The Su-34

[Jman1000 0]

Doesn't it seem odd that (A) from a gameplay standpoint a long-range supersonic bomber would be picked for a tactical warfare simulator and (B) that a small communist enclave on a small island would have any need for and even be able to afford such a high-end piece of machinery?

[sparks50 0]

Perhaps they were planning to invade other islands in the sea after taking the south?

[Maddmatt 1]

It wasn't originally in the game, it was added for the European release and added to the other versions in a patch. I guess it was something they had already made and decided to add in as a cool extra.

It can go well with some Russian themed mods.

You could actually see it in some early Game2 previews way before ArmA was released.

[sv5000 127]

I look at the su34 as a bit of goodwill sent from the motherland for staying the communist course

[[aps]gnat 28]

Well, whats even more odd, is the fact a Su25 or 39 etc wasn't in the game to start with ......

[BLSmith2112 0]

So the intent was always to make the game completely unbalanced for pvp?

[lee_h._oswald 0]

Gnat @ Feb. 15 2009,08:17)]Well, whats even more odd, is the fact a Su25 or 39 etc wasn't in the game to start with ......

Yes, SU-25/39 would have been the perfect choice.

MfG Lee

[Serclaes 0]

So the intent was always to make the game completely unbalanced for pvp?  

Ever heard of asymmetric balance?

[wipman 1]

Hi, no; i never heard of the "asymmetric balance", i just heard about

the unbalance, and alot.

What i really wonder is why they didn't fixed the Berkut's HUD

brigthness that completly screws up your view with or without the

NVG's by night and that when you're a bit far away, it displays like

in the 2nd LOD or so, the light turned On in the front gear wheel.

They added some pointless stuff (like those damn Camels) and then

they go and add bugged content that haven't fixed like those bugs

on the SU-34 and some more arround there. The SU-34 it's a nice

plane, the AI handles it half well but don't seems to be made thinking

in the human players, at least not with those bugs... . Let's C ya

[HellToupee 0]

So the intent was always to make the game completely unbalanced for pvp?  

Ever heard of asymmetric balance?

Too much basic equipment was lacking to even achieve asymmetric balance.

[nephilim 0]

Quote[/b] ]Ever heard of asymmetric balance?

asymetric balance?

hm no

but i know asymetric warfare.

srsly. the su34 fits perfectly well into arma.

geez even bf2 had one and it was really crap, especially since the maps where so small you basically had to fly circles all the time, just to avoid being killed by the level boundaries...

[BLSmith2112 0]

Asymetric balance in a pvp game that has 50% of players on one side wanting to always be on the other 50% because they want it to be realistically even? The other (technology sophisticated) team can use the same tactics as the lesser equipped team, so there is no "homefield advantage", just telling the lesser team to be "smarter" isn't really a good enough incentive.

In single player, it makes perfect sence, its realistic and everything - no complaints here. But as soon as you go online and you have this to deal with:

F-35 Vs.... (What?)

C-130 Vs... (What?)

UAV Vs.... (What?)

It starts to get a little one sided, at least, from what they've already told us at least. Perhaps the CDF will come along to tip the balance a little bit.

[Serclaes 0]

By asymetric balance i mean, that you don't have to give both sides a modern plane, but you could make the plane expensive for the one side and make the AA rockets cheap for the others.

This was imo also a major flaw with CTI in OFP times. Every unit had its exact oponent on the other side, different only in name and model but apart from that, everything was the same. Armor, speed, damage etc.

There was no way to get a tactical advantage/disadvantage on the gear.

I think it could make for a lot more interesting battles if you had to turn the enemies advantage in your advantage. For example, if he had tanks, do not fight in the open. Lure them into the cities and give them an ass full of your cheap AT rockets or your cheap mines, IEDs or other explosive devices.

The thing is to use your tactical brain, instead of just grabbing a gun of bigger size.

If he has short range weapons, attack him on long range (M16 vs AKs). If he has good spotting devices, get good camouflage (UAVs vs Civilian clothing or mockups). if you are outnumbered, fight in narrow places where the enemy stands in each others way. It's tactical 101 really.

[Jman1000 0]

By asymetric balance i mean, that you don't have to give both sides a modern plane, but you could make the plane expensive for the one side and make the AA rockets cheap for the others.

This was imo also a major flaw with CTI in OFP times. Every unit had its exact oponent on the other side, different only in name and model but apart from that, everything was the same. Armor, speed, damage etc.

There was no way to get a tactical advantage/disadvantage on the gear.

I think it could make for a lot more interesting battles if you had to turn the enemies advantage in your advantage. For example, if he had tanks, do not fight in the open. Lure them into the cities and give them an ass full of your cheap AT rockets or your cheap mines, IEDs or other explosive devices.

