Binoculars

[sluggCDN 0]

Guys,

feel free to shoot me down on this. But I was voicing this topic many times and I believe there was even a request made on the BIS bug/improvement report log. Nothing has been done as of yet. It's a gameplay functional issue on the par with the high recoil of the jeep monted grenade-launchers or disfunctional AI pathfinding issue.

In ArmA like in OFP we have the kind of binocular that has the most autrocious interactive features in the entire FPS gaming world. It's the kind of gadget that a players is staying away from using during gameplay as mush as possible since it gets in the way of interacting with other features and "tools" in the game. It doesn't allow for any freedom of movement when being used. Interacting with it starts off a horribly protracted animation sequences that simply irritate the hell outta me and anyone I know that plays ArmA. Very often because of how messed up it is, the animation sequences are absolutely unpredictable.

To give you an example - I was playing yesterday and switched from a rifle to a handgun. I accidently, from the action menu selected a binocular instead of switching back to the rifle. Here is what transpired. I was immobilized by the binocular being brought up right away to my eyes. I then went back to switch to the rifle. The animation of switching from binocular was not as easy. Since I had a handgun before I switched to the bino, my character put the bino back, then pulled out the handgun and then put the handgun back and pulled out the rifle. But since it so messed up the animation loop of switching back and forth between the handgun and the rifle was replayed 3 times until finally my character ended up with the rifle in his hands.

3 simple questions to BIS:

1. Why is the binocular not defined as a weapon which would automatically allow us pull it out as lets say a handgun and walk around with it in our hands freely?

2. Why is the binocular set up in such a way that when we select it we have no option of briging it up to our eyes when we choose? If you choose the bino you are automatically put into the zoomed-in mode and deprived of seeing anything outside the bino's lense. The view angle is very limited.

3. Why is the bino put into the action/weapons menu and not simply activated by an assigned key like a compass or a watch or the NVGs? Very often when trying to select my weapon or action from the action menu i accidently select the bino and it starts this painful protracted bino animation.

Possible solutions:

Define bino as an addon weapon class so it can be pulled much like a rifle or a handgun allowing a player to move freely with it in his hands. The choice of when to bring it up to his eyes will also be left to the player. Looking thru bino would be activated thru the "Optics" assigned key, much like looking thru a rifle scope function. Such setup will also let players look thru the bino and move as they wish in the zoomed-in mode. This was stated so many times, but BIS is still playing deaf. When looking thru a bino and getting his view obstructed a player has to switch back to his rifle, move aside switch from the rifle back to the bino and only then get unobstructed view. It's a very user-unfriendly and painful process. If during a firefight I'm caught up in this mind-numbing animation sequences I can be quite sure I'll be dead if a bot or an opponent walks in on me. The issue is also complicated by the most rediculous closed-loop animation system that a player cannot snap out of until after the animations is complete.

[LeftSkidLow 1]

Agreed

[biggerdave 56]

Binocular can be selected with a key. Try "b"

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Yes, make the bins a thingy you can pull out and look through

(and over) as desired. I largely gave up using them ages ago

(back in OFP days actually) because of the restrictions

highlighted in the OP.

[Daniel 0]

Totally agreed.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Well, something like that might be hard for the AI to figure out. It'd be even more awkward to see them running around in combat with binoculars equipped a lot of the time.

Besides, this isn't going to happen in ArmA (not this late), and it should be better in ArmA II with the improved animation system, so I see no reason for this thread to exist.

[leckig 0]

this is just like the "slow motion" movement with RPG bug that has only now been fixed after 8 years.

Little bugs that make no sense are very annoying.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

I gave up using the default bins and jury-rigged a rough

workaround for myself by hacking a pistol addon to add a

telescopic optic. It works fine for me as I never carry pistols

in the game and it provides somewhat more realistic binocular-

like attributes (I can use it on the move - it disables if I try

to run - and I can swap weapons more quickly). I only use it

myself; the AI still use the BIS bins. It serves its purpose in

the absence of anything better.

If there's interst I (or a more skilled addon maker) could

maybe make a little "player only" telescope addon for the

pistol slot so you can run around like Captain Aubrey.

[.kju 3244]

Sure. Please PM me the code and I can make a PROPER addon.

[Wolfrug 0]

Hm, well. Both Binocs and NVGs ARE already defined as weapons (just use the Weapons command on anyone carrying some and you'll see them in the list), albeit slightly 'strange' ones. Removing the binocs from the action menu should be quite possible, since as someone mentioned, there is a shortcut key for it.

