please some hand to hand combat or knifes

[froggyluv 2136]

I really dont understand the hostility towards the whole idea. After all in real life hand to hand combat is something the usmc is trained in quite alot. So adding it to the game would only be simulating a usmc training for the team right? Some people seem to see this as a threat for some reason. I mean its not like some basic hand to hand , melee or a knife is gonna make this sim unrealistic? I mean those who think so should take a real good look at the usmc training program.

I think people are afraid this would devolve the gameplay into COD type slashing affairs which would indeed be tragic if improperly implemented. This reminds me of the similar concern of a jump feature being used to 'bunny hop' aka Counter-Strike style. It all boils down to how realistically these things are coded as not to become exploits.

All though I would like both a melee attack option as well as a realistic, stamina monitored low jump, it won't be a deal-breaker for me if they don't make into ARMA2.

[oscar19681 0]

Same here in i never invisioned hand to hand combat to be arcadish and thus undermines reality. It would not be a show stopper for me either but i think if done well then arma 2 could be even more groundbreaking then it allready seems to be!

[Törni 0]

If hand-to-hand combat is non-existent in the modern battlefield why all armies in the world teach all the techniques to their soldiers.

Wake up people. There are still occasions that you simply have no choice, but to fight with what you got at the moment. What if enemy is simply too close or grabs your weapon arm and you cannot shoot? If you are surprised or taken as a captive and have to escape? And so on and so on.

[wipman 1]

Hi, will be pimp to have a combat knife as part of the basic grunt's

equipment, so when you don't have a side weapon... you just hit

the "swap weapon key" and instead take out the gun, you take out

the knife; and for use it... hit LMB to stab or slash (depending on

where booth units are facing, triggering one anim or another) and

then RMB to block or dodge (depending too of where the units are

facing and also on the player reaction, RMB = dodge. RMB+LMB =

block & stabb back) it's too late for request something like this;

but i really miss something that allows you to defend yourself when

you've depleeted all your ammo, thing this, that isn't that rare when

they only allow you to have 6 mags, ever that you don't take one

M-136 and four cucumbers... instead three, that's what most people

use to do as the AT-4s here aren't a single shot weapon. But anyway...

i'll vote yes for a combat knife with all the work that it'll require

even if the final resoult do not please everyone, look funny, few

realistic and some times even a cheat or just a game's bug. Let's C ya

[froggyluv 2136]

I just watched an episode of History Channel's 'Shootout', a  very interesting show which gives blow-by blow recreations of real life squad level combat. In 2 different present day Iraqi scenarios, Marines were forced to  use their knives for the kill.

In the first scenario, Marines were trying to clear an abandoned hotel when they heard arabic voices coming from the basement as well as the floor above. Being that their orders were to clear the building from the ground up, they sent a unit into the basement, when the soldier in the lead came face to face with an Iraqi insurgent holding an RPG. The Marine stated that he was just too close to effectively use his rifle, drew his knife, and stabbed his enemy in the head.

The second scenario was in Fallujah, when Marines were trying to secure an outdoor area dedicated to allow the Iraqi civilians free access to voting, when shots erupted from a heavily tweeded, marshy area in which one Marine, one Insurgent were killed in the exchange. The Marines, belived there to be other insurgents hidden in the heavily concealed position, so one soldier, dropped his rifle, and stealthfully entered the low-visibilty area, stalked and attacked the Insurgent, killing him by knife in the encounter.

[oscar19681 0]

Yeah i see what you mean.

[faguss 65]

Close combat could be useful in stealth missions.

Anyway this could be simply achieved by independent addonmaker (you saw Jedi addon for OFP - nothing's impossible). Why BI should do it?

[oscar19681 0]

Close combat could be useful in stealth missions.

Anyway this could be simply achieved by independent addonmaker (you saw Jedi addon for OFP - nothing's impossible). Why BI should do it?

Becuase as a customer i pay there bills

[faguss 65]

As a customer I'd rather pay for a stable and compatible with various hardware product.

[Placebo 29]

Becuase as a customer i pay there bills

By such logic I should be able to tell John Grisham that he must end his next Lawyer thriller in the way I want it to end......

The world doesn't work that way I'm afraid.

[Raphier 0]

If hand-to-hand combat is non-existent in the modern battlefield why all armies in the world teach all the techniques to their soldiers.

Wake up people. There are still occasions that you simply have no choice, but to fight with what you got at the moment. What if enemy is simply too close or grabs your weapon arm and you cannot shoot? If you are surprised or taken as a captive and have to escape? And so on and so on.

