ARMA 2 Healing System?

[Maizel 10]

Lets petition BIS to redesign the Healing system so that you get shipped back home to recuperate for 2 months when you get shot in the leg.

[frederf 0]

I can see the correlation between medical and reinforcement from a purely functional point of view, but it seems a shame to tie them together in that way when we have a perfectly functional respawn mechanic that can handle reinforcement without mussing up a perfectly salvageable medical mechanic.

The only real downside to a purely realistic medical mechanic is that it would mean a lot of wasted player-minutes and some boredom. I care less about the people who were killed and more for the people still alive. If you can only muster 15 players to represent a large conflict, it really hurts if you lose 5 of them to the overall feel.

However, as much as I want to keep people "in the fight," I'd like dead or serious injury to be something more than a minor inconvenience, both for people's sense of self preservation an dfor the fact that a lot of very entertaining military activity is forsaken with the lack of caring whether someone lives or dies.

If you crawl up wounded to an unmaned M113Amb, can you still magically heal yourself? Why are we still on the backward paradigm where medical assets are things that injured players initiate treatment from? Wouldn't it be more logical to put the onus on the medical assets to do the active operation?

It would be very strange to say that you fell, broke your leg, and healed yourself at the doctor. It is the doctor that heals you.

[Maizel 10]

I agree that dying should be highly penalized, lest people start running and gunning, which will very much degrade any notion of realism in multiplayer matches.

Though I do not think having players wait 5+ minutes is the way to do it.

I would prefer a set number of respawns per player.

[galzohar 31]

All I'm saying that instead of the injured->wait for medic->get treated->get back into the fight, you'll just "leave" your "incapacitated body" there and go respawn as reinforcements, and if the mission designer really wants to, he can allow someone to give your "incapacitated body" medical treatment/medivac for extra score. It would be a lot more realistic than the current system, and only hurt the overly-difficult-and-long no-respawn COOP missions. Heck this whole thing could possibly just be a difficulty option (though a quite significant one).

IRL, first aid and medics basically make you last longer (die slower...), but don't really do anything to actually improve your status. Doctors (at a hospital, not in the field), while still not directly healing you, can (within reason) completely stop you from dying and sometimes even doing some kind of actual healing (ex: suture the wound) and let you finish healing over time.

[Hell_Toupee 0]

I didn't say Arma 2 shouldn't have teamplay, but rather that the teamplay should come from realism, and not at the expense of realism.

Team play does not come from realism tho, you can model everything to 100% realism it will not result in any more team play potential and unreal tournament since ones life is never at stake. Teamplay in most cases is a function of game mechanics, like a medic system or a class/role/ability system.

[galzohar 31]

Team play does not come from realism tho, you can model everything to 100% realism it will not result in any more team play potential and unreal tournament since ones life is never at stake. Teamplay in most cases is a function of game mechanics, like a medic system or a class/role/ability system.

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree. There are reasons games like UT, COD4 etc have very little teamwork, and they're all strongly related to the lack of realism. Both in real life and in realistic gaming you need to work with your team to win against teams that are doing the same. In UT/COD4/etc, teamwork makes little difference, mostly since by the time you communicate anything you've already died and respawned 5 times, and also there's little benefit to have people cover eachothers' !@#es. In a realistic game, though, teamwork is very much a necessity to win (unless the other team sucks too), and silly medical systems aren't needed to enforce additional (artificial) teamwork.

You need to want to be near your teammates because you need eachother's cover. You need to want to be near your teammates because they're using equipment with different capabilities than yours and you can't carry everything yourself, so you need their help. You need to want to be near your teammates because you're operating a crew served weapon with them. You shouldn't be required to want to be near your teammates because you can revive eachother - that's more suitable for games like World of Warcraft...

Edited June 22, 2009 by galzohar

[max power 21]

So what you're saying is if you make a game more realistic then teamwork must also increase. So, il2 must have a complete absense of lonewolfing, kill stealing, shoulder shooting, and smoke chasing, am I right?

[Hell_Toupee 0]

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree. There are reasons games like UT, COD4 etc have very little teamwork, and they're all strongly related to the lack of realism. Both in real life and in realistic gaming you need to work with your team to win against teams that are doing the same. In UT/COD4/etc, teamwork makes little difference, mostly since by the time you communicate anything you've already died and respawned 5 times, and also there's little benefit to have people cover eachothers' !@#es. In a realistic game, though, teamwork is very much a necessity to win (unless the other team sucks too), and silly medical systems aren't needed to enforce additional (artificial) teamwork.

Who said they have little teamwork?

I used to play UT competitively for example, in game mode like CTF there was extensive amounts of teamwork, you could not possibly hope win otherwise due to the CTF game mechanics, you had to cover and escort each other, while solo DM mode there would obviously be none.

Teamwork in realistic games only occurs under the same conditions as unrealistic ones, when they are necessary due to game mechanics.

You need to want to be near your teammates because you need eachother's cover. You need to want to be near your teammates because they're using equipment with different capabilities than yours and you can't carry everything yourself, so you need their help. You need to want to be near your teammates because you're operating a crew served weapon with them. You shouldn't be required to want to be near your teammates because you can revive eachother - that's more suitable for games like World of Warcraft...

You need each others cover in every team game from UT to WoW, hell its even more relevant in unrealistic games due to the low lethality level giving opponents time to react.

