Filtering out the arcade-servers?

[Grodin 0]

Any other way to filter these servers filled with *arcade* fans out other than playing only on private servers?

Maybe itd be possible to hide the servers that have these *aids* like tags, weapon crosshair, 3rd person, map info and such things that *make it less realistic in my opinion*?

Such a showstopper joining 10 "serious coop servers" finding out 9/10 of them have some of these enabled :S

EDIT: Removed references to other shooter games wich offended some people who like them.

[mattxr 9]

www.gol-clan.net

The server has no 3rd/crosshairs or anything to aid the player as they like relisme.

Search gol in the filter.

[celery 8]

Would you like to explain why the crosshair is an arcade aid? Is it more realistic to have less idea where your gun points than in real life?

[Grodin 0]

Would you like to explain why the crosshair is an arcade aid? Is it more realistic to have less idea where your gun points than in real life?

You cant reliably hit moving people at +50 meters from the hip without lining the sights.

1: You dont have such reticule hovering infront of you irl. Irl you actually have to use this thing called "sights", bullets just wont magically hit exactly where your looking at.

2: Having the gun on your hands in real life same way you have in arma 1st person view you will get just as much "idea" where its pointing as youd get in real life, that aint much, but enough to hit anything you would hit irl doing so.

People who cant hit things near them without the arcade-crosshair are too used to FPS shooters or just need some practice in arma

[tomcat_ 0]

Would you like to explain why the crosshair is an arcade aid? Is it more realistic to have less idea where your gun points than in real life?

i would agree with that..

i had on our server no crosshair...but then i couldn't even calculate where my gun was shooting even when the enemy was 5 meters in front of me. The way the gun is presented with relevance to the camera doesn't give you the feel. And i'm talking from the upper right position not from the hip.

The truemods with the latest true vision is helping a bit on that cause when you zoom out you can see nearly the whole gun and the gun is pointing towards the middle of the screen so u have a better feeling...

but right now the upper ready and without sights on position is not giving you the feeling of where you are aiming...

as far as the tags is concerned i had them off initially as well..

however there is no way to customize the soldiers apart from face...so it's difficult to say who is who...in real life every person has different body build....or different way of walking etc...u can tell who is who..in a game...u cannot...

if a mod comes out with different bones structure or even different bones animation then tags will not be necessary...

[Grodin 0]

Would you like to explain why the crosshair is an arcade aid? Is it more realistic to have less idea where your gun points than in real life?

i would agree with that..

i had on our server no crosshair...but then i couldn't even calculate where my gun was shooting even when the enemy was 5 meters in front of me. The way the gun is presented with relevance to the camera doesn't give you the feel. And i'm talking from the upper right position not from the hip.

The truemods with the latest true vision is helping a bit on that cause when you zoom out you can see nearly the whole gun and the gun is pointing towards the middle of the screen so u have a better feeling...

but right now the upper ready and without sights on position is not giving you the feeling of where you are aiming...

as far as the tags is concerned i had them off initially as well..

however there is no way to customize the soldiers apart from face...so it's difficult to say who is who...in real life every person has different body build....or different way of walking etc...u can tell who is who..in a game...u cannot...

if a mod comes out with different bones structure or even different bones animation then tags will not be necessary...

Ofcourse it doesnt give you the "feel" unless you practice it.

You wont hit targets from the hip in real life either unless you practice.

I can hit most things up to 10 meters easily without the reticule in arma..

In OFP the M203 had no reticule either but thats well manageable too!

Putting burst on someones chest on the other side of town with half seconds aiming from the hip is just too counterstrikeish to be realistic.

And what comes to knowing who is who, if you cant tell it by hes equipment, hands and head texture, you should be able to tell it by looking at the formation. If hes going around ramboing and not keeping to hes place in formation, he shouldnt be playing in the first place, if its realistic server that is.