I think the only reason we want knives and close-combat techinques is because it's "Teen Cool" Just like fast-roping from helicopters or a pilot maneuvering some unnatural 'teen cool' move with Fixed wing aircrafts. If this will be implented in Arma 2, it will look not as 'Teen cool" as many think it will be and only arguments will pour throught roofs.

Even if some people use close-combat techniques during being caught, but take a note that you will hardly get caught in Arma 2, you'll just respawn youself to avoid such situation.

So you basically will see people move towards enemy positioned wall and see them switch to a knife and move form the corner and get killed. I've fitnessed this god knows how much. It's stupid and idiotic behaviour, but you see people aren't maneuvering in such idiosm when they don't have tools for such behaviour.

my 0.02$

[dmakatra 1]

Over the eight years that I've played OFP/ArmA, I've never ever felt that I wish I was able to engage in HtH combat.

Sure, it wouldn't hurt and would must certainly be realistic but the question is - will it be a necessary feature? Would it be contributing to the product enough to delegate resources for the development of this feature? Most likely not.

Every single soldier in every modern army in the world is given time to sleep, eat or take a shit. Some are designated to mowing lawns occassionaly. Many are seated in front of a computer with administrative tasks. Would incorporating these features make the game better? Just as HtH combat, they wouldn't hurt, but they wouldn't contribute in any significant amount either.

Some of the requests or expectations that are thrown out to BIS in this community are, at the risk of sounding like an elitistic shithead, not well thought through. Yes, it would be nice with this and that, but the resources are not infinite. What would you rather have: three days of a programmers time put into perfecting HtH combat, or three days of a programmers time put into improving the AI or optimizing the code?

[froggyluv 2136]

Mowing the lawn and bodily functions are not combat oriented nor relevant. The ability to have a last resort defense when the sh*t hits the fan is. I don't care if its a knife or a rifle butt strike, these things do happen and are at times necessary in modern combat times especially in recent conflicts like Iraq.

I really wish people would stop assuming that this feature is only wanted for "Hollywood type Teen Cool" sophmoric pleasure. To me, it is a greater immersion buster when I'm out of ammo, or gun is jammed, that I have absolutely no option to do anything when cornered in CQB. It's that 'nothingness' that is far more unrealistic than the desire to srike out with a last ditch effort in hopes of disabling and perhaps gaining the enemies weapon. Like I've stated, I've always used SLX's melee addon and in fact have only used it 1%  of the time but just knowing it's there is enough for my immersion demands.

The argument of 'is this worth the resource time' is a valid one and I would concede if that's the case but also remember BIS added karate-like kata moves to Arma that were totally meaningless.

[Raphier 0]

Mowing the lawn and bodily functions are not combat oriented nor relevant. The ability to have a last resort defense when the sh*t hits the fan is. I don't care if its a knife or a rifle butt strike, these things do happen and are at times necessary in modern combat times especially in recent conflicts like Iraq.

I really wish people would stop assuming that this feature is only wanted for "Hollywood type Teen Cool" sophmoric pleasure. To me, it is a greater immersion buster when I'm out of ammo, or gun is jammed, that I have absolutely no option to do anything when cornered in CQB. It's that 'nothingness' that is far more unrealistic than the desire to srike out with a last ditch effort in hopes of disabling and perhaps gaining the enemies weapon. Like I've stated, I've always used SLX's melee addon and in fact have only used it 1%  of the time but just knowing it's there is enough for my immersion demands.

The argument of 'is this worth the resource time' is a valid one and I would concede if that's the case but also remember BIS added karate-like kata moves to Arma that were totally meaningless.

But the point is, if you've played ofp/arma, you should know that finding and shooting target is already hard, coordinating in houses is hard.

While you think that when you've out of ammo, you'll be able to sneak onto somebody? I mean    I want to witness such situation. you should witness is too, to understand how great pain in the is is going to be.

Out of ammo? resupply. No supply? respawn. as simple as that.

Having cq knife, might be cool and nice if implented, but dude, I know not if it will be any useful in such game as arma.

(test it in the game, you can have a pistol, act liek a knife. Try to sneak onto somebdoy, touch that person and fire a gun, which is techinally a knife hit).

Try it on singleplayer, try it on multiplayer. What's the percent that you will survive the attack? 5%? 10%

I think it's merely 0.5%, and trying to escape is 40%. Resupplying is about 50%.

so escaping is more valuable than trying to knife somebody. it's risky and works very rarely.

