prone, not to mention the effect of a bipod is either not there at all or poorly simulated. When you test this, though, keep in mind that getting up from prone pretty much drains your entire stamina, so wait until your breath catches up before you do any comparisons ;)

Recoil in the game is also done pretty badly, seems like a total "X weapon has Y recoil, Z weapon has W recoil", with recoil always being at the same direction and compensated for by the in-game character at the same speed, rather than matching the recoil effects to the actual weapons. Right now if you fire at a certain rate of fire you will always hit at the same spot (aside from some minimal spread due to the minor instability/breathing effects).

Aimpoints are totally wrong in this game, as mentioned many times already. Beats 1/2 the point of using them, though they're probably still better than ironsights since while they obscure a bigger % of your screen, they obscure less of the target area.

Good points and also different strokes for some folks I guess.Will agree on Aimpoint issues though.Its pretty hard to model stuff like stamina and breathing in a game because all shooters are generally different in their handling of stress and exhaustion.

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I also found some issues with aimpoints and some of the iron sights. First of all, I had no issues whatsoever in ArmA 1 and I don't have a "lag" issue - I get decent frame rates. The issues are different, some are definitely bugs, some are likely.

Bug 1:

Aimpoint and some iron sights get out-of-alignment. What this means is that the character seems to hold the weapon in totally useless ways, where the aimpoint and the iron sight or the front/back iron sights are not aligned anymore. This is obviously a bug, because after a while it randomly corrects, especially after rapid mouse movements. It also seems to happen more in crouched position. This out-of-alignment is sometimes massive, I've already seen 200+ pixels - it's as if the character is holding the rifle vertically, even though the butt is sitting at the shoulder - crouched targeting position.

Bug 2 (?):

Massive weapon movement even when unhurt. This is different from weapon sway in that the amount is huge - ~50-70 pixels or so away from the center (where the weapon is supposed to be pointing.) It seemingly happens randomly, I cannot reproduce it but I've seen it several times already. It also gets fixed by something random. I've seen this in zoomed weapon mode (after pressing Insert to bring up the sights.)

Bug 3 (?):

Something seems to be wrong with ballistics. In ArmA 1, I can reasonably hit targets with the aimpoint and with the M16/M4 or with AK-74 out to ~200-300m. I already played through the ArmA 2 campaing, but I wasn't able to hit anything with the M4 Holo beyond about 25-50 m. Because of #1 above, the same goes for the aimpoint. I ended up using iron sight M16-s (or M4?) because even with #1, it still feels the most accurate somehow.

I have a hard time imagining that I'd be so bad at this after years of playing OFP/ArmA 1 - something feels wrong about the weapons, but I cannot pinpoint what. I did miss in ArmA 1, but nowhere near as badly as in ArmA 2.

As I said, I had no weapon problems in ArmA 1, so this must be some kind of new behavior/bug in A2. Has anybody else seen these problems?

Edited by xxbbcc

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I think I already posted this like on the 3rd page but anyway...

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The problem i have with ironsights and aimpoints in general in ArmA 2 is that sometimes front and rearsights will misalign horizontally, causing me to miss a big amount of shots because somehow the barrel is pointing somewhere different from where i want to aim at.

At some times the front pin you use to aim with isn't even visible, just the rearsight.

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I think I already posted this like on the 3rd page but anyway...

And what's that, an addon for arma 1? Can that be imported to arma 2? Or could BIS possibly implement this in the next patch?:p

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