But as you turning them into the kind of weapons you're suggesting, ponder this:

1) The animation system would still be in place, just like it is when you switch between your shoulder-launcher/pistol/rifle. Meaning the physical part of waiting for you to get the binoc in-hand is just as long, except now it's not placed automatically in front of your eyes, you have to use it.

2) The hard-coded difficulty of this : ArmA and OFP soldiers traditionally only have the three possible weapons : pistol, rifle, launcher. Making the binocs a weapon that you can use like the others is probably a bit too much for the engine right now. Although modders would love it.

3) We'd get an equal if not even greater amounts of complaints about the animations of running into an enemy with your binocular out as we've gotten with the whole launcher debacle. As mentioned, we'd have to go through the whole animation of packing away the binocs and pulling out the rifle, getting oneself killed foh' shure.

I do sympathise however, but ultimately I think a change like this would just be annoying rather than anything else. I've never had any problems using the binocs though, not even while lying down under fire directing my soldiers. Just be sure you're stationary when you use it, and don't try to do a million things at once.

Regards,

Wolfrug

[7 0]

solution: stop going lonewolf. if you have a teammate to cover your sector having the binoculars up wont be a problem. and if you keep getting shot get a better tactic rather than blame everything on the developers. i admit its not flawless though, because if you take fire in real life you can always just drop the binoculars.

[benreeper 0]

I never had a problem with the binocs. I only use them when appropriate. I like the fact that it's not real easy for a player to quickly run, zoom, spot and shoot. The binocs require the user to either have concealment and/or teammates protecting you.

--Ben

[JeRK 0]

I think you should be able to move while holding them, yet when you do you stop looking into them.

[Daniel 0]

You don't need a bodyguard to use a pair of binos in real life. Although yes, obviously, that would make sense during extended periods of observation. But that's not what we're talking about, unfortunately this is just a bad design. Simple as.

Col Faulkner's solution sounds pretty sweet - I tend not to use the pistol slot either, usually got that filled up with spare UGL rounds.

[shinRaiden 0]

This has little to do with the engine.

The binoc's branch into a specific anims branch (configs) because they're flagged, probably via the type=WeaponSlotBinocular; property. You just need to make more anims and re-branch the configs.

Although, when was the last time you attempted to maintain a stable viewing in real life while walking around? Kinda pointless imho, too much work for a rather trivial little niggly.

[Archer 0]

It would be more practical though, like when I'm behind an object peeking around, to be able to shift a little to the side and get a better view without having to put them away and pull them out again, and be able to unzoom them with the optics key like the M4 Reflex, where you drop them down them bring them up. But one cannot have everything I guess.

[frederf 0]

While I agree that the Binoculars could be done better in ArmA, it seems that the OP wants the same insta-use binoculars that are so awfully done in every other FPS. Ew. Ew. Ew.

Having an animation to bring out the binoculars is a good thing. I'll dress you up in full battle-rattle and time you putting your weapon into a safe position, unfastening a pouch, taking the cups off the ends of the binoculars and bringing it out. You will lose that race to the ArmA animation every time.

However once the binoculars are out, you really should be able to move all about with them in your hands. Say firing brings them up to your eyeballs and firing again lowers them. Hopefully it can forceOptics at the end of the raise to eyeball motion and then return to non-optics when the binoculars leave your eye. Whether your binoculars are up to your eye or not, or looking through the 2D optics mode or not is a very tricky issue when it comes to how you look to others, not blocking your vision with the model when not looking through, etc.

"B" key. A simple addon could remove the Binoculars from the action menu to prevent accidental use.

[Jackal326 1181]

[...]

"B" key. A simple addon could remove the Binoculars from the action menu to prevent accidental use.

Good luck with that. In my experience its not possible to remove the NVGs from the action menu, so I'm summising it will be the same story with the binoculars, that is, unless something monumentally huge has happened in the last 5 days that my absense has caused me to miss.

[Quenaelin 0]

Binoculars are quite realistic already in OFP and ArmA, I don't like anykind of quick eagle eye which is available anytime you want and as fast you want, it isn't realistic. I guess binoculars are made like they are only becouse they are bulky in real world. It really isn't easy to take them out from pouch and but them back, it takes time. Especially army binoculars have tight hardcase leather pouch to prevent shaking and hits, so it takes time to pull them out and look around. Then you really don't want to move with them in muddy or dusty environments especially if you are crawling, just becouse lenses get dirty very easily and it really takes long time to wipe all mud/dirt off from lenses when they get dirty. Main idea is to use them wisely. Binoculars are only used for observation in long ranges, not in close range firefights. Use binoculars only over 300m range and from consealed spot behind cover, then you will be more safe from rifle fire.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Binoculars are quite realistic already in OFP and ArmA, I don't like anykind of quick eagle eye which is available anytime you want and as fast you want, it isn't realistic. I guess binoculars are made like they are only becouse they are bulky in real world. It really isn't easy to take them out from pouch and but them back, it takes time. Especially army binoculars have tight hardcase leather pouch to prevent shaking and hits, so it takes time to pull them out and look around. Then you really don't want to move with them in muddy or dusty environments especially if you are crawling, just becouse lenses get dirty very easily and it really takes long time to wipe all mud/dirt off from lenses when they get dirty. Main idea is to use them wisely. Binoculars are only used for observation in long ranges, not in close range firefights. Use binoculars only over 300m range and from consealed spot behind cover, then you will be more safe from rifle fire.