[froggyluv 2136]

While you think that when you've out of ammo, you'll be able to sneak onto somebody? I mean    I want to witness such situation. you should witness is too, to understand how great pain in the is is going to be.

Out of ammo? resupply. No supply? respawn. as simple as that.

Having cq knife, might be cool and nice if implented, but dude, I know not if it will be any useful in such game as arma.

(test it in the game, you can have a pistol, act liek a knife. Try to sneak onto somebdoy, touch that person and fire a gun, which is techinally a knife hit).

Respawn? That's realistic and immersive

I don't need to witness as I posted on the previous page real life situations which I saw recreated- and yes, really happened.

I had a situation while playing OFP's excellent vietnam mod Unsung with SLX, in which while attempting to infilitrate an enemy outpost, I was pinned down in extremely dense foliage, out of ammo and my men were dead. Being that it was dark and extremely low visiblity, I couldn,t see where my comrades had fallen to retrieve their munitions and I surely couldnt stand up as enemy MG's were actively looking for me. I waited for a long time, sneaking while prone until I was able to get within a madman's sprint of one machinegunner by the campfire. Drew my knife, and made my all-or-nothing lunge and was able to hack him down. Luckily his mates were about 100m off at that point and was thereby able to plant myself with my newly acquired gun and take them out.

Sure I could have just turned the game off or repawned, but that was far more immersive and one game that I'll never forget.

Edit- Not all mission have an 'escape' until the objective is completed.

[Raphier 0]

While you think that when you've out of ammo, you'll be able to sneak onto somebody? I mean    I want to witness such situation. you should witness is too, to understand how great pain in the is is going to be.

Out of ammo? resupply. No supply? respawn. as simple as that.

Having cq knife, might be cool and nice if implented, but dude, I know not if it will be any useful in such game as arma.

(test it in the game, you can have a pistol, act liek a knife. Try to sneak onto somebdoy, touch that person and fire a gun, which is techinally a knife hit).

Respawn? That's realistic and immersive

I don't need to witness as I posted on the previous page real life situations which I saw recreated- and yes, really happened.

I had a situation while playing OFP's excellent vietnam mod Unsung with SLX, in which while attempting to infilitrate an enemy outpost, I was pinned down in extremely dense foliage, out of ammo and my men were dead. Being that it was dark and extremely low visiblity, I couldn,t see where my comrades had fallen to retrieve their munitions and I surely couldnt stand up as enemy MG's were actively looking for me. I waited for a long time, sneaking while prone until I was able to get within a madman's sprint of one machinegunner by the campfire. Drew my knife, and made my all-or-nothing lunge and was able to hack him down. Luckily his mates were about 100m off at that point and was thereby able to plant myself with my newly acquired gun and take them out.

Sure I could have just turned the game off or repawned, but that was far more immersive and one game that I'll never forget.

Edit- Not all mission have an 'escape' until the objective is completed.

I imagine, you came close, pressed a button, a small very fast animation happened and plank , he was dead in matter of 0.01 seconds?

[froggyluv 2136]

Thats exactly what happened    Although he turned quickly and almost fired which is what usually happens. I helped beta tested SLX for both OFP and Arma so I've experienced this probably more than most people. And the fact that the animations and reactions were so silly are exactly the reason I am hoping for BIS to support this with professional standard.

[Raphier 0]

Thats exactly what happened    Although he turned quickly and almost fired which is what usually happens. I helped beta tested SLX for both OFP and Arma so I've experienced this probably more than most people. And the fact that the animations and reactions were so silly are exactly the reason I am hoping for BIS to support this with professional standard.

the reason knife kills work in games is because of it's agility and speed.

But for realism matter, it just won't work, it's one of overpowered weapons, a cheap kill sort of way.

That's why I am afraid of such implentation into Arma 2, because if it's agile and over-powered, it will kill,and many players will try to use it as an exploit rather than a game mechanic, or if it's realistic and slow, it'll barely useful. So we could here logically think of a medium, not too agile nor too fast, but there's no such think as that for a knife in games. It's either too fast, or it's either too slow.

[froggyluv 2136]

It seems your concerns are MP oriented in which case both mission designers and servers could easily disable them.

As far as the power of the weapon, yes knives do frickin hurt in RL as well as being extremely quick. Thats their advantage. Their disadvantage is range and as I stated, 19 times outta 20 I would be shot down before closing the distance while testing SLX. So it ain't cheap, just a last resort.

