Enemy Accuracy way to good.

[Majormauser 0]

I have to say the game is a little lopsided. Since I can barely see my target and I keep getting shot. I will approach from some distant tree covered (375 yards away) mountain and I get spotted EVERY time. I am convinced I should have never been seen. To top this I played a few games with generated enemies in the Editor. Enemy was outfitted with AK-47's with iron sites. I'm sitting quite a ways away with a sniper rifle and they are still hitting me anywhere I go.

So before you attack.... take a step back and tell me what I am doing wrong or what I should be doing... because I am taking every precaution like sneaking up on them to using sniper rifles so I am far far away and its almost instant death from fire coming from the skies. Its not Fade I have a legal copy. I know that this is a very realistic simulator and have played this type of game for many years. But fair is Fair.

[Placebo 28]

Lower difficulty and/or enable more visual indicators to help you until you're more experienced with the game? :)

[Majormauser 0]

Lower difficulty and/or enable more visual indicators to help you until you're more experienced with the game? :)

I did that first thing after I had problems with the default setting. Setup enemy indicators and HUD dots. Now I know where they are when they are shooting at me. Even in Recruit mode the accuracy is still very deadly. This is the mode I am playing in the games I have had trouble with.

Tips -

#1 - Is there a specific distance to look out for?

#2 - When spotted suppressed then wounded what do you do ? Run?, wait? , heal? ?

#3 - What is your approach to a firefight or a group of the enemy?what is the strategy? This could be a defend this location battle in the Armory for example.

:confused:

[froggyluv 2130]

Has anyone tried lowering the Precision skill in the cfg?

[eenter 0]

So before you attack.... take a step back and tell me what I am doing wrong or what I should be doing... because I am taking every precaution like sneaking up on them to using sniper rifles so I am far far away and its almost instant death from fire coming from the skies. Its not Fade I have a legal copy. I know that this is a very realistic simulator and have played this type of game for many years. But fair is Fair.

It's because the AI cheats, nothing blocks their view, they know where you are everytime you fire a shot.

[walker 0]

Hi all

@eenter ArmA AI do not cheat, they can hear same as you can, heck they even hear your voice if you use direct speak, and running to hide behind a bush or firing from behind a building means the bush/building gets it full auto for a human and now for ArmA AI too.

While I do not have ArmA II, I will await the 505 release, I have played all the BI family and seen the videos. Including several ArmA II sniper videos. So while from the videos the AI is better, I still think it is not as good as human.

Majormauser if you have not played ArmA or OFP before you will have been negativly trained by all other FPS games, which fail to teach correct use of cover and concealment in Tactics Techniques and procedures (TTP) best to read Dslyecxi's TTP

http://dslyecxi.com/armattp.html

Kind Regards walker

Edited June 6, 2009 by walker

[twisted 127]

Has anyone tried lowering the Precision skill in the cfg?

yes and it does help. in veteran it is by default 1 precision and 1 skill which is maxed out.

[sparks50 0]

Bi should consider lowering the AI skill by default.

[MBot 0]

Has anyone tried lowering the Precision skill in the cfg?

Where is that cfg? I remember it from ArmA, but can't find anything like that for Arma 2. I would love to adjust "intelligence" and shooting skills separately.

Also does the skill slider in the difficulty options only take effect after reloading a mission? I have set it to 1.00 for friendlies and 0.0 for enemies mid mission, and still my guys were mowed down by ironsighted weapons at large range with the first rounds.

[Balschoiw 0]

@eenter ArmA AI do not cheat

Ummm...Arma 2 AI does cheat indeed. They can see through foliage again. Have experienced the bug on my own a couple of times now and it´s a known issue.

While I do not have ArmA II

You should sometimes just believe others who actually have/play the game.

[Majormauser 0]

Hi all

@eenter ArmA AI do not cheat, they can hear same as you can, heck they even hear your voice if you use direct speak, and running to hide behind a bush or firing from behind a building means the bush/building gets it full auto for a human and now for ArmA AI too.