And since the only part in this game that could be considered somehow "realistic" in most parts is the infantry stuff... couldnt all these arcade gamers go fly planes or drive tanks wich dont interest realism hungry players at all, those will never be near flight sims or tank sims in flightmodeling or weaponsmodeling or anything.. then we wouldnt mind just leave our infantry alone

[SeppSchrot 0]

I think it was not later than the patch who introduced the new aim view that the last justification for the "infantry cursor" got stamped.

[celery 8]

1: You dont have such reticule hovering infront of you irl. Irl you actually have to use this thing called "sights", bullets just wont magically hit exactly where your looking at.

You don't have a mouse or keyboard in real life either and you don't look through a flat 2D monitor.

2: Having the gun on your hands in real life same way you have in arma 1st person view you will get just as much "idea" where its pointing as youd get in real life, that aint much, but enough to hit anything you would hit irl doing so.

In real life you can feel the weapon in your hands and you have 3D vision which gives a great advantage compared to your "realism" mode. Have you ever been in a laser war? The ones I've been in have guns that have no sights whatsoever so you practically have to shoot without aiming properly. It's actually very easy.

People who cant hit things near them without the arcade-crosshair are too used to FPS shooters or just need some practice in arma

It's not about what you can or can't. It's more difficult than in real life and that's not realism, it's pseudo realism.

If you know a game called Red Orchestra, that is a sad piece of pseudo realistic gameplay. They have no zoom to complement the low resolution of the monitor vs a real eyesight and they have a floating zone with no crosshairs and to make it better, the gun doesn't correlate with the world dimensions so you're shooting blind unless you know the exact pixels when the weapon is pointing somewhere.

The point is that some aids in a game are there for a reason. Not to make it more arcade or "gamish" but to set the player on par with real world performing.

[tomcat_ 0]

well....at the end of the day is up to servers and players to see what they preferred....arma is offering both...

i think though you are confusing the first person view in arma with the shooting from the hip.

I do not think in arma you can shoot from the hip, you are always shooting from the shoulder...

in my opinion the fact that you have your weapon aiming from the shoulder even though u are not looking down the sights it is not reflected realistically in the game. You should see more of your weapon and should point into the middle of your screen.

Check the 3rd person view...and you will see that under no circumstances (unless u run) the player is shooting from the hip..

[Grodin 0]

well....at the end of the day is up to servers and players to see what they preferred....arma is offering both...

i think though you are confusing the first person view in arma with the shooting from the hip.

I do not think in arma you can shoot from the hip, you are always shooting from the shoulder...

in my opinion the fact that you have your weapon aiming from the shoulder even though u are not looking down the sights it is not reflected realistically in the game. You should see more of your weapon and should point into the middle of your screen.

Check the 3rd person view...and you will see that under no circumstances (unless u run) the player is shooting from the hip..

Weapon points exactly to the middle of the screen if u dont have floating enabled wich makes it easy enough to hit in cqb without the sights.

Ofc u cant shoot from the hip unless running, what i mean by "shooting from the hip" is that ur shooting without looking thru the sights. U wont be shooting very accurately IRL without the sights, however in arma and the damn ridiculous reticule setting u never need to use iron sights because it doesnt make you much more accurate.

Getting pretty much same accuracy without aiming as youd get with sights is just ridiculous.

Normal sized towns can well be cleared without using iron sights with the reticule disabled. It doesnt matter in close combat if u have the sights or not u can tell where weapon points anyway just center the target on screen...

point where it gets stupid is when you start killing people far away without using iron sights as you have the reticule aid enabled..

IRL You can hit things close to you without looking trough sights, you can just as well do that in arma with reticule disabled.

What u can not do irl is hit people far away without iron sights, u need to aim to hit something far. However if u enable the reticule in arma u can hit almost anything with it never using the iron sights.

This game cant really get too hard or complicated when it comes to realism, enabling these aids to make it even easier to hit things is not really going for realism.

[ArMoGaDoN 0]

The server settings 'out there' are set by the guys who pay for them.