For both non-lethal gunshots and H/H, I'd like to see a stunned effect to the victim thereby reducing the '1 stab' and their dead problem.

[oscar19681 0]

The thing is when you look at the team razor pdf on the site you can see that everybody in the team has completed the MACMAP training module. Macmap stands for marine corps martial arts programe. it includes every aspect of martial arts including knife,s and punches etc etc. Wouldnt it be cool if this was reflected to some extent into the game ?

[celery 8]

If hand-to-hand combat is non-existent in the modern battlefield why all armies in the world teach all the techniques to their soldiers.

Wake up people. There are still occasions that you simply have no choice, but to fight with what you got at the moment. What if enemy is simply too close or grabs your weapon arm and you cannot shoot? If you are surprised or taken as a captive and have to escape? And so on and so on.

I think the only reason we want knives and close-combat techinques is because it's "Teen Cool" Just like fast-roping from helicopters or a pilot maneuvering some unnatural 'teen cool' move with Fixed wing aircrafts. If this will be implented in Arma 2, it will look not as 'Teen cool" as many think it will be and only arguments will pour throught roofs.

Even if some people use close-combat techniques during being caught, but take a note that you will hardly get caught in Arma 2, you'll just respawn youself to avoid such situation.

So you basically will see people move towards enemy positioned wall and see them switch to a knife and move form the corner and get killed. I've fitnessed this god knows how much. It's stupid and idiotic behaviour, but you see people aren't maneuvering in such idiosm when they don't have tools for such behaviour.

my 0.02$

Maybe Armed Assault 2 should be a normal fps game with limited levels and actions so that those thousands of idiots would not do stupid things like wander off the mission area or teamkill their friends or crash their plane into a tree or suck at sniping.

Seriously, what stops you from walking in front of the enemy or blowing yourself up with a bad grenade throw? Do you feel the need to kill infantry with an AT weapon because you have one? Why are you able to put down a satchel charge and kill your whole squad with it?

[Baff1 0]

If hand-to-hand combat is non-existent in the modern battlefield why all armies in the world teach all the techniques to their soldiers.

Wake up people. There are still occasions that you simply have no choice, but to fight with what you got at the moment. What if enemy is simply too close or grabs your weapon arm and you cannot shoot? If you are surprised or taken as a captive and have to escape? And so on and so on.

I think the only reason we want knives and close-combat techinques is because it's "Teen Cool" Just like fast-roping from helicopters or a pilot maneuvering some unnatural 'teen cool' move with Fixed wing aircrafts. If this will be implented in Arma 2, it will look not as 'Teen cool" as many think it will be and only arguments will pour throught roofs.

Even if some people use close-combat techniques during being caught, but take a note that you will hardly get caught in Arma 2, you'll just respawn youself to avoid such situation.

So you basically will see people move towards enemy positioned wall and see them switch to a knife and move form the corner and get killed. I've fitnessed this god knows how much. It's stupid and idiotic behaviour, but you see people aren't maneuvering in such idiosm when they don't have tools for such behaviour.

my 0.02$

Funnily this is the exact reason I think most people do not want it.

The gun is more glamorous.

People are more intrested in using the latest SCAR with Eotech sights and silencers and .50 cal sniper rifles.

There is no tecno-cool to your average teen gunporno fan in a bayonet. It's not Hollywood enough for them.

It is however extremely tactical.

The choice to attach a bayonet before entering a building, a city or a forest allows the player to give himelf a CQB advantage.

[NoRailgunner 0]

If there is no proper hand to hand animation you wont use it or simply whine/moan again about "bad bad BIS developer".

Quote[/b] ]It is however extremely tactical.The choice to attach a bayonet before entering a building, a city or a forest allows the player to give himelf a CQB advantage.

Errm.. how do you know whats behind doors, walls and other obstacles? Its bs to talk about advantages if you dont know exactly were the bad guy is and what he is waiting for.

Who said Arma2 will be a CQB shooter or even close to (real) CQC?  

[CyDoN 0]

the only reason soldiers are given a knife is to use it as a tool, not to slay people.

Guys you watch too much Rambo. Maybe u want backflip kick and some Chuck Norris action?

[tsb247 0]

I don't really see any use in adding knife fighting in this game. Why bother with it when you probably won't get any closer than 30m or so. I could rationalize bayonets, but I don't think they would be a great idea either.