Edited June 22, 2009 by Hell_Toupee

[Murklor 10]

I agree that dying should be highly penalized, lest people start running and gunning, which will very much degrade any notion of realism in multiplayer matches.

Though I do not think having players wait 5+ minutes is the way to do it.

I would prefer a set number of respawns per player.

That could be even worse!

Imagine if your "average joe" team going up against a *very very very good* clan squad in a 2 hour scenario with say... 10 respawns allocated. So what, you're gonna die 10 times over in the next 30 minutes and then have to sit and wait on your thumbs for 1 hour and 30 minutes while that elusive sniper on your team that not even you know where he is has 10 lives left?

Uhm... No, I definetly dont think a set number of respawns would be a good idea (unless it impacts when the game ends, like the Battlefield series with a global set of tickets). Plus in this case it'd be bad for both teams because said clan wouldnt even have a challenge when the other team hides just to live.

Point being, its not unrealistic if 1 player make 10 kills. That's called numerical superiority with inferior training and I'm fairly sure the USMC would be insulted if you suggested that they have to die "equally" in combat for it to be fair.

I still dont think dying should be penalized so hard. Living should however be rewarded.

[blackhawkdown 10]

perhaps dying while trying to aid a wounded fellow soldier should be rewarded. and maybe dying should be rellocated. i mean maybe death should be penalized only when it is a stupid mistake and not some sniper from 1 mile away, getting you through the wall of a house, using a 50 caliber anti material rifle!

[aussieterry84 10]

This whole healing thing is total BS IMO. If you're shot in the leg so badly that you can't walk, then no medic in the world will make you able to walk again. This whole healing/revival thing is a total gameplay/realism/immersion killer for me.

IRL medics don't heal. They save your life, yes, but they don't make you able to fight again, at least not in the next few days/weeks/ever depending on the severity of the wound..

I really hope ACE2 takes this into realism land like it does with the rest of the game, rather than just make it a bit more complex while keeping it totally unrealistic.

its a game u nob, if it means so much to u go out, purchase a gun, then shoot urself in the leg, WHAM there's your realism have fun with that.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Would be cool if you were limited for 5 respawns per player, but every time a medic (or some1 else) helps a wounded player - you get assigned one additional life.

[galzohar 31]

Like already said, linking respawns with medical attention only hurts realism and immersion. And for me, having a guy shot down so bad he can't move getting medical attention and all of the sudden he's BF2-style "ah, just a flesh wound!" and goes back to full fighting capability is a major immersion killer and puts in gameplay elements I'd rather not see in a realistic game. Currently, treating wounded people increases your manpower on the field, which is not only unrealistic - it's actually the exact opposite of what it does IRL.

When it comes to respawn rules etc, it's completely irrelevant to the medic system. However, it does have many possible solutions that work well (better than those suggested here), medic system or not. In fact, the options are almost endless, and up to the mission makers to get done right, in a way that will encourage realistic gameplay while still being playable and fun.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@Espectro: In early stages of Dominatrix, I did this using revive. You did have limited number of lives (typically 4 per remainding number of targets when you joined), and you only lost a life when you actually had to push the respawn button. Anyone could revive (we're not a big enough group to always have a medic around), but the revived would be in so bad condition he could hardly shoot. He was forced to seek a medic or an ambulance if medic was not still around. Doing 4 revives gave you an additional life as a bonus.

Revive provided better teamwork and gameplay. Limited lives caused people to be more careful. Those who didn't play 'by the rules', was less likely te be revived since the reward for doing so was not that great anymore, and would cause them to hit the respawn button.

When ACE came along, the revive was dropped. If I'm going down this path with Arma2 I don't know yet.

When it comes to respawn rules etc, it's completely irrelevant to the medic system.

Sorry, but that's completely up to the mission designer to determine, not you the player. You have to play by whatever sick ideas the mission designer had in mind, or play another mission. I haven't seen a single suggestion that would 'work for you', as well as most others, while being 'playable and fun'. Feel free to add a 'set of rules', but I don't think I'll agree. One major feature of this rule for me, would be that the COD/BF2 fast action was penalized and 'doing it slow and careful' was rewarded.

[jgaz-uk 132]

There are 2 levels of healing :

- simple first aid : anyone can patch you up with simple first aid kit, but you won't be fully recovered. Your icon remains "red" as a consequence and you still have shaky aim.

- Full "healing": only a medic/corpsman can really heal you completely and make you 100% combat ready again.

Note that the more serious the injury, the longer it takes to heal you.

There are also 2 levels of "clearance" :

- "drag" : you grab the body by the shirt and drag it to safety. Best for short distances and under fire, you can still shoot (though aiming is almost impossible)

- "carry" : better for long distances, but it takes time to get the guy on your shoulders and you can't shoot afterward. Definitely not to be used when enemies are around.

any one know the script to call Ambulance for Battlefield Evac in call support?

[dwinar 10]

Sorry guys for my interference but I don't get the point of this medic discussion. galzohar why can't you just play/create missions without this healing system?? You aren't forced to use it. It is really cool to have choice whether you want to play "realistic" or "unrealistic but in someone's opinion more FUN".

EDIT:

LOL sorry for necroing this thread, I didn't look at the date of last post :P

Edited June 19, 2011 by dwinar