While I do not have ArmA II, I will await the 505 release, I have played all the BI family and seen the videos. Including several ArmA II sniper videos. So while from the videos the AI is better, I still think it is not as good as human.

Majormauser if you have not played ArmA or OFP before you will have been negativly trained by all other FPS games, which fail to teach correct use of cover and concealment in Tactics Techniques and procedures (TTP) best to read Dslyecxi's TTP

http://dslyecxi.com/armattp.html

Kind Regards walker

No nooo.... I am trained in ArmA, OFP...(again I was never great). what I'm saying is that its a little over the top... Like Crysis where you can be seen 100% of the time. The AI is pretty spot on after you take your first shot. I will read the Dslyecxi Guide and try again.

[Majormauser 0]

Ummm...Arma 2 AI does cheat indeed. They can see through foliage again. Have experienced the bug on my own a couple of times now and it´s a known issue.

You should sometimes just believe others who actually have/play the game.

This is exactly how I feel... hidden or not they still find you instantly.

[DaveP 66]

I find that even at the lowest skill sometimes some infantry are just way too good shots (resistance riflemen can rip apart full skill spetznas soldiers still, with enough time)

Maybe it's the suppression effect, they like to fire off long bursts before the OPFOR can fire back

This is exactly how I feel... hidden or not they still find you instantly.

Play as a specop unit at night with a silenced weapon against low skill soldiers, you're like a ninja

[Xenios 0]

The AI still has quite a few flaws, but doesn't need to cheat in Arma 2, at least not that I've seen. They're just a lot smarter than they used to be, and a lot smarter than in any other game. They can't see through smoke, objects or trees, but they can hear you or hear about your position from their comrades. They will suppress your last known position, even if they can no longer see and you have stealthily changed to a new location. They are harder to spot now because all camo works better in the new cluttered terrain. And of course, they will now use cover (still not enough for my tastes, but they do use it) and cover each others' movements.

The good part is your AI teammates have improved too. If you want to improve your odds against AI, you have to command your own AIs more effectively than the enemy AI. That means tactics like telling your squad to hold fire while you spot unwary targets through binocs, assigning targets to each of your men, while moving each man into an ideal shooting position. Then command all your men to open fire at the same. A whole enemy squad can go down in seconds. You could never wipe out a whole squad in 3 seconds on your own or if your men attacked piecemeal.

Or you can command a sniper or machinegunner to go to a hilltop and watch a given direction or location, providing overwatch while you lead an assault team into a town. You can order one soldier to advance ahead of the formation, acting as your point man so you don't have to risk ambush for the whole squad. The enemy AI is very dangerous now, but your men can be deadlier if you use them tactically.

[walker 0]

Hi Balschoiw

Too often experienced the people in ArmA who said the AI was too good.

Do you remember me doing videos to prove AI had spotted people?

Or giving a walk through to show how to do the night mission to blow up the tanks without being spotted?

Plus all the people in MP who stand out in the middle of the street blasting away full auto or run off on a joly to do a Rambo and screw the whole mission?

The number of people who do not know the basics like bounding overwatch or reverse slope defense or that Armor stays 300m behind the infantry screen?

Or those who fail to place their CAS helos to cover their open flank?

Or put their MGs in the middle in maneuver?

Or do not understand that ambushes are L shaped and it is that, that produces crossfire?

And that flanking produces that same L shape with the advantage of crossing your openents T?

Or biggest sin of all commanders who do not realise; their primary weapons are those they command and a good pair of binoculars

etc. etc.

All that playing COD4, CS and stock BF teaches them a whole lot of wrong things

And we are going to spend months kicking these leet noobs into shape and explaing to them why they are dead.

