Bridges

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Please BI can you PLEASE fix the Bridges

on Saharani. In Corazol, Dolores..

AI refuse to drive on them..I can live with

theire stupid driving otherwise but the

bridgedriving is CRUSUAL to the gameplay...

I bet there are more but Dolores and Corazol

are the main problem i think...

Please, please considder making a fix for this.

Or updating the world...

[Spoock 3]

it not so easy

BIS fixed yet, I hope in better moving over bridges in ArmA2

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

I just want them to cross the bridges..

And use the roads given to them...

If set to "At ease" they shuld use ROADS only...

I mean, some bridges work some dont...Why...

[-=seany=- 5]

Yeah Corazol is a major headache trying to get AI through. It was the same in OFP.

[shinRaiden 0]

Bridges are not roads, they never have been in OFP or Arma. They are only simple collision objects with a roadway LOD placed to trick AI that accidentally lands on them. To make bridges pretend to work, requires special tuning of the map so that the AI runs off the end of the road, becomes confused as to what to do, and decides to just run off of the mysterious building it found itself on.

If however, the AI speed is sufficiently slow enough that inertia does not propel it onto the so-called bridge, or if the road objects do not overlap sufficiently far enough over the bridge deck, the AI will properly pull up short and refuse to traverse the obstacle.

On the other hand, in cases more typical of steep embankments (Nogova river bridge embankments) road objects diving down well below the bridge deck can result in a different chaos, where the AI insists on trying to drive through the alleged bridge deck to continue following the road, even though the path is obstructed by the bridge collision geometry.

The short answer is, there is no such thing as a logical bridge in OFP or Arma. It would be interesting to see if setting the model to be a road class object would help, or if collision and other simulation components are deactivated.

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

I think it sounds abit stupid not to have bridges in

a class called roads.

If they had that class, it would be easier to get them

to drive on them, and i think a class called pathways

would help them find their way easier..

Im no programmer at all and i have no clue of what im

talking about so please be nice...I just want the problem

to GO AWAY  

Oh PS: You said they wont drive on bridges at all..

But evidentially they doo..The first bridge in Dolores

from W works fine, so does the first bridge in Corazol

form N heading S...And !Sometimes even the Bagango

works...

[opteryx 1562]

Bridges are not roads, they never have been in OFP or Arma. They are only simple collision objects with a roadway LOD placed to trick AI that accidentally lands on them. To make bridges pretend to work, requires special tuning of the map so that the AI runs off the end of the road, becomes confused as to what to do, and decides to just run off of the mysterious building it found itself on.

If however, the AI speed is sufficiently slow enough that inertia does not propel it onto the so-called bridge, or if the road objects do not overlap sufficiently far enough over the bridge deck, the AI will properly pull up short and refuse to traverse the obstacle.

Maybe a spline based ( Again! ) nav-mesh would be a better solution for AI to find it's way across paths that are elevated above the ground as opposed to relying on it's own stupidity to succeed??

[volkov956 0]

another thing that ails Arma AI is the Size Movement grid which shows why the AI has trouble moving through Tight towns and bridges I have seen a AI go to the middle of the bridge (Soldier) and the other soldier walked in a straight line and would not walk around the soldier. I bet its possible to Lower the Size of the AI Movement Grid to say way smaller like OFP. I know in OFP my ai had no problems using the bridge except once in the while they would drive over the side randomly.

Arma 2 supposedly has the smaller Movement Grid but I dont see why it could not be implemented with a patch since AI in OFP moved more better then AI in arma cause of this

[dmitri 0]

Maybe a spline based ( Again! ) nav-mesh would be a better solution for AI to find it's way across paths that are elevated above the ground as opposed to relying on it's own stupidity to succeed??

Yeah, I don't see the AI improving much without some human placed waypoints.. Not the entire island, but implementing it for the few urban areas would make a difference. Though I'm sure this is easier said than done.

Looking at the ArmA2 vids, perhaps they're already working on something similar?

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Or you could add the abbility to add waypoints

in command mode..Like where you say movements..

IE:

F2+1+ Add Wp and then you could add the waypoints

by clicking the map...

Just come to think of it, thats not helping the bridge

driving problem...But it would be a nice feature anyway..

[DUTCH-BUDDHA 0]

arma2 will be a lot beter thats wy arma1 still sucks in meny wy cos the work to much on 2 i think well chesdt waiting till 2 coms out

[I.M.G. 0]

I've tried many work arounds for the bridges, so many difficulties with them, community wheeled vehicles are very troublesome.

I've created a new roadsurface model & ramps so in effect you drive 0.5 meters above the/a bridge & still i ran into the same issue, so i moved my road surface to the bank beside the bridge, the issue was not rectified, I believe it is in part linked to the terrain.