Personally I prefer friendly-tags on, enemy tags off, GPS+map enemy icons OFF, 3rd person view OFF, and crosshair ON, AI set about 0.95. Friendly tags make up for the lack of comms with many that refuse or dont bother with voice comms - perhaps once ingame voice is reliable this issue will go away, but friendly tags help a lot when identifying folks.

Many folks hate the 3rd person-view off, but in a PVP game it's the only way to avoid cheating by the commander zooming up and out.

It's pointless to debate the relative merits of difficulty and similar settings in here, they are down to personal preference and if you don't like the settings on the servers that other folks pay for, then the answer is simply to buy/rent your own server, or even start a 'real clan' for the absolute 'realism' settings you crave. If you can gather enough folks together under one banner they would help fund such a gruesome server as you described.

Problem solved.

[Grodin 0]

But if some people who like realism and immersion and also feel more realistic when they have the reticule on, how come they dont feel like they are losing the realistic and "im in the game"-feeling when theres white thing bouncing around their screen?

Some spec op missions that are scripted very well have so good immersion i couldnt even imagine playing it with something like the reticule or tags hovering on the screen immedeatly seperating the game from the image of me actually being there.

And having 3d glasses will make those aids break the game even more!

Ofc if you play something arcadish like CTF, Deathmatch or such, tags and reticules are well justified as it doesnt really make it any better having "realistic difficulty settings" when you run around trying to steal flags

[celery 8]

But if some people who like realism and immersion and also feel more realistic when they have the reticule on, how come they dont feel like they are losing the realistic and "im in the game"-feeling when theres white thing bouncing around their screen?

Because it's realistic to have some kind of aid to see where you point as you know it in real life.

Ofc if you play something arcadish like CTF, Deathmatch or such, tags and reticules are well justified as it doesnt really make it any better having "realistic difficulty settings" when you run around trying to steal flags

You are a bit off with the kind of realism we are talking about. Playing something else than SP or coop doesn't mean that realism in game mechanics is suddenly secondary. Realism is why everyone plays this game, no matter what the game type. Hence CTF and DM servers usually have all aids off save for the crosshair.

[tomcat_ 0]

i think the game allows for all kind of gameplay...and that is the strong point of this game...

now there are some things in real life that no realistic game can replace and that is the awareness of your body, people around you etc...

In real life if i'm in a squad of 4-5 people just be looking at the guy next or in front of me or whatever i know who he is...you can even know who is behind you....in a game u cannot get that yet...

what it should happen for example with name tags...is that it should be a distance at which they are showing. They should show within 10-20 meters but not after that...

[mattxr 9]

I have to agree with everything Grodin has said.

Shooting at a house far away with a crosshair and hitting a certain point with the gun at the hip is impossible in real life.

Now without the cross hair trying that again would be much more accurate. Plus its easy to hit targets at close range with arma. and using the sight for far off targets. Its the way proper clans play and improves your aiming skill greatly.

I know these are chicks but come on look at the way they handle the recoil im sure SF Trained or something.. but they wouldnt be able to hit accrually without using a sight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHs9ko9VvxU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3epRxoj0Yuk

[opteryx 1562]

Celery, why did you derail this thread with your own subjective opinion of what is deemed as realistic? I believe the topic starter asked if there was any way of filtering of the various arcade aid features on servers, not your personal opinion of realism.

[tomcat_ 0]

Celery, why did you derail this thread with your own subjective opinion of what is deemed as realistic? I believe the topic starter asked if there was any way of filtering of the various arcade aid features on servers, not your personal opinion of realism.

good point...:)

as far as i know there is no way to filter servers that have certain features on or off. Some web sites that are listing servers they have the server settings as regular and veteran. Perhaps that could give you an indication but i believe that even at veteran the crosshair is on unless specifically changed from the admin

[sbsmac 0]

Quote[/b] ]Celery, why did you derail this thread with your own subjective opinion of what is deemed as realistic?

I think Grodin derailed his own thread with his rather tiresome sideswipe at other game-modes...

