The financial crisis and ArmA2/BIS

[POTS 0]

Oh certainly the OFP/ArmA series can be seen as close to be simulators, but as long as most soldiers/armed people just go prone in the middle of a street instead of trying to take even the lightest of the covers, you just can't say

Quote[/b] ]The outcome from a battle would be very close if it were carried out in real life.

Because it is wrong every AI in ArmA/OFP goes prone in a middle of a street while in real situations even totally untrained armed average joes will take as much cover as they can when a firefight is occuring, that's just called survival instinct and every human without a death wish has it in his guts.

Can you please read my whole post and quote my whole post? I hate it when people don't read my entire post then assume this. I SAID ASSUMING THEY WERE ALL HUMAN PLAYERS. WHICH IS WHAT THE MILITARY USES!

[Second 0]

Oh certainly the OFP/ArmA series can be seen as close to be simulators, but as long as most soldiers/armed people just go prone in the middle of a street instead of trying to take even the lightest of the covers, you just can't say

Quote[/b] ]The outcome from a battle would be very close if it were carried out in real life.

Because it is wrong every AI in ArmA/OFP goes prone in a middle of a street while in real situations even totally untrained armed average joes will take as much cover as they can when a firefight is occuring, that's just called survival instinct and every human without a death wish has it in his guts.

Can you please read my whole post and quote my whole post? I hate it when people don't read my entire post then assume this. I SAID ASSUMING THEY WERE ALL HUMAN PLAYERS. WHICH IS WHAT THE MILITARY USES!

I'm not so sure about that. Sometimes they might, but i'd say not very often.

But when it comes to working with basics like convoy getting ambushed or something there probably is not humans playing as OpFor, but AI designed for that mission's porpuse. AI is simple, it's good (adn cheap) opponent for learning basics. It doesn't complicate things and it does as it has been told to do, by training instructors.

Human opponents more probably are saved for advanced (two-sided) training which most likely is done in training grounds anyways, with Miles-kit or without.

[Pulverizer 1]

Come on POTS...

You don't seriously think ArmA enviroment has anywhere near the definition of real life terrain. Or that ArmA accurately models invidual soldier's fear of death, fatigue, stress, injuries etc. Or that the weapons systems and weapon effects are 100% accurate on tanks, attack aircraft etc. Or that real life gun shot wounds are almost always instantly fatal, and that a medic can heal a crippled guy in a matter of seconds... That's completely ridiculous, ask anyone. Even Walker or BIS

Even if we assumed ArmA didn't have thousands of overly abstract, incorrect and inaccurate variables and mechanics... There's no way you will ever get a game to play like real life combat unless it's so high-tech that the subjects actually believe they could die.

[POTS 0]

Come on POTS...

You don't seriously think ArmA enviroment has anywhere near the definition of real life terrain. Or that ArmA accurately models invidual soldier's fear of death, fatigue, stress, injuries etc. Or that the weapons systems and weapon effects are 100% accurate on tanks, attack aircraft etc. Or that real life gun shot wounds are almost always instantly fatal, and that a medic can heal a crippled guy in a matter of seconds... That's completely ridiculous, ask anyone. Even Walker or BIS

Even if we assumed ArmA didn't have thousands of overly abstract, incorrect and inaccurate variables and mechanics... There's no way you will ever get a game to play like real life combat unless it's so high-tech that the subjects actually believe they could die.

It's a combat simulator, not an infantry simulator. Or an aircraft simulator for that matter. It is designed so the military may carry out a mission before they actualy do it. You can only do these things in ofp and ArmA. No other game is capable of this. If the military had a problem with the realism I'm sure they would cancel buisness.

[Pulverizer 1]

They don't have a problem with realism because they don't use it as a simulator to determine the outcome of battles

It's a simple training tool, so it's probably used to rehearse things that are simple and specific enough to be rehearsed in a virtual enviroment. Like a platoon maneuver or construction of a road block, you don't even need "enemies" in the mission to rehearse such.

[Fresh- 6]

Happy New Year everyone.

Seems to me ya'll missed the most important factor regarding Arma2 sales in this shitty economy: ADDICTION.

People will do anything to satisfy an addiction. And as someone else pointed out, in these shitty times, people want distraction.

As I see it, this series from OFP to ARMA2 is highly addictive, much like cigarettes or alcohol. Research has shown that video games can cause the brain to have certain reactions which we become addicted to. Perhaps even more than other titles, anyone who's become well acquainted with the series can attest to the countless hours spent immersed in battle, sometimes heart pounding like no other game can deliver, especially multiplayer. I don't think any other titles compare in terms of immersion and reality. This stuff is addictive. BIS has a very loyal fanbase which should keep them sustained and hopefully profitable.

Let's face it, there's a bunch of Arma addicts roaming these forums, I being one of them. If a mere $50 can satisfy my ArmA2 desire, no problem. Credit card if need be. I just hope it'll work with SLI.

Ps: Nobody's mentioned anything about the flight model in the forums..guess I'll go post to suggestions.

[Perun 0]

They don't have a problem with realism because they don't use it as a simulator to determine the outcome of battles

It's a simple training tool, so it's probably used to rehearse things that are simple and specific enough to be rehearsed in a virtual enviroment. Like a platoon maneuver or construction of a road block, you don't even need "enemies" in the mission to rehearse such.

Yes that is what is VBS/VBS2 used for. They only use it to precise the drill, to learn soldiers what should they do, not to learn them aim, not to learn them run, not to learn them fear of bullets ...