The annoying thing is that you cant move around with them, not only is thing annoying when you come under fire (As you have to put the whole thing back in your pocket and grabbing your weapon before you can run away), but it is also very annoying when you want to move a few centimeters because some grass/leaves are in the way.

Then again, its not that important, maybe for ArmA2.

[Quenaelin 0]

Binoculars are quite realistic already in OFP and ArmA, I don't like anykind of quick eagle eye which is available anytime you want and as fast you want, it isn't realistic. I guess binoculars are made like they are only becouse they are bulky in real world. It really isn't easy to take them out from pouch and but them back, it takes time. Especially army binoculars have tight hardcase leather pouch to prevent shaking and hits, so it takes time to pull them out and look around. Then you really don't want to move with them in muddy or dusty environments especially if you are crawling, just becouse lenses get dirty very easily and it really takes long time to wipe all mud/dirt off from lenses when they get dirty. Main idea is to use them wisely. Binoculars are only used for observation in long ranges, not in close range firefights. Use binoculars only over 300m range and from consealed spot behind cover, then you will be more safe from rifle fire.

The annoying thing is that you cant move around with them, not only is thing annoying when you come under fire (As you have to put the whole thing back in your pocket and grabbing your weapon before you can run away), but it is also very annoying when you want to move a few centimeters because some grass/leaves are in the way.

Then again, its not that important, maybe for ArmA2.

First when you check your observation spot, you must look that there isn't any grass preventing your view, so you don't have to move anymore when you take your binoculars out. You could do this kind of preview by zooming with your rifle sights.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Binoculars are quite realistic already in OFP and ArmA, I don't like anykind of quick eagle eye which is available anytime you want and as fast you want, it isn't realistic. I guess binoculars are made like they are only becouse they are bulky in real world. It really isn't easy to take them out from pouch and but them back, it takes time. Especially army binoculars have tight hardcase leather pouch to prevent shaking and hits, so it takes time to pull them out and look around. Then you really don't want to move with them in muddy or dusty environments especially if you are crawling, just becouse lenses get dirty very easily and it really takes long time to wipe all mud/dirt off from lenses when they get dirty. Main idea is to use them wisely. Binoculars are only used for observation in long ranges, not in close range firefights. Use binoculars only over 300m range and from consealed spot behind cover, then you will be more safe from rifle fire.

The annoying thing is that you cant move around with them, not only is thing annoying when you come under fire (As you have to put the whole thing back in your pocket and grabbing your weapon before you can run away), but it is also very annoying when you want to move a few centimeters because some grass/leaves are in the way.

Then again, its not that important, maybe for ArmA2.

First when you check your observation spot, you must look that there isn't any grass preventing your view, so you don't have to move anymore when you take your binoculars out. You could do this kind of preview by zooming with your rifle sights.

Really, you cant always predict it good enough when you are lying in a bush.

[leckig 0]

I think we sometimes go to far with this realistic-nonrealistic discussion.

This is a game, and at this time switching the weapon or the binos is too slow and affects the playability. It is very frustration and should be fixed. When I run out of ammo im my m16 and want to get my side pistol, it takes forever and makes it almost always useless.

guys, this is just a game. Just like Suma said in his interview.

[Quenaelin 0]

You could also move up and down with binoculars so it isn't restricted if you have some grass preventing view. Taking sidearm should take time it isn't instantly in your hand.

Yes this is just a game and never can't be as realistic as real world, but I still like it more to be simulator game than another quick FPS game. Keep it as realistic as you can guys.

[EndersLoop 0]

Yeah I won't even use binoculars because the way they're handled in the game right now. Been killed so many times in mp trying to use these things. I am for a modern binocular system. ArmA and it's future sequel won't suffer from having binoculars like in Stalker. Realism is great but taking it too far isn't. This is definitely a sacrifice we can all make to make ArmA and BIS future games a little bit better for everyone.