'Red dot' sights and accuracy....

[cartier90 0]

Ive had the game for 2 days now and love it. I am finding it very hard to actually hit anything though. In Flashpoint it was easy to hit someone at 400 yards with the iron sights. Im finding anything over 200 m is a struggle now though. Is bullet dispersion higher (im playing on veteran) - anyone finding this as issue ?

I can literally place a civilian 300 yards away, go prone, hold breath, red dot on center of mass and no hit !, this is a 505 copy of the game.

[Recnelis2 10]

I have zero issues like this. I can snipe/machine gun/rifle anything at a 500m distance. Hell i killed a man over 1000m away with my .50 cal sniper rifle of doom!

[Alex72 1]

I wouldnt use ironsight if i was going for targets 400 yards away. And i have no problems with the red dots. but again, i dont use close range gear for longer ranges. Doesnt seem smart to me.

[zigg 10]

http://ttp2.dslyecxi.com/basic_rifleman.html i recommend reading this, scroll down to the part about basic marksmanship. it's a really good guide made by dslyecxi.... i hope this helps :)

[An Fiach 10]

I noticed it while playing the demo. Iron sights and reflex sights should be able to hit fairly accurately out to 300m. IRL they are both sighted in on a 25m range because the ballistic arc of the 5.56mm will take it through the target at the same aim point at both 25m and 300m.

Take into consideration though that I am not yet accustomed to the control interface and weapon control of ArmA so this could also affect the outcome. With other games we have been accustomed to unrealistically steady hands making targeting a point and click excercise. Try adjusting your mouse sensitivity to ensure that it isn't simply a matter of over compensating movement when adjusting aim.

[frederf 0]

M68 CCO "Aimpoint" sights are typically zeroed at a range of 100m. Iron sights and ACOGs at 300m.

[An Fiach 10]

M68 CCO "Aimpoint" sights are typically zeroed at a range of 100m. Iron sights and ACOGs at 300m.

eh not in my unit.

EDIT: ACOG accepted of course

[Brendon 0]

I actually do better without using the ironsights. I was playing on regular, though with crosshairs :D

[CplBlakeman 10]

Well I've hit man sized targets at 500 yards with open sights prone with an M16A2, but the weapon could be zeroed differently for arma2 since you cant adjust irons. We left our irons at 300 yd mark.

The M68 is for less than 300yds which is supposed to be the 'normal' engagement distances for infantry.

[An Fiach 10]

Well I've hit man sized targets at 500 yards with open sights prone with an M16A2, but the weapon could be zeroed differently for arma2 since you cant adjust irons. We left our irons at 300 yd mark.

The M68 is for less than 300yds which is supposed to be the 'normal' engagement distances for infantry.

Yes that is the typical max engagement range for infantry combat. The point of zeroing the M68 to 300m is that you don't change your optics in combat. It enables you to engage at long ranges with the benefit of the open sight in close range combat and at ranges less than 25m is is simply too easy to adjust your point of aim a few inches higher and if you are lucky enough to acquire the 3x mag and swing mount it is like having an ACOG and CCO at the same time.

[Heatseeker 0]

Just throw the M16 away... if you find a PKP lying around somewhere ;) .

[My Fing ID 0]

The dot is way too bright imo. I wish we had either an option to turn it down or to take it off and use irons

[galzohar 31]

The dot is a bit too big it seems, though I never used this specifc sight IRL and didn't actually measure its in-game MOA either, so could be off here.

The main problem with long range shooting is that we don't have any real data on weapon ballistics. We only know that they have ballistics. IRL a soldier is expected to be profficient with his weapons and remember the offsets at various ranges, including longer ranges than the typical engagement range.

For example, if you want to hit a target that is mostly behind cover even at 100m, you need to know if your sights are off by 7cm or 17cm at that distance.

For sniper rifles this is an even bigger issue.

[Dignity 10]

I agree the dot is too big. I line it up with an enemy and the dot just covers him all and then i cannot see if im shooting around him, I tend to avoid red dot scopes at all costs. :)

[wipman 1]

Hi, i preffer the ArmA's red dot over the ArmA2 red dot on the CCO sights, i never had one

of those in the real life in the hads, but i preffer the ArmA's red dot; i've a better awareness

at close and mid ranges and i also preffer it over the ACOG sights for the same reasons even

when the ACOG sight on the ArmA2 is not the USMC reticle... but it's much better than the

ArmA's ACOG; sorry if i've gone off topic with this last part. Let's C ya

[Nowyoudie 0]

My friend has an aimdot for his AR-15 and I've fired a couple hundred shots with it. It is much thinner than the one in the game.

[jbowles 0]

M68 CCO "Aimpoint" sights are typically zeroed at a range of 100m. Iron sights and ACOGs at 300m.

ACOGs are zeroed at 100m, there BDC is designed around a 100m zero.

Iron sights, red dots and other non magnified optics are typically zeroed at 50-100m

A 50m zero works really well for M4s and M16s due to there high sight over bore distance at 2.6", with a 50m zero the bullet is dead on at 50m, about 1.5" high at 100m, peaks at 2.0" around 125m and is at zero again at about 215m and still capable of making good hits without adjustment out to about 300m.

[raynor 0]

Frederf stated the IN GAME zero's, no one gives a rats ass about what you zero your rifles at.

[Second 0]

Considerning ArmA2: Is aimpoint still cubersome chunk of optics which covers about third of player's FOV when aiming? And in that way limiting it's usefulness in CQB?

...