First PC game used for learning drills was Wolfenstein, not Return to castle Wolfenstein, but the old Wolfenstein. What do you think army used it for?

[General Barron 0]

They don't have a problem with realism because they don't use it as a simulator to determine the outcome of battles

It's a simple training tool, so it's probably used to rehearse things that are simple and specific enough to be rehearsed in a virtual enviroment. Like a platoon maneuver or construction of a road block, you don't even need "enemies" in the mission to rehearse such.

Give this man a cookie. He's hit the nail on the head. You'll also notice the difference between a training tool and a video game. Very few of you would play Arma if there was nothing to shoot. No matter how realistic it was.

[PhilippRauch 0]

well, isnt this thread about the financial crisis and bis/bia's wellbeing?

I think Walker explained it thoroughly and properly what the situation is. Few personal opinions but mere facts ordered to be understandable in this context. Very scientific approach for posting in a forum, i like that. It was fun to read.

Only in the end the discussion warped to splitting hairs about some words definitions.

Walker just pointed it out more correctly/precisely, that it is just a word definition if it IS a game or a simulation .

both could be both so BIS/BIA will do well anyway, because people play and fight each other still, so they will always need games and tools to teach that.

What he also said is that ArmA and VBS alike are just MODs of the Virtual Reality Engine BIS created. Just mods ppl, just mods...

[Törni 0]

I don't know if this belongs here, but it maybe does. So ->

Lately there has been news about change of publisher. If it is true it is interesting to see if they demand alteration of content and shift of focus in order to secure more sales.

Officially nothing has been said, so have to wait and see. It would not be the first time this happens. For the masses realism and simulation are synonyms of boring and too hard to learn.

EDIT: From what I understand of the badly translated online articles it seems that ArmA2 is still more about military simulation than traditional no-brainer shooter.

[Maddmatt 1]

I don't know if this belongs here, but it maybe does. So ->

Lately there has been news about change of publisher. If it is true it is interesting to see if they demand alteration of content and shift of focus in order to secure more sales...

Change of publisher? ArmA had several different publishers for different regions, not one single publisher. So which one is changing?

The old publisher for Australia has closed down so they need a new one there. But I really doubt that those publishers have a big influence on the game as BIS seems to work independently.

[Törni 0]

It is good if they can retain as much independence as possible. There are many examples how some games that were excellent when they existed on PC were totally ruined when console madness took over and became the only design goal.

But on the developer's point of view favoring consoles is understandable. Very little piracy as you have to physically tamper with the hardware. Only one universal hardware combo to worry about (instead of zillions).

[gonk 0]

push more on-line purchasing... to cut down on the middle man and increase returns.

[ck-claw 1]

push more on-line purchasing... to cut down on the middle man and increase returns.

Have to agree but,soo many of us like to have a hard copy.

[Fresh- 6]

Regarding on-Line sales...i think it's a great idea. At first I was reluctant, but that's how I ended up getting Arma, through Metaboli. I later purchased a hard copy in the store.

I think BIS should allow us to submit our email address on the ARMA2 website and send us an email when ARMA2 ready to be released. This would also give them an idea of how many folks are interested and it would let us know where to buy/download upon completion. Why not deliver the goods directly to the fans? Anyway, I can't wait for this thing!

[Praelium 0]

@ Feb. 02 2009' date='20:23)']Regarding on-Line sales...i think it's a great idea. At first I was reluctant, but that's how I ended up getting Arma, through Metaboli. I later purchased a hard copy in the store.

I think BIS should allow us to submit our email address on the ARMA2 website and send us an email when ARMA2 ready to be released. This would also give them an idea of how many folks are interested and it would let us know where to buy/download upon completion.  Why not deliver the goods directly to the fans? Anyway, I can't wait for this thing!

I like the idea of subscribing to BIS. Since they said that there will be weekly Arma II updates, I think it might be worth it.

[De_little_Bubi 1]

count me in

[SASrecon 0]

good idea, and me!

i can't believe that we're so close to the release (10 or so weeks) and we can't pre-order a copy yet!?!  

waiting for ARMA2 is doing my head in

[Deadfast 43]

There was no date set for the release yet

[Fresh- 6]

This is off topic, but since we've started talking about it. Would it be possible for BIS to setup a mailing list that we could subscribe to? It's very simple to set up.

Bis could get an estimate of how many people are truly interested and we could be notified when the goods are ready to move.

In addition, many of us fans are grown adults and have money to spend. Why not offer a 'special' download , pre release version, (as is, patched later) for the die hard fans who'll gladly pay $65-75? Some folks want to wait for a 'finished version', some folks can handle the imperfections of a masterpiece. In any case, this thing could be patched to perfection.

All said,  this Arma series is priceless. Keep up the good work!

[NoRailgunner 0]

Fresh![NUTZ] it doesnt help the developers/publishers if they would release an unfinished game before release. Bit naive to think that anyone will really pay $75 for a game thats not "done".

Expected release date: 2009  

[ck-claw 1]

Bit naive to think that anyone will really pay $75 for a game thats not "done".

Why not?

We did for Arma.

[Second 0]

Bit naive to think that anyone will really pay $75 for a game thats not "done".

Why not?

We did for Arma.  

Sadly there is so few of us Compared to them (who didn't)

[Pyronick 21]

An early adaptors kit would great for die-hard BIS/BIA fans yes, it should however have an NDA for preventing disclosure of in-game media to the public.

[Commando84 0]

lol sounds almost like a closed beta test thingy with a NDA and stuff. pretty cool though if you got to do it you could say im working for Bis for a secret project