The thing is to use your tactical brain, instead of just grabbing a gun of bigger size.

If he has short range weapons, attack him on long range (M16 vs AKs). If he has good spotting devices, get good camouflage (UAVs vs Civilian clothing or mockups). if you are outnumbered, fight in narrow places where the enemy stands in each others way. It's tactical 101 really.

Well said!

[bospor 0]

What I always wonder about the Su-34, does anyone have any success using its cannon vs. ground units? I can never point its crosshair on target. I do very well with addons (like RACS Mig-21/27), but Su-34 is nearly impossible. The entire game engine of ground attacking planes needs to be overhauled. It is so stupid for a bomber to slow down to nearly landing speed to drop one bomb on one target and slowly, slowly dive while Vulcans, Shilkas and even tank MG's are easily shooting it down. I have seen so many of Su-34's being easily taking down by .50 cals, its just plain stupid.

[jakerod 254]

Hi, no; i never heard of the "asymmetric balance", i just heard about

the unbalance, and alot.

What i really wonder is why they didn't fixed the Berkut's HUD

brigthness that completly screws up your view with or without the

NVG's by night and that when you're a bit far away, it displays like

in the 2nd LOD or so, the light turned On in the front gear wheel.

They added some pointless stuff (like those damn Camels) and then

they go and add bugged content that haven't fixed like those bugs

on the SU-34 and some more arround there. The SU-34 it's a nice

plane, the AI handles it half well but don't seems to be made thinking

in the human players, at least not with those bugs... . Let's C ya

From what I remember, the camels were already made by a staff member who had made it because he liked WWI planes. They eventually decided to release it.

I think the SU-34 doesn't fit very well but I would rather have that than nothing. I would prefer a Mig-21 or Su-25 or something but you get what you get.

I also agree with Serclaes on his tactics 101 post.

[sv5000 127]

By asymetric balance i mean, that you don't have to give both sides a modern plane, but you could make the plane expensive for the one side and make the AA rockets cheap for the others.

This was imo also a major flaw with CTI in OFP times. Every unit had its exact oponent on the other side, different only in name and model but apart from that, everything was the same. Armor, speed, damage etc.

There was no way to get a tactical advantage/disadvantage on the gear.

I think it could make for a lot more interesting battles if you had to turn the enemies advantage in your advantage. For example, if he had tanks, do not fight in the open. Lure them into the cities and give them an ass full of your cheap AT rockets or your cheap mines, IEDs or other explosive devices.

The thing is to use your tactical brain, instead of just grabbing a gun of bigger size.

If he has short range weapons, attack him on long range (M16 vs AKs). If he has good spotting devices, get good camouflage (UAVs vs Civilian clothing or mockups). if you are outnumbered, fight in narrow places where the enemy stands in each others way. It's tactical 101 really.

Good post.

[wipman 1]

Hi, for me the SU-34 isn't pointless, just a bit weird; a SU-25 or a

YAK-131 would had fit better for the ATG role, but yeah, a SU-34

is pimp. What is not that pimp is that it can't be properly used (by

the player) by night due to the HUD bug and that when it's on the

ground... in the 2Nd LOD or so it shows the front wheels light turned

On, which screws up your sight when you're getting closer etc etc.

That's all what i say, that it haves some bugs that seems that never

gonna be fixed; how the engine handles the aircraft in general, booth

rotary or fixed wing, it's another thing. Let's C ya

[11aTony 0]

Asymetric balance in a pvp game that has 50% of players on one side wanting to always be on the other 50% because they want it to be realistically even? The other (technology sophisticated) team can use the same tactics as the lesser equipped team, so there is no "homefield advantage", just telling the lesser team to be "smarter" isn't really a good enough incentive.

In single player, it makes perfect sence, its realistic and everything - no complaints here. But as soon as you go online and you have this to deal with:

F-35 Vs.... (What?)

C-130 Vs... (What?)

UAV Vs.... (What?)

It starts to get a little one sided, at least, from what they've already told us at least. Perhaps the CDF will come along to tip the balance a little bit.

Thats why you send 3 Su's to deal with 1 x35

And Su-34's MG is ridicolous. It has very limited ammo 180 bullets or so and you cant even hit air targets properly. Bullets start to fall very soon too. I love A10 cannon though. For ground I use rockets or missiles.

[spooky lynx 73]

Presence of hi-end standalone long-range bomber and attack helicopter in the army of small and rather poor country is the same as DShK machinegun on T-72 turret

Note that west side has the same crazy mixture of units - ground forces represent US army, part of air units - USMC aviation.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

...and just when you thought it couldn't get weirder, Army troops wearing Marine gear. Very odd.

[spooky lynx 73]

I forgot about this)) So... Su-34 is part of the main problem of vanilla Arma.