Kind Regards walker

Edited June 6, 2009 by walker

[max power 21]

Because they shoot through bushes doesn't mean they can see through them. The AI can detect bullets whizzing by and the sound of your rifle. So, if you're sniping armed soldiers, it's not great to start shooting them as if it's a turkey shoot at 400 meters. 400 meters is still within the effective range of a rifleman, and you will likely be torn apart if you're 1 guy trying to pick off a group. You can snipe with relative impunity at longer ranges, out past 600 m, until the squad gets within range. When you have only concealment and no cover, it's best to shoot and scoot when you're within the range of a rifle squad.

[walker 0]

Hi Max Power

Too right mate.

How many more times will we have to explain a bush is concealment not cover and once you bust it with a shot or stomping around in it; it aint even concealment.

You know I actualy saw a video the other day the AI are all using cover and concealment correctly and the player was, and I kid you not, hiding and firing from behind a four inch wide post like it was concealment or cover... numpty.

Kind regards walker

[Majormauser 0]

Because they shoot through bushes doesn't mean they can see through them. The AI can detect bullets whizzing by and the sound of your rifle. So, if you're sniping armed soldiers, it's not great to start shooting them as if it's a turkey shoot at 400 meters. 400 meters is still within the effective range of a rifleman, and you will likely be torn apart if you're 1 guy trying to pick off a group. You can snipe with relative impunity at longer ranges, out past 600 m, until the squad gets within range. When you have only concealment and no cover, it's best to shoot and scoot when you're within the range of a rifle squad.

Max & Walker Thank You we are getting somewhere now. 400m Check 600m Check. Just at 400m with M16 its almost impossible to hit anything... yet they seem to have no issues.

Remember I am just talking about the Player against AI in the Armory. So its One against many. not a real fair fight but BI put it in the game.

[Heatseeker 0]

Hmm no, the a.i. does cheat.

If one bot sees you he will comunicate your position to the rest of his squad, the problem is that the precision of this information is.. well.. 100% precise.

For example a.i. bot 1 can see you, a.i. bot 2 cant since there is a building or something obstructing his LOS.

If the 2 bots are grouped the first will tell the second your exact position, this means that bot 2 can target you thru walls and objects precisely (like they arent even there), this is most apparent when weapon mounted vehicles are involved, their weapons cant line up with you but they are targeting you with 100% precision thru walls and the likes, so when you lean out to take a look.. bang! They were already targeting you.

This is evidence of good a.i. but the precision of the information is just too high, thats also why the forests are such a pain in the ass.

Another problem is that the a.i. knowsabout you for a set amount of time so if they see you they will know precisely where you are for that set amount of time, sometimes even after you break visual contact.

If you combine the two examples above then its clear that the a.i. cheats.

Cover and concealment.

Just didnt work in Arma, in OPF concealment worked in the 3 original islands since you could hide in the bushes and be virtually invisible.

Cover on the other hand never worked and is not a good idea, the advantage of cover is that the a.i. is unable to use indirect fire, basically they cant shoot what they cant line up with so they dont employ hand grenades or weapon mounted grenade launchers effectively.

On the other hand they are very precise with their weapons so if you expose a milimeter of your avatar they can hit it, so.. forget windows, walls, sandbags, etc, dont even think about high positions such as rooftops, balconies, etc. Its either full cover or no cover at all, in full cover you wont be able to do anything without getting shot so you will most likely be overun.

Playing these games since 2001 i've developed my own tactics, techniques and procedures when it comes to a.i, these are not realistic or fancy but effective since i keep in mind that this is a video game, not reality ;) .

- Speed kills before they can react, take them out as fast as possible starting with the higher ranked unit in the group, this is the most effective tactic since they wont have time to react, even less if they start taking casualties.

- Cover and concealment? In the later games there is no concealment, the only thing usefull for both cover and concealment is the terrain.

- Movement! If you dont you die. Hit and run works best when it comes to survival, keep the engagements short and pull back, then hit them again from a diferent direction, long exposure means casualties on your side, especially when facing a large a.i. force.

- Distance, keep the distance, the a.i. will be less accurate and less likely to sneak up on you.

