Realism, arma 2,

[Placebo 29]

4 IN 1 don't spam please.

This thread isn't about ArmA2 versus some other game, if the topic of discussion from the original post has ended then the thread can be closed.

[walker 0]

I think most people bashing this game are just upset...

Hi DirtyD

Do not worry they are very much the minority, probaly less than 20 in what is shaping up to be a multi million seller game and fast heading to GOTY status.

A fair number of the trolls have turned out to be the same guy faking up accounts, the moddies have even caught them.

The difference between a whining troll and some one with a real bug is that the latter reports it in the touble shooting section of the forum in case it is just a setting problem and then if its confirmed as a bug, they promote it to community issue tracker so the bug can be tracked down and killed.

Real ArmA II players who want to show something is wrong provide a repeatable test mission to help developers track down the bug.

The best ArmA II community members people like fabrizio_T actualy run experiments to focus on any complex game feel bugs and get an understanding of what is wrong. Such active members are recognised and thanked and most importantly the bugs they report get fixed.

But trolls are just trolls and will never amount to much.

Anyway getting back to the OP's point in starting this thread. Yes there is need for sight adjustment. We know it can and will be done in a MOD but I too plea for the function to be available in say an official Module in a patch perhaps? What would also be nice in the long run is the ability to get a base weapon then add, sights, silencers, grenade launchers, thermal sights, lights etc. I know BIS are moving in that direction.

Kind Regards walker

Edited July 1, 2009 by walker

[Kristian 47]

maybe all snipers in ArmA2 have a fancy laser sight that automatically adjusts the scope acording to range :D

[An Fiach 10]

Everybody on the internet is a delta force sniper

[HmoobSoldier 10]

For someone nitpicking the sniping aspects of the game I thought they would atleast use the terms correctly. The word "sniper" is the actual person that does the sniping, not the rifle. If you're talking about the rifle that snipers use then it's considered as a "sniper rifle".

[cartier90 0]

Is it possible for a patch to allow me to put the cross hair of a sniper rifle on a far off target without calculating

gravity ?, it is annoying with the M24 to be aiming at 3.5 mils above a target at 600/700 m. I assume IRL that range mil

adjustments would mean a cross hairs aim point for such a shot ?

Another quick Q, how on earth do Laser rangefinders work, I know they calculate the speed of light divided by the time it

takes for the 'echo' but how on earth does a laser 'bounce off' grass or a human - logic would say it would need a mirrored

surface no ?

[Erius 10]

It would be nice to have alot of the features patched into the official game, as I know that on some peoples computers Ace for Arma 1 almost cut their frame rate in half.

[frederf 0]

cartier, laser rangefinders read the back scatter off most objects. Mirror not required. There are some surfaces that make it really hard to get a range to but most stuff works just fine. Imagine that a bomb seeker in a bomb at 10,000' has no problem seeing the tiny laser dot's scattered light shone from 2,000m away on a tent's fabric.

Erius, don't bring up the old broken "well if you want adjustable sights it's going to cut framerates in half" lie.

[Erius 10]

I wasn't talking about adjustable sights, I was talking about Ace mod as a whole's affect on performance.

[cartier90 0]

I am happy with performance at the mo, but would not take a 'hit' on it, there just isnt the breathing space over and above 30fps. If I was running at 80fps down to 50, no probs...;)

Interesting frederf, anyoone know if a sniper rifle exists that automatically adjusts scope to a laser sight - or is this not passive enough....

[Balgorg 10]

The so called 'Magical Healing' ability was intoduced because it was something that fans of the series asked for.

It evolved in the multiplayer, which ofcourse has an ability to respawn. Without respawn, and without a heal ability, mutiplayer would most likely consist of: Load up mission-rearm-trudge for 10 minutes-spot enemy-get shot.

With these 'unrealistic' abilities multiplayer is fun, and worth while.

The truth is that realism sux, and would never make a good game.

How much realism do you want? The need to drink, eat, shit and piss? Get shot and spend the remaining game experince permanently wounded, or disfigured?

Train for 4 years befor flying a copter?

These are all rather stupid assertions, but they point out the obvious.

I think the term 'Realism' shouldnt be used in regards to arma, despite the efforts to simulate certain aspects of real combat. Arma is different, its not COD, or unreal, and its not OfP2. Its also not real, its a game.

[cartier90 0]

I say only for the hardcore, to send out optional very high voltage batteries along with the game, hook up various bodily parts then commence game. Obviously a fatal shot would kill the gamer - Id be very , very careful in a mission then. ;)

[Balgorg 10]

Your behaviour on these forums would indicate otherwise.

As I said in the latest infraction, one more and you'll get +2 taking you over the edge to a permanent ban, this is your final chance to decide if you want to start acting like someone who cares to belong in this community.

Why did you ban this player from the forums, dvolk I mean?

'Your behaviour on these forums would indicate otherwise' totally untrue, I have been and read the post he made, since he joined, and while he does make criticisms, he also makes a equal number of praises for the game. If you bother to read his posts you will see that is the case.

I dont think I read one post where he really said anything that was to awfull to bear? If someone buys a game, and then wants to resolve the issues, surely they have the right to make their opinions known. dvolk does not jump on people and call them a 'troll' like many of the 'fanboys' do, but still you suspend. In this particular thread, people really seemed to gang up on him, and finally the biggest bully steps up to deal the death blow.

[Placebo 29]

Posting opinion is fine, jumping onto every thread and posting the same negative things over and over and over in an excessively exaggerated and inflammatory manner is not fine, he received warnings, he received temporary infractions, he continued to act exactly the same and thus he received a final infraction.