What i mean with this is transparency = both eyes open = No blind spots in FOV... sure this applies to all sight types (ACOG, ironsights), but due some reason i think that aimpoint definedly should have this feat.

+ that large dot limits it's usefulness also in long shots.

In ArmA i basically i threw every M4 with aimpoint away and replaced it with any weapon available with out aimpoint. More accuracy to long shots and more situational awarness and reaction speed in CQB... even with ironsights.

[An Fiach 10]

Frederf stated the IN GAME zero's, no one gives a rats ass about what you zero your rifles at.

The discussion was about whether it was correct, so see yourself to the door.

From what I am getting is that it seems either different units zero their weapons differently or there are people that have no military experience just repeating what they have read or heard elsewhere. Either way it apears that we won't come to a consensus as to the correct numbers.

The dot size is about right though obviously it can be adjusted IRL to be less intense I believe BIS went with the best average for visibility purposes.

[xxbbcc 6]

I have problems hitting the red targets at the target range in basic training. I can use the aimpoint in ArmA 1 out to 200-300 m without trouble. In ArmA 2, I hit 18 out of 30 targets at the target range. In several cases, the bullet seemed to go right through the targets and hit the ground right behind them. This might be a clipping issue.

I agree, the dot is too bright and big.

[mr_centipede 31]

I have problems hitting the red targets at the target range in basic training. I can use the aimpoint in ArmA 1 out to 200-300 m without trouble. In ArmA 2, I hit 18 out of 30 targets at the target range. In several cases, the bullet seemed to go right through the targets and hit the ground right behind them. This might be a clipping issue.

I agree, the dot is too bright and big.

I played the demo, I must say that in ARMA1, I find it very hard to hit targets with aimpoint, so I always use ironsights. but in ARMA2(demo) I can perfectly hit target with aimpoint. just point and shoot really

though on scoring side, i failed that, just hit 13 targets :D

the popup targets really fast. and i thought it was like in americas army where only 1 target popup at once... i was really shocked to see two targets pop out at once

Edited June 27, 2009 by Mr_Centipede

[My Fing ID 0]

The holo sight drives me nuts too. I tried to engage a guy about 150m out and the sight covered him. Maybe irl that's how they are, I dunno, but irl a M68s dot is supposed to be just bright enough to see and is accurate to 300m.

As for ballistics I dunno Marines (I'd assume its the same unless their M16 are different) but army zeroes at 25m and sets iron sights to 300m. The M68 stays the same but hits to 300m. I think the M4 may be zeroed at 300 as well rather than the zero notch like the m16 but I can't remember. Anyways the bullet goes up when fired, so if this is modeled, aim low at close range. Should be aiming center mast anyways, the points to take them out of the fight not necessarily kill them, so hitting the enemy is more important than where you hit them.

I also ran into a problem in game where the sun blocked out my m68. Don't remember this ever happening irl but if it did I'd of taken it off and used my backup irons. Wish this was modeled, backup irons are pretty sweet. Never tried it but I'm sure you coukd use them with the 68 attached as it just flips up. Also wish the PEQs were modeled. Have the breath button function like a pressure switch and it would be awesome.

---------- Post added at 09:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 AM ----------

I played the demo, I must say that in ARMA1, I find it very hard to hit targets with aimpoint, so I always use ironsights. but in ARMA2(demo) I can perfectly hit target with aimpoint. just point and shoot really

though on scoring side, i failed that, just hit 13 targets :D

the popup targets really fast. and i thought it was like in americas army where only 1 target popup at once... i was really shocked to see two targets pop out at once

That's something I dislike with AA. IRL a qual course is a mix of 1 and 2 targets. You also shoot foxhole and prone, but since foxholes aren't modeled I can see why they changed.

[galzohar 31]

Not hitting targets at the range: They're actually not fast, but if you have mouselag they sure seem like they're too fast (from experience). Read more here: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?p=1332041#post1332041 (check out the video).

Zeroing: I don't know about different units, but different armies definitely zero stuff differently. Note that when I say "zero range" I'm not talking about what you're shooting at in order to zero, but rather the range at which your weapon will hit exactly where you aim. In IDF we actually shoot always at 25m and make it hit with a certain offset based on the weapon/sights being zeroed, and if possible verify the zero afterwards by shooting to a longer distance. Assault rifles are generally zeroed to 250m here, it has a few CM less rise on the way which is an advantage, but is harder to hit targets at 300m (which you never really do anyway). AFAIK US army/marines zero so that they hit stuff at 300m. At the end it doesn't *really* matter what range you zero at, as the ballistics of the weapon remain the same - all that really matters is knowing the distance and offset at that distance if you want to hit accurately, or just shooting center mass if all that is too complicated in your given situation. But we NEED to know the zero ranges and offsets of the various weapons at various ranges in-game. This should've been an appendix to the manual, listed on the official website, or something. I hope the community does enough tests to make something like this of our own.

The whole paralax view / 2-eye-open shooting thing, while nescessary for realism and the true effectiveness of red dot sights, seems just too hard to implement when your weapon is made out of a 3d model (rather than a 2d model like a lot of games have, which then allows them to make the sights as transparent as they want with no issues). Hopefully someday someone will overcome this challenge.

Edited June 27, 2009 by galzohar

[jbowles 0]

Frederf stated the IN GAME zero's, no one gives a rats ass about what you zero your rifles at.

He stated nothing of the sort.

If he had been referring to in game zeros I doubt he would be giving us "typical" zero ranges, if he was talking about in game zeros I would expect a much more definitive answer from him.

You need to check the attitude dude.