Quote[/b] ]Any other way to filter these ah-so-usual arcade servers filled with counterstrike/battlefield fans out other than playing only on private servers?

Anyone who's spent any time on this forum could have predicted the result. If he'd simply asked whether there was any way to filter out certain settings he might have got a more productive response.

[opteryx 1562]

Agreed, topic starter shouldn't have aided the derail either. In any case I hope for a patch which will add more detailed server filter, however I see that as unlikely.

[celery 8]

Celery, why did you derail this thread with your own subjective opinion of what is deemed as realistic? I believe the topic starter asked if there was any way of filtering of the various arcade aid features on servers, not your personal opinion of realism.

Following that logic this thread was derailed in the first sentence of the original post. The thread starter gave his own subjective opinion of what he deems as realistic, calling users of various aids arcade/BF2/CS fans which on this forum is the worst insult somebody can get. And since it's quite obvious that there is no way of filtering out these lowly arcade servers, why not talk about the other things the thread starter so bluntly expressed.

To continue the debate on the crosshair, surely there is no way to accurately depict unaimed shooting without using virtual equipment to play the game. As for now you either have it easier or harder than in real life and I along with most others prefer the easier way for the sake of fluent and enjoyable gameplay, although you should note that easy isn't synonomous with unrealistic.

The most realistic option would be to have the cursor shown without the aiming bead. That way you'd have an idea where you're aiming but the exact point of impact is open for guessing. But since that option is missing, the crosshair is the most widely accepted option (9/10 according to OP) within the realism community, which pretty much includes everyone who plays ArmA.

[mattxr 9]

the crosshair is the most widely accepted option (9/10 according to OP) within the realism community, which pretty much includes everyone who plays ArmA.

I just cant see that being true. Everyone i knw who plays arma realistically says they prefer them off. Due to the fact its more realistic.

And i must admit, you play this game fast you dont need a crosshair anyways.. well i dont anyways. And the majortiy of people say they dont.

When people tell me they need a crosshair i call them noobs

[celery 8]

I just cant see that being true. Everyone i knw who plays arma realistically says they prefer them off. Due to the fact its more realistic.

Since your opinion is that crosshair off is more realistic, it makes sense that those you deem realism players prefer having it off. And of course those who like to show their hardcore tac-gamer attitude tend to think that all aids make the game easier and thus unrealistic and less "tac". To me every ArmA player is a realism player, I can't think why a so-called CS player would torture himself with a realistic tactical shooter that is the only of its kind.

[daikan 1]

getting back on topic, i think what we need are more filter options in the server browser, at least the game mode (regular/veteran) would have been very useful...

however, i doubt anything will be done about this by BIS.

but maybe somebody who knows how to poll gamespy data directly can come up with a nifty tool?

[MEDICUS 0]

getting back on topic, i think what we need are more filter options in the server browser, at least the game mode (regular/veteran) would have been very useful...

however, i doubt anything will be done about this by BIS.

but maybe somebody who knows how to poll gamespy data directly can come up with a nifty tool?

A Tool like his (OFP-Watch style or something like that) would really be sweet.

The question is, if there's a way to get the needed information/data from the server.

.... and to add something to the "discussion:

I play without crosshair. I just don't like this white peace of something flying arround in front of me

So why are you trying to convince someone here if it's good or bad, realistic or unrealistic ... people will play the way they like (inasmuch they have the choice) ... that's it.

MfG Medicus

[Grodin 0]

The most realistic option would be to have the cursor shown without the aiming bead. That way you'd have an idea where you're aiming but the exact point of impact is open for guessing.

Agree on this. Any modders hearing us?

However my opinion still is that player does have an idea where hes pointing hes gun even without the reticule, as long as floating is disabled.

Most people i play with agree that its not that hard to hit most targets in close quarters, its very much possible to clear most small towns without iron sights nor the aiming reticule.

But if you want to have floating enabled, and still hit most things near you without iron sights, some kind of reticule is needed..