[JOGR 0]

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

Don't get ticked off by Codies disinformation agents/fanboys roaming around trying to discredit and ridicule ARMA2. When it comes to military realism, complexity and depth, both online and offline, then ARMA2 stands alone against the mass. Doubt it not.

[Mark XIII (DayZ) 18]

^^ +1 on that :)

[roadrunner20 10]

i can understand that if you put proper realism ie sniper into the game it could be called too noob freindly, ie point and shoot, but i think it be a better idea to change the interface as such it possible to press lets say "X key/Zkey" to change the "knobs" on the scope to allow for windage and bullet drop ect.

for atm using the mouse to "aim higher" or move crosshair above the target is personally i feel much much worse then point and shoot snipers as the whole point of a sniper is to sight the target then observe and if needed take out, using this mouse above target or moving left/right to get a shot purely because the game isnt properly made for snipers ect, is terrible.

people will know, keeping the target locked on/eyes on very important and the game codes, which need you to move the mouse above then left/right just so that you can get a kill really is bad, and i not blaming this DEV team as it common with games to pretend to be realistic then spoil this with such terrible processes like this.

i just hope soon we have a game where it realistic in crosshair terms and you dont need to piss about with the mouse to get head shots.

maybe using the number pad could be used to input the windage and bullet drop into the sniper ie:

target is 1000mtrs away, you then press lets say X key 3-4 times, then windage is X amount this you press X key so many times in relation.

just like the SUSAT scope, with the "knobs" for 400,600,800, ect,

[sparks50 0]

I guess your gonna have to wait for the ACE2 mod :)

And I agree, adjustable sniper scopes(and adjustable grenade launchers too) is very important when you need the first shot to hit(because after the first shot the enemy will dive for cover).

As demonstrated by the ACE mod in Armed Assault, it really is useful for game play, and not just some useless military-sim-geek-gizmo that it may sound like.

Also, it does not increase difficulty for beginners, because the adjustment is option able to use and can easily be ignored.

Edited July 3, 2009 by sparks50

[cartier90 0]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/23-10/index.html

This link has TONS of info on the M24 and how its sighted and zeroed for wind, round type.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/ - for more general info.

[bricks 6]

As you can see you need to put the crosshair above the target, THIS IS 100% UNREALISTIC and i feel this a major issue which games are doing and is terrible, When using a sniper you ALLWAYS, keep the crosshair on target, this one of the basics you are told/beaten into, bullet deviation is calculated via the "knobs" on the weapon system/sniper. wind ect.

If your going to complain about "Non-realistic" features of the game at least pretend to know what your talking about.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/23-10/index.html Look at Chapter 3, section V - Hold off. "Holdoff is shifting the point of aim to achieve a desired point of impact". Hold off is a trained sniper concept that is exactly what you use in Arma 2.

I agree that an adjustment feature would be nice but stating real known sniper techniques (hold off) to be "100% UNREALISTIC" is ignorant and shows that you really have no basis for your argument.

Another less important, but important non the less is the targeting system, for example:

When you call out target or squad leader gives one it usually:"enemy rifleman, far in front, XXXmtr", or "enemy BMP XXXm far right"

In real life this is never said nor done, we use the milles system or EU uses the degree system, and i feel that this "simulator" should as such use it, the ye olde clock method is still good but very rarely used in game.

i feel the game would be much better with the milles or degree system, using silly sayings like far right, far left, close right , is bad method and would get you beasted in real life.

This point is far from the mark . Firstly it's Mils (Shortened from Milli-radians) not milles, but that's forgivable. There are trained methods soldiers use to call out contacts/targets. Using Mils or Degrees is extremely rare, compass' are not always issued to every soldier, so without one the use of Mils/Degrees isn't useful Unlike Arma (no fault of the game) It takes several seconds to shoot a bearing with a compass and after the bearing has been read out it will take several seconds to put in the bearing and find the target. This simply doesn't happen in regular squads. Specialized teams such as sniper/spotters or FOOs are an exception

To hear reference points, cardinal directions and terms like "right side" or "half left" is extremely common. These are very human and everyone will be able to understand them easily. Arma 2 does a good job with this and yes may not be the easiest system to interpret but that doesn't mean its not commonly used.

Again please don't act or insinuate that you have or your job has provided you with real experience when it evidently has not and you have little to no idea about "realism" or "realistic features". It's embarrassing for people who have extensive knowledge or real life experience in any military.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Bricks

[Liability 10]

Well the other term for it could be deflection shooting, and you don't zero in your scope for snap shots either, from what I know, which isn't much, is that for themost part a sniepr's rifle scope is zeroed in on a specific range ahead of time, and deflection is only dialed in if you have loads of time to get the perfect shot (law enforcement sharpshooters during hostage situations come to mind), but generally if you are on the move and encounter an enemy that you are at risk of exposing your self too, as as sniper you are trained to use teh graduations on the crosshairs to make delfection adjustments on the fly.

Now in OFP the M24 had a distance dial stock, I haven't used it, but am kind of surprised it isn't included in ArmA2 stock. One of the reasons I prefer the PSO scope in both games.

[frederf 0]

Snipers will dial in their elevation and windage in 5 seconds or so. Yes, for really, really urgent stuff they will snap shoot but for the majority of shots with even the most minimal prep time you dial it in.

[Reverend Crast 10]

Well. Arma2 is not a simulator. STUCKED on doorway! That doesn't happen IRL :) .

End of provoke and sarcasm. ArmA2 is a very good game, but don't take it too seriously. Sometimes is so satisfying to throw a couple of grenades on your own base just to get reactions out of your playing mates. Its absolutely beautiful. And fascinating.

In real life you type stuck, not stucked.

Other than that I agree 100%

People wouldn't like real war simulator. Be careful what you wish for :D

Edited July 4, 2009 by acidd