BIS, Please, please spend some time on this before ArmA II

[alext223 0]

I don't even bother about trying to get units across bridges. Just keep banging my head at why it wont work on anything other than safe! If it does work at all.

Please BIS, work your magic and let us be able to see a AI tank, guns ablaze, crossing a bridge. Or AI infantry trying to storm one.

Please.

[W0lle 1048]

The bridge problem is known and be assured the devs are trying to fix it, however as shinRaiden explained it back in November it's not that easy to solve.

alext223

I would stop banging my head as this could cause serious head injuries, and honestly the bridge problem isn't worth that.

And the excuse 'head injury' doesn't work anymore should you act against the rules here etc.

[Balschoiw 0]

Or simply introduce a new waypoint type "forced" that sends the AI exactly from one point to another without any AI calculations.

This means reading out the angle dependancy between first forced waypoint and original position of AI. Detect the heading of AI, force the heading to match the vector to forced waypoint, use speed setting from waypoint and temporarely disable pathfinding routines by forcing the AI to follow an exact path that is calculated between two "forced" waypoints.

This would even make it possible to move AI on rooftops, balconies, in hallways, etc. Those things are blocked righ now because of the pathfinding routines.

I guess it would be the easiest solution for now.

[baddo 0]

Or simply introduce a new waypoint type "forced"  that sends the AI exactly from one point to another without any AI calculations.

This means reading out the angle dependancy between first forced waypoint and original position of AI. Detect the heading of AI, force the heading to match the vector to forced waypoint, use speed setting from waypoint and temporarely disable pathfinding routines by forcing the AI to follow an exact path that is calculated between two "forced" waypoints.

This would even make it possible to move AI on rooftops, balconies, in hallways, etc. Those things are blocked righ now because of the pathfinding routines.

I guess it would be the easiest solution for now.

Sounds like a setPos loop to me

[Balschoiw 0]

Not really. This would look strange, as if Suma or Marek would pull some strings and the AI over the bridges

No, basically they just should follow a straight line from point 1 to point 2 when using the "forced" waypoint, no matter what height they are at, no matter what obstacles and objects are near. Like drones moving from one point to another without much brain involved.

[paragraphic l 2]

Sort of like having a big sign in front of both sides of the bridge:

STOP THINKING, JUST MOVE!

But that would mean the bridge would actually call some sort of script when near? and is it possible to have something like that only activated when coming from the direction of the road and not from an other side; moving underneath the bridge or flying over the bridge, and offcourse deactivating it when leaving the bridge?

[Balschoiw 0]

I guess it wouldn´t work well if it was permanently embedded by BIS as it would automatically send any vehicle or infantry unit that get on a bridge from one side to another. I guess that makes no sense.

The "forced" waypoint type should be useable for mission editors but not be strictly applied by BIS for bridges by default.

[Ezekiel 0]

Hmmm, I know nothing much of anything about coding, but surely there could be some kind of distinct 'state' (like an FSM) a unit enters when it recongnises that it has to cross a bridge? So like, if the unit it ordered to a certain point and it starts to move and it detects a bridge in the way, it automatically moves to a certain point and starts to cross the bridge along a path (hard-coded in to the island or something).

It'd be kinda like shutting their brain down the second they hit the edge of a bridge, so they can only see the far side and the bridge shaped square of ground in between. They could still use that space as they usually do - stopping, starting, shooting or whatever (cept maybe flanking left and right, that could be disastrous), but if they think 'advance' then they automatically advance towards the point on the far side (or back the way they came if their movement orders suddenly change).

Or some kind of action in the editor you can use, that'd work ok as long as you don't expect them to cross bridges dynamically. I'd be really interested to hear from some of those who are clued up to what the engine is thinking, I know its more complicated than many would think, but I wanna know why!

[W0lle 1048]

That "shutting the brain off" might be an idea but using this the AI won't react (properly) when under fire while on the bridge.

And then, I bet 100,000$, at least one comes up complaining about the stupid AI which doesn't fight/seek cover on the bridge but moving from A to B like lemmings.

[Balschoiw 0]

AI still could and would be able to react. The only limit is that they have to do it on the spot as their pathfinding is temporarely disabled. So they still could aim, go up and down, shoot and other things. It´s just a matter of proper implementation.

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Its aliveee......LOL...

Anyway...I read somewere some ages ago about the rules

of a android/robot...

1: Do not harm Humans

2: Do as your told unless breaking rule nr1

and so on and so on...

Is that any kind of possibillity in a AI engine...??

I realize the millions and billions of rules that would mean

but is it possible...