If you understand how the a.i. works you will be able to figure out how to beat their tactics, a good way to learn how the a.i. works is to play SP scenarios where you are part of an a.i. squad without being the squad/team leader ;) .

[MoS 0]

I totally agree with Mauser.

I played all the games from OFP up to ArmA II excessivley and it is the same now as it was at the very beginning of ArmA I:

The AI shoots too precisley even over great distances + you can´t see shit through the grass but they can.

It seems as if there was no grass layer at all blocking their view.

Indeed the AI has made huge improvements in behaviour e.g.: I attacked an enemy basecamp and its soldiers started immediately surrounding my squad in the forrest.

That really impressed me but even if i lay down in the thickest bushes and couldn´t see anything further ahead than a few meters, they shot me from over 200m away with a maximum of 2 shots.

That happened so often that I even wanted to quit playing...

Btw: I played on veteran and i don´t want to know how good the AI shoots on professional...

[Majormauser 0]

HeatSeeker said - "For example a.i. bot 1 can see you, a.i. bot 2 cant since there is a building or something obstructing his LOS.

If the 2 bots are grouped the first will tell the second your exact position, this means that bot 2 can target you thru walls and objects precisely (like they arent even there), this is most apparent when weapon mounted vehicles are involved, their weapons cant line up with you but they are targeting you with 100% precision thru walls and the likes, so when you lean out to take a look.. bang! They were already targeting you."

I have seen this many times. Oh and Thank You for the Tips!!!

Edited June 6, 2009 by Majormauser

[walker 0]

Hi Heatseeker

I disagree concealment does work.

On numerous occasions I hid in a bush and watched the enemy go right by me as long as I did not move, they did not spot me.

BUT concealment like bushes or a foot thick tree is not cover. Neither stops bullets. Yes I know a foot of wood can stop some bullets but there is only about 4 inches of transect through a 1 foot tree that is near 1 foot thick. Only chords that transect a circle within a couple of inches either side of the diameter are around 1 foot thick after that its cover value decreases exponetialy.

Here have a look:

http://www.mathopenref.com/chord.html

But if I see or hear some numpty run to hide behind a bush/wall/tree, the bush/wall/tree gets it full auto and it is the same now with the AI.

Cover is a large object such as hill or very thick walls such as the full thickness of a house. Walls less than a foot thick do not stop bullets and they certainly do not stop cannon shells or RPG.

Cover is best but making noise behind cover busts its concealment then all you have got is the fact it can stop bullets.

MoS apparently you can knock down grass arround you to get better LOS on the enemy. Also fire at gun flashes and the sound of fire same as the AI does, they can be supressed. If you are being supressed try to move to alternate cover. Occasionaly take a knee for 1 second though it is a risk.

Best of all do not get caught in the open, plan you moves to use cover.

And make sure you have support

Kind Regards walker

Edited June 6, 2009 by walker

[turin turambar 0]

I am also a veteran player, from the Ofp demo to ArmA 2. And the AI from Bohemia games were (and still are) way too good, at least for me. Their visual senses are like 3 or 4 times better than mine.

An example to understand the difference between the AI and a human. Think about a lush enviroment, full of grass, bushes, the shadows of the trees darkening eveything, and a sniper, immovible, prone hidden with a good camo pattern between a bush and a rock in the middle of the grass. I would need god's help to see it, even in close distances, but the AI can see with the same "check visibility system" that uses to see a standing enemy at noon with red clothes.

I have been killed by the enemy dozens of times without not knowing where it was and how the hell he did spotted me, because i had so much cover in front of me that i couldn't see shit.

[Majormauser 0]

Just played a game where I am totally on the same level ground as the enemy outside on the range of sight of the enemy... crawling rolling out of my last targeted area. Playing Where they Hunt me down is totally unfair its like they have a homing beacon on you.... I could be in a cave and they would find me. Possibly the AI is better in the Armory?

Edited June 6, 2009 by Majormauser

[walker 0]

Hi Majormauser

How many did you killl?

Kind regards walker